Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

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:+:MrTT:+: said:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...d-dead-in-new-york-could-be-victim-of/1148049

Last week, authorities identified one of the victims: Megan Waterman from Scarborough, Maine. Two others along with Costello were identified Monday as Maureen Brainard-Barnes of Norwich, Conn., and Melissa Barthelemy of Erie County, N.Y.

One from Maine, One from Conn. One from New york and one from Florida.
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What started out as a simply missing persons report. Turned into a methodical and calculating murder after they were discovered wrapped in burlap on a beach.

image.JPG

Jessica Taylor

And I took a peak at the others found. I wont say for sure she is connected to the 4. But just from looking at her photo and being about a mile east from the 4 she may be related even though she was dismembered. I am just staying concentrated on the four in burlap, but just wanted to through this out there now for a future discussion if we end up going that way for one reason or the other.
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Jessica Taylor (and the other dismembered victims), you can find in the Manorville Butcher thread.
 
Peter Brendt said:
Because this is "GB4 ONLY" to make sure, it's not taken over by the SG foul play and thus give an opportunity to discuss the GB4.
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Exactly! And We don't have a GB-4 only thread (yet it seems like this one already is being hijacked).
 
inspctrgadget said:
I think this would help the search for the perp, but would utterly destroy any chance for a conviction. Its not what you know, its what you can prove. If you have a positive voice lineup where MB's sister can positively ID the SK, that's powerful evidence that can be used against the perp. Without any DNA or eyewitnesses, the killer's voice is perhaps the only evidence that we've got. Releasing this would destroy any opportunity for a voice lineup. In this case, we don't have any other evidence like floppy disks, etc. At least not that we're aware of.
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Of course, I'm not sure, which of the following list was already messed up by SCPD, but technically:

  • Traffic cam tapes would show him in the time frame of 72 hours after the disappearance of each victim show entering the islands (passing the causeway) and about two hours later on the way back.
  • Traffic cams would also show him around May 15th of each year and probably around Sept. 30th of each year on the same trip.
  • He would also have drawn (or should have) for occasionally rolling along slow the expressway near to the dump site.
  • Since he is probably still killing and has just a new dump site, not far from the old one, his vehicle could still hold forensic evidence like DNA traces from victims later Amber Lynn Costello.
  • He would have a place either in the outskirts of NYC or LI near NYC, not too far from the Expressway out to the islands, which he uses as kill site. Witnesses would have mentioned he can get pretty upset if someone steps in there.
  • In this place, in a box, a shelf or hidden behind a little drywall, from the entrance seen on the left, there would be a small bag or chest with his souvenirs. Those souvenirs would include maybe jewelry and IDs of the victims but most likely cell phones and stills or video of the act of killing and if he found any way to be in this pictures during the kill, he will be in there.
  • LE didn't release it, but I doubt, the victims were manually strangled. So somewhere would be a cord or belt in this kill site which still holds DNA traces in form of skin cells of several victims.
  • Witnesses would maybe also noticed him to have burned "something" and in the back of his kill site or another place he owns, forensics will find remains of ashes from burned clothes.

And that's only what comes to my mind on the top of my head. IF they get him, it wouldn't be hard to make a case at all, especially, since there is a good chance, he will talk anyway. The world needs to know his story, does it?
 
PreciousDust said:
Geez, would they be easier to interest, and do they even have any jurisdiction if no federal investigation has been launched? Probably my "plan", as of right now, it to get back to my contact if some period of time elapses without hearing anything, and try to get his guidance on any next steps. Off-topic, and not to be too "interior", but part of this process for me, over the last few weeks, has been trying to understand what my own motivations might be here, trying to figure out what keeps drawing me to search down obscure avenues to answer questions that only I'm asking. As I get to "know" the POI better, I almost "relate" to him in some way - not to the awfulness of his crimes, of course, but to the ups and downs of his life outside of that; my ex-wife, who has read lots of mysteries, says that's common! What I've pretty much come up with in terms of why I'm spending time on this, besides the obvious altruistic goal of helping to bring closure to the families of victims, is that I'm looking to vindicate myself for sitting on my butt for over a year with too much time on my hands; I'm suing my ex-employer (and believe me, I'll win, and they deserve to lose), and it's been difficult finding new employment while that process goes on. It's somewhat distressing to think I'd like to somehow see myself lauded for helping to solve something so nasty and brutish, and I try to keep perspective on that by my full knowledge that, if ever interviewed, I'd just stammer and stare at the camera like a dolt.
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Once again your story is interesting but off-topic. Maybe start a new discussion topic or move it over here;

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134806"]The Rumor Mill -- unsubstantiated, yet possible relevant information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Peter Brendt said:
...overly pious disgust for prostitutes.
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Although I'm unfamiliar with general SK profiles, I can certainly understand how a person who's been indoctrinated with severe dogma may wind up sexually repressed and scornful towards those who flaunt their sexuality. I wonder if there could also be a different kind of SK, though, almost of an opposite nature outwardly than the repressed SK, one who through behavior and occupational choices actively promotes amorality, yet also harbors resentment to women in general; publicly he might seem to be almost celebrating women with uninhibited natures, but privately he objectifies and demeans them (and, potentially, does worse than that). Maybe that type of killer would be an "organized" one, able to efficiently compartmentalize his dual natures so that he can continue to function. And, in that example, perhaps a flash-point for him might be some deep-seated conflict he has about his mother, a conflict he doesn't understand and which tears away at him, and from which he finds some short-term relief through killing. I'd think that if that "type" of SK exists, he could be hard to spot (and catch).
 
Peter Brendt said:
[*]Traffic cam tapes would show him...
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Covered elsewhere I"m sure but, besides the different schedules that an owner of a home on Oak Beach or along Captree could keep without necessarily appearing on those cam tapes at expected times, what would prevent a boat from making the trip from anywhere along the mainland from, say, Lindenhurst to Bay Shore? It's a short trip, Great South Bay is shallow and usually calm - even a small boat would have no problem with it. Is the impediment that it's unrealistic that bodies could be dragged from the Gilgo (bayside) shore to where they were found?
 
PreciousDust said:
Although I'm unfamiliar with general SK profiles, I can certainly understand how a person who's been indoctrinated with severe dogma may wind up sexually repressed and scornful towards those who flaunt their sexuality. I wonder if there could also be a different kind of SK, though, almost of an opposite nature outwardly than the repressed SK, one who through behavior and occupational choices actively promotes amorality, yet also harbors resentment to women in general; publicly he might seem to be almost celebrating women with uninhibited natures, but privately he objectifies and demeans them (and, potentially, does worse than that). Maybe that type of killer would be an "organized" one, able to efficiently compartmentalize his dual natures so that he can continue to function. And, in that example, perhaps a flash-point for him might be some deep-seated conflict he has about his mother, a conflict he doesn't understand and which tears away at him, and from which he finds some short-term relief through killing. I'd think that if that "type" of SK exists, he could be hard to spot (and catch).
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Well, in fact, a lot of them has been caught. This description fits for example Bundy (as half-organized variant) or Ridgway (as low organized variant). It's not too rare, kind of garden variety sexual psychopath.
 
PreciousDust said:
Covered elsewhere I"m sure but, besides the different schedules that an owner of a home on Oak Beach or along Captree could keep without necessarily appearing on those cam tapes at expected times, what would prevent a boat from making the trip from anywhere along the mainland from, say, Lindenhurst to Bay Shore? It's a short trip, Great South Bay is shallow and usually calm - even a small boat would have no problem with it. Is the impediment that it's unrealistic that bodies could be dragged from the Gilgo (bayside) shore to where they were found?
Click to expand...

If he would have a boat (and keep in mind, money doesn't necessarily mean to be able to use a boat), he would have sunk the bodies off the beach somewhere. His dump site is a drive-by type, means, any defined spot in the ocean would serve as well. Unless the SK has no boat or is for example plagued enough by seasickness to not enjoy those revisits at sea.
 
I think it got established in these threads on this forum that Amber Costello refused to meet with this guy a few weeks before she finally agreed to. So she had the "creep factor" (MOO) going with him. He also called her three times that day before she agreed to meet with him, despite any "creep factor" (IMO) she felt.

Part of it was the $1,500 he promised her, and maybe part of it was the promise of drugs (MOO) but I'm still stuck on WHAT he could have said to her that would convince her to leave without her cell phone. She was dressed in jeans and a hoodie and left at 10:30 pm, so she wasn't expecting some fancy soiree (IMO). Short of an event that was celebrity filled or politically filled, what could have been said to her to leave her phone behind????

ETA: Any ideas about this??
 
Seajay said:
I think it got established in these threads on this forum that Amber Costello refused to meet with this guy a few weeks before she finally agreed to. So she had the "creep factor" (MOO) going with him. He also called her three times that day before she agreed to meet with him, despite any "creep factor" (IMO) she felt.

Part of it was the $1,500 he promised her, and maybe part of it was the promise of drugs (MOO) but I'm still stuck on WHAT he could have said to her that would convince her to leave without her cell phone. She was dressed in jeans and a hoodie and left at 10:30 pm, so she wasn't expecting some fancy soiree (IMO). Short of an event that was celebrity filled or politically filled, what could have been said to her to leave her phone behind????

ETA: Any ideas about this??
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The first problem is, we only have David Schaller's word for that and when he described that for the first time, I think, the statement of Akeem Cruz in the Megan Waterman case was already in the media.
The second problem is, it appears as if Amber Lynn Costello had no cell phone. The one in her name was usually handled by David Schaller, who made the appointments for her. Which essentially is the same situation, I would also expect in the case of Megan Waterman.
See, what is the problem of a pimp, whose girls get killed? Reputation loss. It makes it harder to replace those girls.
 
Peter Brendt said:
Just another question: We don't talk here about a guy with a certain affinity to aquariums and fish tanks? Because if so, we went through this rumor mill already a while ago. Just to make sure!
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Egads, no; I was familiar with that particular story a few weeks back, probably on the first day I started looking into who was being touted as potential suspects. The only place I've found where my POI was implicated was a blogger's guess that my POI is the SK, which I ran across within a half hour of starting searches. And, since I forwarded that link to my contact (who, in turn, forwarded it to LE), I'm waiting for a nasty email from that blogger, or to be roasted on his blog (it was an old entry and I doubt anyone else would have written him about it recently, so I'm sure he'd guess I was the blabbermouth). It does make me wonder that I haven't heard something from that blogger by now, as you'd think (or, at least, I'd think) that LE could easily do the same thing I did, i.e. write him and ask what he's talking about.
 
PreciousDust said:
Egads, no; I was familiar with that particular story a few weeks back, probably on the first day I started looking into who was being touted as potential suspects. The only place I've found where my POI was implicated was a blogger's guess that my POI is the SK, which I ran across within a half hour of starting searches. And, since I forwarded that link to my contact (who, in turn, forwarded it to LE), I'm waiting for a nasty email from that blogger, or to be roasted on his blog (it was an old entry and I doubt anyone else would have written him about it recently, so I'm sure he'd guess I was the blabbermouth). It does make me wonder that I haven't heard something from that blogger by now, as you'd think (or, at least, I'd think) that LE could easily do the same thing I did, i.e. write him and ask what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Thanks, just wanted to make sure.
 
Peter Brendt said:
I don't know if there are sex scene raves, but that doesn't mean there aren't. Merely that I don't know.
The problem I have with the "homicidal john" theory is, it doesn't fit on any level. As soon, as you have two different last johns or one of the girls "off-duty", you need to construct a lot to hold upright that theory. For example, Maureen was last heard off from that bus terminal. To make the homicidal john happen, you need to construct, she decided, against what was already her outspoken intention, to take on another client. This client had to happen by chance a serial killer in the making, who has already developed a fully blown signature, which means, also his hunting behavior was fully developed ... only, this one night, he had to be for unknown reasons under way in a car to meet by chance Maureen. You see, how far this construction has to go to bring all four under one hat. So I don't believe in a homicidal john. And if it would be one, we would have heard since a while from other Craigslist escorts, who had this strange wannabe john, they rejected, the whole works as usual in similar cases.
Thus, their appointment book wouldn't help us. However, you can bet on him making video or stills not only while killing them but also before.
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BBM

... and another girl was last heard from when she was at the hotel along the same stretch of road as another body. In fact, two women were last heard from at that hotel. There's no explanation for what happened to them other than one was picked up at the hotel and the other was picked up hitchhiking outside the hotel (perhaps she figured it out too late and accidentally stepped into a hitchhiking vehicle driven by the guy). Perhaps he asks them to phone him from public places just before he picks them up, kind of seduces them to cast caution to the wind and meet him (like the one that left her purse and cell phone at home), ... perhaps he promises to wine, dine and pamper them for life - sort of rags to riches tale. Perhaps he moved the abductions closer to home because he got away with it for so long, and then became more cautious and moved them away from home, again. Perhaps he experimented with a young family with one child - posing as a transvestite. Maybe the man in that scenario is someone he knew.

I think he's homicidal and that he has presented himself as a "john", or even a transvestite, but I suspect that he's actually a sexual sadist with a strong sociopathic history that schemes to trap women and torment them for as long as it pleases him. His "anonymous calls" from highly populated areas in NYC are like the last calls from the call-girls - populated places (like hotels and bus terminals) and no way to remember one person from another.

One person ... but probably one that has a normal routine and isn't even suspected. I think he's probably educated and smooth with a convincing voice and caring demeanor. I think he's a con man with sociopathic tendencies ... his friends probably see him for who he is, but assume that he's harmless and wouldn't challenge him without care (possible position of authority).

One of the sisters had to endure a description of everything he did to her, called from the sister's cell phone (something like 7-8 calls in total) ... which leads me to believe that there is a sexual toture component.

Just my 2 cents.
 
otto said:
BBM

... and another girl was last heard from when she was at the hotel along the same stretch of road as another body. In fact, two women were last heard from at that hotel. There's no explanation for what happened to them other than one was picked up at the hotel and the other was picked up hitchhiking outside the hotel (perhaps she figured it out too late and accidentally stepped into a hitchhiking vehicle driven by the guy). Perhaps he asks them to phone him from public places just before he picks them up, kind of seduces them to cast caution to the wind and meet him (like the one that left her purse and cell phone at home), ... perhaps he promises to wine, dine and pamper them for life - sort of rags to riches tale. Perhaps he moved the abductions closer to home because he got away with it for so long, and then became more cautious and moved them away from home, again. Perhaps he experimented with a young family with one child - posing as a transvestite. Maybe the man in that scenario is someone he knew.

I think he's homicidal and that he has presented himself as a "john", or even a transvestite, but I suspect that he's actually a sexual sadist with a strong sociopathic history that schemes to trap women and torment them for as long as it pleases him. His "anonymous calls" from highly populated areas in NYC are like the last calls from the call-girls - populated places (like hotels and bus terminals) and no way to remember one person from another.

One person ... but probably one that has a normal routine and isn't even suspected. I think he's probably educated and smooth with a convincing voice and caring demeanor. I think he's a con man with sociopathic tendencies ... his friends probably see him for who he is, but assume that he's harmless and wouldn't challenge him without care (possible position of authority).

Just my 2 cents.
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I'm not sure, but this sounds as if you mean psychopath every time, you say sociopath. And of course, a position of power or authority in the area would mean, he would be there all year - which is contradictory to the concentration of the known murders in the summer months. If he would be there all year, there would be more bodies and all around the year.
By the way, you are aware, that Holiday Inn in Hauppauge has at least a fifteen year history as operation base for prostitutes serving customers in the Long Island area? So a certain fluctuation is inevitable. And to hope LISK gets sloppy is exactly that, mere hope. He is meticulous, he thinks things through. Because that is, how he has organized his life, not only his murders. He is well aware, he got away because he is smarter than SCPD. So the last thing he is doing now, is to relax. Because he considers his qualities of thinking things through as the reason, he is smarter. His way of thinking is what gives him his arrogance, what he is proud of. So why give that up?
 
Peter Brendt said:
I'm not sure, but this sounds as if you mean psychopath every time, you say sociopath. And of course, a position of power or authority in the area would mean, he would be there all year - which is contradictory to the concentration of the known murders in the summer months. If he would be there all year, there would be more bodies and all around the year.

By the way, you are aware, that Holiday Inn in Hauppauge has at least a fifteen year history as operation base for prostitutes serving customers in the Long Island area? So a certain fluctuation is inevitable. And to hope LISK gets sloppy is exactly that, mere hope. He is meticulous, he thinks things through. Because that is, how he has organized his life, not only his murders. He is well aware, he got away because he is smarter than SCPD. So the last thing he is doing now, is to relax. Because he considers his qualities of thinking things through as the reason, he is smarter. His way of thinking is what gives him his arrogance, what he is proud of. So why give that up?
Click to expand...

I mean sociopath. There's a film called The Vanishing. It's by a Dutch film producer (don't waste your time with the US version) and portrays the sociopath that I mean. The psychopath is typically publically violent, not a man in power. Men in power can be sociopaths. They are cruel, but they succeed in management. I think the perp here is a sociopath that conducts a normal life around his obsession with torturing victims.

Sociopath and psychopath were put under the same umbrella of antisocial personality disorder about 15 years ago, but in my mind, they are still separate.

A position of power and authoriity does not mean that LI is his primary home, only that he has ties to the area ... just like he apparently has ties to NYC.

I suggest that he moved the murders close to home only for a short time, and the last body to be discovered - 1-300 yards from the road - was an urgent decision, not a planeed one. I think he got too close to being caught more than once. I think he enoys a bohemian lifestyle.
 
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