Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

otto said:
I mean sociopath. There's a film called The Vanishing. It's by a Dutch film producer (don't waste your time with the US version) and portrays the sociopath that I mean. The psychopath is typically publically violent, not a man in power. Men in power can be sociopaths. They are cruel, but they succeed in management. I think the perp here is a sociopath that conducts a normal life around his obsession with torturing victims.

Sociopath and psychopath were put under the same umbrella of antisocial personality disorder about 15 years ago, but in my mind, they are still separate.

Well, at least the separation thing is a good thing. My problem is, a psychopath is fueled by rage and an feeling of entitlement while the sociopath is just emotionally distanced and has no emotional understanding of social behavior. So in a way,

psychopath=sociopath+rage.

The reason, why I thought, you meant actually psychopath is, those murders indicate underlying rage. Which is quite not the sociopath's but the psychopath's trait.

otto said:
A position of power and authoriity does not mean that LI is his primary home, only that he has ties to the area ... just like he apparently has ties to NYC.

My problem is, to imagine, how would someone come in such a position if he is NOT there all the time. He would have to stay in the area just to keep up that position. So to me, being 8-9 months of the year not there and a position like that sounds contradictory.

otto said:
I suggest that he moved the murders close to home only for a short time, and the last body to be discovered - 1-300 yards from the road - was an urgent decision, not a planeed one. I think he got too close to being caught more than once. I think he enoys a bohemian lifestyle.

What indicates to you, Amber Lynn Costello's murder wasn't planned? There are no differences as far as I followed the media. She was dropped there the same way as the other three, wrapped in burlap, about the same distance from the road. Unless you want to inject Shannan Gilbert here, but then you are in the wrong thread and we can ask a mod to move your posts in the SG threads.

Theforeigner · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Well, technically, since Megan was most of the time in NYC, I think, Bronx too and she and Cruz visited LI only twice a month (as in about all two weeks) to meet with clients, it's more like 62.5% or higher and if you calculate in Amber Lynn Costello lived basically in the middle between the LI scene on those islands and the club scene of Manhattan, it's probably at least 75% chance, the connection is NYC. The point, I don't know yet, is is it Bronx or rather Manhattan, the private club scene. Remember Megan offered femdom, that's an entirely different client profile than for the other three. The only place, they are near to each other appears to me the club area between Hell's Kitchen and 45th or 46th Street. Maureen. But then, I hesitate to send one of our locals to the whip clubs to sleuth around ...

Peter you have sevral times claimed that Megan waterman offered "femdom" in her adds, and you seem to base some of your thories on that.
May 30, 2012 I aske you to please provide some backup for this claim, which you have not done so far, not that I have been able to find anyway (and I have used the search function here on WS trying to find any back up on this issue from you, with no luck).

The thing is, I have access to at least TWO of her ads, one with her picture, and in neither of thise adds MG offer any sexual services whatsoever that resemble "femdom".

In hope you will now provide info/backup on where you found that "femdom" information.

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

Theforeigner said:
Peter you have sevral times claimed that Megan waterman offered "femdom" in her adds, and you seem to base some of your thories on that.
May 30, 2012 I aske you to please provide some backup for this claim, which you have not done so far, not that I have been able to find anyway (and I have used the search function here on WS trying to find any back up on this issue from you, with no luck).

The thing is, I have access to at least TWO of her ads, one with her picture, and in neither of thise adds MG offer any sexual services whatsoever that resemble "femdom".

In hope you will now provide info/backup on where you found that "femdom" information.

As usual, I recommend, you read through the old threads, we played that out like a dozen times and I won't repeat this every time till the last article is deleted from the web. And the original links were posted about 18 months ago and not even from me.

Theforeigner · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
As usual, I recommend, you read through the old threads, we played that out like a dozen times and I won't repeat this every time till the last article is deleted from the web. And the original links were posted about 18 months ago and not even from me.

As I posted:
"I have used the search function here on WS trying to find any back up on this issue from you, with no luck"

So I DID what you asked for, but there is nothing to be found on the
"femdom" issue, NO link or quote ect that say that MG offered anything like "femdom". Try it yourself and you will see that I´m correct.

And I have to say that I find it odd that you so often think that those who ask you to back up your claims have to "read through the old threads" insted of you providing the backup.

SO, I hope that you reconsider and search for that information since you apparently know that the info in question is to be found in " the old threads".

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

Theforeigner said:
As I posted:
"I have used the search function here on WS trying to find any back up on this issue from you, with no luck"

So I DID what you asked for, but there is nothing to be found on the
"femdom" issue, NO link or quote ect that say that MG offered anything like "femdom". Try it yourself and you will see that I´m correct.

And I have to say that I find it odd that you so often think that those who ask you to back up your claims have to "read through the old threads" insted of you providing the backup.

SO, I hope that you reconsider and search for that information since you apparently know that the info in question is to be found in " the old threads".

Okay, I reconsider for the umpteenth time. But since you obviously didn't understand the meaning if "femdom" as in female domintaion, BDSM, I help you out. The original information I refer to is in the "possible victims" thread, posted by Redbird as post #9. There it says:

July 12, 2009 MELISSA BATHELEMY DOD 7/12/2009 vanished from Bronx (Underhill Ave.) sitting on curb; apt w/5 cats(Sunday)/ got call from Massapequa. LI. Eight days after Melissa's disappearance, her sister, Amanda, began to receive calls, The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone.
Mother said they received five more calls, the last one on August 26, 2009. Ms. Barthelemy saw a client and then deposited $900 into her bank, around the time she vanished, she checked her voice mail from Massapequa, L.I. July 10, 2009, she checked her voice mail from two motels in Massapequa, a Budget Inn and a Best Western.

They traced a second phone that belonged to her to an ex-con who said he picked it up after a tussle between hookers in Times Square orchestrated by a pimp. Boyfriend Blaze, aka Terry, Escort Agency: James Bond Entertainment as Chloe I found a single ad for Melissa posting as chloe, under the one number. She advertised various services to include Domination/BDSM & Fetish/Role Play. She advertised as out call only, charging $100/15 min, $150 half hour, $250 hour, and $1000 overnight. Her pictures indicated she did car dates as well. Earlier that evening, the blond beauty told her boyfriend that she might be going to Long Island, a frequent haunt of hers. She regularly hung out there with a girlfriend who also worked as an online escort, as well as at the home of a regular client. Her boyfriend said he would oftentimes pick her up from the john's house. "She had some older man she was chummy with." Eight days after Melissa's disappearance, her sister, Amanda, began to receive calls, The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone.

So, that's the original post to which I refer. If you doubt Redbird's information, I suggest, you ask the original poster.

Mountain_Kat · Jul 10, 2012

Theforeigner said:
Peter you have sevral times claimed that Megan waterman offered "femdom" in her adds, and you seem to base some of your thories on that.
May 30, 2012 I aske you to please provide some backup for this claim, which you have not done so far, not that I have been able to find anyway (and I have used the search function here on WS trying to find any back up on this issue from you, with no luck).

The thing is, I have access to at least TWO of her ads, one with her picture, and in neither of thise adds MG offer any sexual services whatsoever that resemble "femdom".

In hope you will now provide info/backup on where you found that "femdom" information.

Every ad I've seen for Megan listed her as "vanilla", meaning a straight forward sexual experience.

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

Mountain_Kat said:
Every ad I've seen for Megan listed her as "vanilla", meaning a straight forward sexual experience.

Well, you COULD read the post right before your post ... that could have saved us the repeat.

Mountain_Kat · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Well, you COULD read the post right before your post ... that could have saved us the repeat.

I did read it. Megan Waterman is not Melissa Barthelemy. Megan listed herself as vanilla. I respectfully suggest that YOU try to keep your names straight in order to avoid confusion.

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

Mountain_Kat said:
I did read it. Megan Waterman is not Melissa Barthelemy. Megan listed herself as vanilla. I respectfully suggest that YOU try to keep your names straight in order to avoid confusion.

So fine, you're right and the fact still stands, one had another kind of clientele. Thus the profile still stays intact.

mmmaisflying · Jul 10, 2012

at mountain kat prove to me megan went by vanilla I know her name she used and it was not vanilla

Mountain_Kat · Jul 10, 2012

mmmaisflying said:
at mountain kat prove to me megan went by vanilla I know her name she used and it was not vanilla

No no, I meant her services would be considered "vanilla", meaning a straight forward sexual experience. No bdsm or the like listed in her ads.

As far as working names (verified by pics), the only ones I've been able to find are Lexy, Tiffany and Jasmine.

PreciousDust · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
And to hope LISK gets sloppy is exactly that, mere hope. He is meticulous, he thinks things through. Because that is, how he has organized his life, not only his murders.

Meticulous but also subject to missteps through his urges, and his own personal failings. The calls to MB's sister may have given him some sick jollies, but they were dangerous for him. I don't know if it's discredited or not, but the "Timeline for MB" page here states that MB's bf, Jonny Terry, received many calls as well, "probably from the killer", of whom Terry said "most of the time he seemed drunk". Regardless of whether the GB4 killer had killed others previously, I can see a scenario where, until late 2008 or so, he'd operated along the fringes of the world that sex workers live in - but where the workers led desperate lives, addled by drug abuse and mental illness, the SK calculatingly and efficiently exploited the workers for his own purposes. But come 2008 or so, for whatever reason, everything started to go off the rails for the SK, and he started using drugs after a long period of abstinence. Thus, of course, opening the door much wider to potential mistakes.

Peter Brendt · Jul 10, 2012

PreciousDust said:
Meticulous but also subject to missteps through his urges, and his own personal failings. The calls to MB's sister may have given him some sick jollies, but they were dangerous for him. I don't know if it's discredited or not, but the "Timeline for MB" page here states that MB's bf, Jonny Terry, received many calls as well, "probably from the killer", of whom Terry said "most of the time he seemed drunk". Regardless of whether the GB4 killer had killed others previously, I can see a scenario where, until late 2008 or so, he'd operated along the fringes of the world that sex workers live in - but where the workers led desperate lives, addled by drug abuse and mental illness, the SK calculatingly and efficiently exploited the workers for his own purposes. But come 2008 or so, for whatever reason, everything started to go off the rails for the SK, and he started using drugs after a long period of abstinence. Thus, of course, opening the door much wider to potential mistakes.

I can't see any hints on a spiraling down in his behavior. His 2007 murder was technically flawless and left LE with almost nothing. No 2008 murder, 2009 is exactly the same as 2007 only the phone calls come to it. Which by all means were a show of control and deception and in 2010, he ramped up to 2 victims. This is basically consistent with most SKs relative early in their career. So, where is the hint of sudden drug abuse or anything out of control? I don't see it.

nugzter · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
I can't see any hints on a spiraling down in his behavior. His 2007 murder was technically flawless and left LE with almost nothing. No 2008 murder, 2009 is exactly the same as 2007 only the phone calls come to it. Which by all means were a show of control and deception and in 2010, he ramped up to 2 victims. This is basically consistent with most SKs relative early in their career. So, where is the hint of sudden drug abuse or anything out of control? I don't see it.

And to add to what Peter said I would suggest there would have been more murders if his dump site had not been found and spread in the MSM.
ALC was killed in early Sept and does not fit his June/July pattern (GB4). Why Sept? Ramping up seems good. Any other reasons?

Theforeigner · Jul 10, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Okay, I reconsider for the umpteenth time. But since you obviously didn't understand the meaning if "femdom" as in female domintaion, BDSM, I help you out. The original information I refer to is in the "possible victims" thread, posted by Redbird as post #9. There it says:

July 12, 2009 MELISSA BATHELEMY DOD 7/12/2009 vanished from Bronx (Underhill Ave.) sitting on curb; apt w/5 cats(Sunday)/ got call from Massapequa. LI. Eight days after Melissa's disappearance, her sister, Amanda, began to receive calls, The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone.
Mother said they received five more calls, the last one on August 26, 2009. Ms. Barthelemy saw a client and then deposited $900 into her bank, around the time she vanished, she checked her voice mail from Massapequa, L.I. July 10, 2009, she checked her voice mail from two motels in Massapequa, a Budget Inn and a Best Western.

They traced a second phone that belonged to her to an ex-con who said he picked it up after a tussle between hookers in Times Square orchestrated by a pimp. Boyfriend Blaze, aka Terry, Escort Agency: James Bond Entertainment as Chloe I found a single ad for Melissa posting as chloe, under the one number. She advertised various services to include Domination/BDSM & Fetish/Role Play. She advertised as out call only, charging $100/15 min, $150 half hour, $250 hour, and $1000 overnight. Her pictures indicated she did car dates as well. Earlier that evening, the blond beauty told her boyfriend that she might be going to Long Island, a frequent haunt of hers. She regularly hung out there with a girlfriend who also worked as an online escort, as well as at the home of a regular client. Her boyfriend said he would oftentimes pick her up from the john's house. "She had some older man she was chummy with." Eight days after Melissa's disappearance, her sister, Amanda, began to receive calls, The caller ID indicated the call came from Melissa's cellphone.

So, that's the original post to which I refer. If you doubt Redbird's information, I suggest, you ask the original poster.

That is about MELISSA BATHELEMY, NOT Megan Waterman.

Mountain_Kat · Jul 10, 2012

Regarding Melissa: If I'm not mistaken, she checked her voicemail (assuming that required a pin #) from 2 Massapequa hotels on the day she disappeared. A Best Western and I forget which other hotel. What strikes me as odd about this is that if she was picked up by one client, why the hotel change? Just puzzles the heck out of me.

And then we also have one of the phone calls from the killer to Melissa's little sister which was also traced to Massapequa. So, did LISK keep one hotel for himself, and book another for his dirty work? Maybe move around from hotel to hotel in order to avoid detection? But then, that doesn't make sense either if Melissa checked her voicemail from both locations.

Strange.

PreciousDust · Jul 10, 2012

Theforeigner said:
IMO you can´t justify your (stubborn) error ...

What was this?

Peter Brendt said:
So fine, you're right ...

Theforeigner · Jul 10, 2012

PreciousDust said:
What was this?

You forgot that Peter added this:

"and the fact still stands, one had another kind of clientele. Thus the profile still stays intact."

Mountain_Kat · Jul 10, 2012

If you look on google and push pin The Budget Inn, Massapequa (MB) and The Express Holiday Inn (MW), you'll notice that in the very center of the two is the Robert Moses Parkway, leading right back to Captree/Oak Beach.

Interestingly enough, Amber's home also falls between these two locations, and according to DS, she too was asked to meet a client at the Express Holiday Inn in Hauppage (but refused).

West Islip also falls between the locations of these 2 hotels, as does Higbie Discount Liquor And Wine.

Theforeigner · Jul 10, 2012

Mountain_Kat said:
Regarding Melissa: If I'm not mistaken, she checked her voicemail (assuming that required a pin #) from 2 Massapequa hotels on the day she disappeared. A Best Western and I forget which other hotel. What strikes me as odd about this is that if she was picked up by one client, why the hotel change? Just puzzles the heck out of me.

And then we also have one of the phone calls from the killer to Melissa's little sister which was also traced to Massapequa. So, did LISK keep one hotel for himself, and book another for his dirty work? Maybe move around from hotel to hotel in order to avoid detection? But then, that doesn't make sense either if Melissa checked her voicemail from both locations.

Strange.

Here are the two hotels in question:

Budget Inn - Massapequa
400 Carman Mill Road, Massapequa, NY 11758

The Best Western
5080 Sunrise Highway, Massapequa, NY
(516) 541-2000

also this adress for The Best Western
5050 Sunrise Highway, Massapequa Park - (516) 541-2000

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