Alternate Theories

MysticJynx · Jan 22, 2016

This is something I came across while looking to see if there had been any other unknown murders that included a burnt corpse. Thought maybe there could be a serial killer on the loose, What i did come across was this article stemming from a burning of a corpse in Wisconsin. I am not saying that he is suspect or anything. but what I did find interesting was this one comment.

"County investigators along with workers from the Rock County Coroner's office have spent the day at the scene looking for evidence."
This was even before they found the bones on the property.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Police-look-for-missing-teen-229921881.html

He to burned a body in a fire pit behind his home. This may sound morbid, but I wonder what the difference is between the victim in this case and the remains of TH are, if any.

Soulmagent · Jan 22, 2016

MysticJynx said:
This is something I came across while looking to see if there had been any other unknown murders that included a burnt corpse. Thought maybe there could be a serial killer on the loose, What i did come across was this article stemming from a burning of a corpse in Wisconsin. I am not saying that he is suspect or anything. but what I did find interesting was this one comment.

"County investigators along with workers from the Rock County Coroner's office have spent the day at the scene looking for evidence."
This was even before they found the bones on the property.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Police-look-for-missing-teen-229921881.html

He to burned a body in a fire pit behind his home. This may sound morbid, but I wonder what the difference is between the victim in this case and the remains of TH are, if any.

They say he had to fed the fire for 2 days.

Brookita478 · Jan 23, 2016

Madeleine74 said:
AC sure was a busy boy.

- Taking a car key that was TH's valet Toyota key.
- Getting whoever gave him the key to stay silent about it for 10 years so far
- Removing 2 license plates from TH's SUV
- Crumpling the license plates
- Putting those license plates into a locked station wagon that was near SA's trailer
- Wiping TH's key down and getting SA skin cells via sweat on the key
- Managing to not get any fibers from finding something with SA's sweat on it and rubbing it on said key nor possible DNA from anyone else, nor fibers from his own clothing.
- Putting the key somewhere that it won't be found until he and Lenk are ready for it to be found in SA's bedroom.

the car being locked is irrelevant. It could have been unlocked prior to the plates being thrown in and then locked

Soulmagent · Jan 23, 2016

MysticJynx said:
This testimony "Guess where I was sent" was given by her Mentor and Partner TP. TP also state he called TH on Tuesday, Wed, And Thurs, and her VM was full every time. Could he have been the one deleting voice mails? It is TP who calls TH's mom that Thursday that got the ball rolling in her missing persons report. I notice he is very what is the word I want to use. Impressed, but more than that. He sees her as he sees himself, passionate about her job. He hasn't see passion like that in a long time. He even hired her on, where it sounds like after internships he does not normally do. He eventually gives her some space in his studio for her to start her Photography by Teresa business. Do you think he had some sort of CRUSH on TH? If so would there have been reason to ask him for his alibi the day of Oct 31. He mentions that TH does these shot on Monday usually when his and her studio is closed. He states he was concerned that she had taken on Auto Trader and what was just Mondays was becoming Thursday and Saturday shots as well. He was concerned she was burning the candle at both ends. Could he have been Jealous of all the business she was getting that was taking her away from the office they shared? He testified to her getting what seemed to be like harassing phone calls that TH seemed to be ignoring. He was all prepared to tell the person off if she would only give him the number. That is a little weird to me too.

YES!
About the crush .
The Tuesday call, and the VM was full? He called her Tuesday Morning...The VM was full. It was Tuesday at 8 am when the VM were deleted.
I think some import stuff is highlighted in his testimony.
Even without the crushy like stuff.
1. He was the first to become concerned about her whereabouts.Kicking off the investigation.
2. He called her the same morning the Voice mails were deleted before she was missing because he was concerned.
3. He is the only person to report she mentioned the Avery Property .
4. He is the only person to report Harassing phone calls.

Of course he should have been looked at at least, not that I think he is involved but these are investigation worthy for sure.

stephsb · Jan 23, 2016

I thought the voicemails were deleted the 3rd, can you point me to the part where you saw it was the 1st? (I definitely could be wrong, but that was the impression Strang was giving during cross of Michael)

He called her initially because she didn't show up for work, on a day he would have seen her. He called again because she missed the BMG meeting, and then on Thursday because her work was being delivered, and she was on top of that, she would have let someone know at that point if she was sick.

The receptionist at Auto Trader also had conversations about the Avery Property w. Teresa.

He was clearly the person it appears she spent the most time around on a day to day basis, so it doesn't surprise me he kicked off the investigation. Tbh, I'm surprised her parents or brother or roommate, who saw or talked to her every other day, waited 4 days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Soulmagent · Jan 23, 2016

stephsb said:
I thought the voicemails were deleted the 3rd, can you point me to the part where you saw it was the 1st? (I definitely could be wrong, but that was the impression Strang was giving during cross of Michael)

He called her initially because she didn't show up for work, on a day he would have seen her. He called again because she missed the BMG meeting, and then on Thursday because her work was being delivered, and she was on top of that, she would have let someone know at that point if she was sick.

The receptionist at Auto Trader also had conversations about the Avery Property w. Teresa.

He was clearly the person it appears she spent the most time around on a day to day basis, so it doesn't surprise me he kicked off the investigation. Tbh, I'm surprised her parents or brother or roommate, who saw or talked to her every other day, waited 4 days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think I am completely mixed up at the moment. about the deleted call, I thought it was deleted on the second. Either way I was wrong about Tuesday.

Sinsaint · Jan 23, 2016

Soulmagent said:
I think I am completely mixed up at the moment. about the deleted call, I thought it was deleted on the second. Either way I was wrong about Tuesday.

Buting argued outside of the jury's presence that Halbach's voicemail was accessed by someone on November 2nd roughly 8:00 a.m. His contention is whoever accessed her voicemail on that day was most likely the person who deleted the voicemails. Since Halbach wasn't even reported missing until the third it leaves the door wide open that only one person would have had a reason to call and delete those messages before she was known to be missing and that's the person that murdered her.

MysticJynx · Jan 23, 2016

Sinsaint said:
Buting argued outside of the jury's presence that Halbach's voicemail was accessed by someone on November 2nd roughly 8:00 a.m. His contention is whoever accessed her voicemail on that day was most likely the person who deleted the voicemails. Since Halbach wasn't even reported missing until the third it leaves the door wide open that only one person would have had a reason to call and delete those messages before she was known to be missing and that's the person that murdered her.

Correct me if I am wrong but I also read that the judge would think about allowing it. However no one ever seems to come back to it, was a lot of stuff going on with entering into evidence the States Summaries of the calls. With the 4:35 reading 00 on the summary but his bill actually saying it was an 11 second call. I read and saw that KK tried to just keep getting this evidence entered and they seem to forget about asking about that deleted call. All though I don't think I have finished all the testimony yet for that. So I may be wrong, May have come up again later still.

Sinsaint · Jan 23, 2016

MysticJynx said:
Correct me if I am wrong but I also read that the judge would think about allowing it. However no one ever seems to come back to it, was a lot of stuff going on with entering into evidence the States Summaries of the calls. With the 4:35 reading 00 on the summary but his bill actually saying it was an 11 second call. I read and saw that KK tried to just keep getting this evidence entered and they seem to forget about asking about that deleted call. All though I don't think I have finished all the testimony yet for that. So I may be wrong, May have come up again later still.

Okay... The State argued against this information coming in. He said Buting was attempting to argue that Teresa might have still been alive that day and he (Kratz) had the right to know this change in defense strategy prior to that day. Buting wasn't arguing that she was still alive at that time but the judge agreed with Kratz and didn't allow Buting to ask about the call to her voicemail on the 2nd. Basically Kratz snookered the judge and he was so stupid he fell for it.

MysticJynx · Jan 23, 2016

Sinsaint said:
Okay... The State argued against this information coming in. He said Buting was attempting to argue that Teresa might have still been alive that day and he (Kratz) had the right to know this change in defense strategy prior to that day. Buting wasn't arguing that she was still alive at that time but the judge agreed with Kratz and didn't allow Buting to ask about the call to her voicemail on the 2nd. Basically Kratz snookered the judge and he was so stupid he fell for it.

Testimony from Feb 27th 2007 was with the Phone witnesses.
During this it is said by The Court....
All right. I'm, I guess, having trouble tying its relevance or probative value. I'm not going to allow it at this time. But I'm not going to automatically exclude it either. I want a little time to think about it. It will some -- the State some time to see if they have an explanation for who listened to it. But I'm -- It's-- I'm having a trouble seeing the apparent relevance of it at this stage of the trial.
Let's Bring the jurors back in. Do I take it that you have another technical person from Cingular who's going to be testifying?

Attorney K: No

------------------------------------------------------------
Did he ever think about it? He did recall earlier in this objection that they allowed testimony that MH and RH also entered her vm and online records. "THE COURT: I don't recall if there was testimony earlier about someone retrieving her messages earlier or not. Has there been any testimony about that in the record."

Seems no one ever went back to it as KK then was trying to be slippery and have the evidence that the Defense had already objected to. An evidence about why the incoming phone numbers are not showing up on TH's bill.

missy1974 · Jan 23, 2016

stephsb said:
I thought the voicemails were deleted the 3rd, can you point me to the part where you saw it was the 1st? (I definitely could be wrong, but that was the impression Strang was giving during cross of Michael)

He called her initially because she didn't show up for work, on a day he would have seen her. He called again because she missed the BMG meeting, and then on Thursday because her work was being delivered, and she was on top of that, she would have let someone know at that point if she was sick.

The receptionist at Auto Trader also had conversations about the Avery Property w. Teresa.

He was clearly the person it appears she spent the most time around on a day to day basis, so it doesn't surprise me he kicked off the investigation. Tbh, I'm surprised her parents or brother or roommate, who saw or talked to her every other day, waited 4 days.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The waiting 3+ days to report her missing has bothered me from the beginning. She lived next to her parents, in the country... but still close by, she had a room mate, she had a business partner or shared a studio with him, no friends tried calling her and were concerned???

It's strange. I hope if I ever go missing someone notices before 3 days go by

MysticJynx · Jan 23, 2016

missy1974 said:
The waiting 3+ days to report her missing has bothered me from the beginning. She lived next to her parents, in the country... but still close by, she had a room mate, she had a business partner or shared a studio with him, no friends tried calling her and were concerned???

It's strange. I hope if I ever go missing someone notices before 3 days go by

Also she was obviously getting other incoming calls that day. This being Halloween, and all calls stop after that 2:41pm call. Did she not have any plans on Halloween. Hand out candy, hang out with her parents while they handed out candy, go to a party? anything. No one called her anymore till that next morning. Does that seem weird too? She had a ton of friends so I have heard and not one of them thought to ask her what her plans were for after work on Halloween?

missy1974 · Jan 23, 2016

I guess if we could see her cell phone bill from other days, we would have a better idea. Maybe she didn't have a lot of friends? Was texting a thing yet then? I think so LOL Maybe she had unanswered text messages too?

that 2:41 incoming call and the CFNA code.... still bothers me.

Sinsaint · Jan 23, 2016

MysticJynx said:
This is something I came across while looking to see if there had been any other unknown murders that included a burnt corpse. Thought maybe there could be a serial killer on the loose, What i did come across was this article stemming from a burning of a corpse in Wisconsin. I am not saying that he is suspect or anything. but what I did find interesting was this one comment.

"County investigators along with workers from the Rock County Coroner's office have spent the day at the scene looking for evidence."
This was even before they found the bones on the property.

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/Police-look-for-missing-teen-229921881.html

He to burned a body in a fire pit behind his home. This may sound morbid, but I wonder what the difference is between the victim in this case and the remains of TH are, if any.

That's some interesting reading. I found a few other things of interest...

Middleton's story is that he panicked, a strange claim as he then admits to carefully cleaning his home of all evidence of Aprina being there and hiding her body. Then, while his fiancée went into town to buy supplies to make s'mores, he placed Aprina's body in a fire pit that he dug for this purpose, covered her with wood and kerosene, and set her remains on fire. He and his fiancée sat by the fire until midnight, presumably roasting marshmallows. Middleton burned Aprina's remains for three days.

A search warrant (HERE, 5 page pdf) resulted in officers seizing over 100 items including: a chainsaw, tools, women's makeup, fixtures, material from the burn pit, sixteen possible teeth,a bag of marijuana and many other items. What else was found?

http://wethepeopledanecounty.blogspot.com/2014/06/what-happened-to-aprina-paul-media.html

Bones and bone fragments recovered from the fire pit will be examined this week, Rock County Coroner Jenifer Keach said.

http://www.gazettextra.com/article/20131104/ARTICLES/131109917

Hmmm... Three days to burn her body which still resulted in full bones as well as bone fragments and at least half of her teeth.

ETA: Only one tooth of Teresa's was found in Avery's burn pit.

Soulmagent · Jan 23, 2016

Sinsaint said:
Okay... The State argued against this information coming in. He said Buting was attempting to argue that Teresa might have still been alive that day and he (Kratz) had the right to know this change in defense strategy prior to that day. Buting wasn't arguing that she was still alive at that time but the judge agreed with Kratz and didn't allow Buting to ask about the call to her voicemail on the 2nd. Basically Kratz snookered the judge and he was so stupid he fell for it.

Thanks. I know I had seen it had been deleted on the 2nd, but I could not remember where ,or if it was a valid source which had me all turned around!

ElleElle · Jan 23, 2016

http://overthrow.us/ryan-hillegas/r...s-purported-co-workers-reddit-post-recovered/

Thoughts?

shadowraiths · Jan 24, 2016

:bump:

Sinsaint · Jan 24, 2016

ElleElle said:
View attachment 87916

http://overthrow.us/ryan-hillegas/r...s-purported-co-workers-reddit-post-recovered/

Thoughts?

Well... I think it explains what I was feeling while watching the documentary. He could be totally innocent but it's hard to ignore he could've possibly been involved when no effort was made to exclude him. It's common knowledge murders will insinuate themselves into an investigation. This guy took over the search efforts, made himself a go-to guy with all the information, acted as a spokesperson for the family yet he was never even asked where he was at that day? Give me a break.

Sustained · Jan 24, 2016

Sinsaint said:
Well... I think it explains what I was feeling while watching the documentary. He could be totally innocent but it's hard to ignore he could've possibly been involved when no effort was made to exclude him. It's common knowledge murders will insinuate themselves into an investigation. This guy took over the search efforts, made himself a go-to guy with all the information, acted as a spokesperson for the family yet he was never even asked where he was at that day? Give me a break.

Maybe LE did exclude RH due to a solid alibi - we'll never know as they were not great at writing reports.

shadowraiths · Jan 25, 2016

Sustained said:
Maybe LE did exclude RH due to a solid alibi - we'll never know as they were not great at writing reports.

In this video (see 4:10 mark), he testifies that the "police never asked for his alibi" or considered him a suspect.

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