What evidence does the prosecution have?

BiancaS · May 11, 2012

Zak said:
BBM

I feel the same way and I know my dad would have grounded me forever.

One thing that I have been wondering is if Trayvon was in jeopardy of failing the school year because of all the days he was suspended? When a student is suspended, it is my understanding that those days are considered unexcused absences. (At least that is how it was when my son's were in school.) Since the days are unexcused, the school work missed can't be made up and the student would fail any missed test. On top of that, the days suspended count towards the amount of days a student may be absent in the grading period. I'm not sure what the school policy is at the school Trayvon attended, but where my son's went to school being suspended for 10days would have put a student in jeopardy of failing that grading period or possibly the school year. I know things change, but I just ask some friends with high school aged children and there still is an amount of days a student can be absent in one grading period and for the entire school year. At our local school its 7 days in a 9 week grading period. Unless there is a doctors excuse a student can be held back. Maybe someone knows the policy for suspended days and the attendance policy at Trayvon's school.

Doesn't really matter, does it? Trayvon won't be completing 11th grade, won't ever start his Senior year. Wont ever go to College and realize his dreams. We don't have anything but unconfirmed leaks about the suspension (and I don't think there was more than one, I think it was one incident with multiple issues).

But what we do know for sure is Trayvon celebrated his 17th birthday in February, went horseback riding with his Mom on her birthday soon after that. And then he went to Sanford with his Dad, was bored and went to 7-11. And then he was unfortunate enough to catch the jaded eye of George Zimmerman. He was mistaken for "one of those aholes that always get away" and minutes later lay face down on the grass with a bullet in his chest.

MOO.

Reader · May 11, 2012

Zak said:
BBM

I feel the same way and I know my dad would have grounded me forever.

One thing that I have been wondering is if Trayvon was in jeopardy of failing the school year because of all the days he was suspended? When a student is suspended, it is my understanding that those days are considered unexcused absences. (At least that is how it was when my son's were in school.) Since the days are unexcused, the school work missed can't be made up and the student would fail any missed test. On top of that, the days suspended count towards the amount of days a student may be absent in the grading period. I'm not sure what the school policy is at the school Trayvon attended, but where my son's went to school being suspended for 10days would have put a student in jeopardy of failing that grading period or possibly the school year. I know things change, but I just ask some friends with high school aged children and there still is an amount of days a student can be absent in one grading period and for the entire school year. At our local school its 7 days in a 9 week grading period. Unless there is a doctors excuse a student can be held back. Maybe someone knows the policy for suspended days and the attendance policy at Trayvon's school.

Maybe if Trayvon had not been killed he could have spent the time with his father as intended and gotten some good advice and influence to lead him to go back to school and get things straightened out. Tragically that cannot happen now, and these minor, yes minor, rule breakings are being used to foul his name after his death when he cannot defend himself. Even the head of the county school system wrote sympathetically about his death:

Alberto Carvalho, the head of the Miami-Dade schools system, has written the Department of Justice to lend his support to a federal inquiry into the death of Trayvon Martin:

"As Superintendent of Miami-Dade County Public Schools, a father, and an American, I am heartbroken and deeply disturbed by the senseless and untimely death of one of my students, one of my children, Trayvon Martin. Each year we lose far too many young people to illness and accidents, but the death of a child as the result of a violent act is not only heartbreaking, it is cause for outrage."

Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nake...outrage.html#storylink=misearch#storylink=cpy

I realize all too well there are entities that have a purpose in trying to make Trayvon look like a '' so therefore he is more believable as the aggressor and the cause of his own death, which serves to exonerate GZ. I realize there are many backers and agendas for this propaganda.

Nothing I have read here or at other sources leads me to believe that what Trayvon did at school or in any part of his life, all 17 years of it, means he did anything to deserve his death: not the silly twitters, not his suspensions, not his friends' jokes on facebook....NOTHING, NOTHING he did means he deserved to die.

Reader · May 12, 2012

Karmady said:
No, they could not. Unless Trayvon had been arrested for them, which is not a foregone conclusion when minors are involved (reference the jewelry incident) AND they were for a felony. Otherwise, his juvenile records are protected and not subject to disclosure.

So....how can anyone speak of them as really existing and being documented?

katydid23 · May 12, 2012

LambChop said:
That is kids stuff. Things that kids do. He was just 17 and doing stuff most kids learn from while they are in school. They make mistakes and are punished for it and that is how you learn. Certainly he did not deserve to die because he was on suspension from school. Plus his rules he broke did not involve a gun.

By the time you are 28 and able to carry a gun you should know how to respect the rules you, yourself agreed to follow. The rules GZ broke involved the gun. Part of getting a permit to carry was that he had to show he was responsible. Maybe that anger management class should have been considered prior to them issuing him a license for his gun. It may not have been obvious when he got his permit but it sure is obvious now that GZ never should have had that gun. jmo

BBM

I disagree and that is an issue that has kept me on the fence, so far. I worked in the public school system, and 3 suspensions in such a short time, that is excessive. A ten day suspension is what happens in very serious cases. That is a big deal. What you described above, ' kids stuff' ---that describes a one or two day suspension. My DD got a one day suspension for throwing a tater tot at a girl in the cafeteria. That is 'kids stuff.'

But TEN DAYS, that is serious. And there is a reason that it gives me pause.
OBVIOUSLY, it does NOT mean he deserved to be shot. My issue is that it MIGHT mean that TM had poor impulse control, and if so, it might have contributed to the problems that night. JMO

vlpate · May 12, 2012

BiancaS said:
Doesn't really matter, does it? Trayvon won't be completing 11th grade, won't ever start his Senior year. Wont ever go to College and realize his dreams. We don't have anything but unconfirmed leaks about the suspension (and I don't think there was more than one, I think it was one incident with multiple issues).

But what we do know for sure is Trayvon celebrated his 17th birthday in February, went horseback riding with his Mom on her birthday soon after that. And then he went to Sanford with his Dad, was bored and went to 7-11. And then he was unfortunate enough to catch the jaded eye of George Zimmerman. He was mistaken for "one of those aholes that always get away" and minutes later lay face down on the grass with a bullet in his chest.

MOO.

There were three suspensions. LINK - ABC

"Martin's family attorney confirmed today that the teenager was suspended from his Miami school three times over the past year.

Family attorney Benjamin Crump told ABC News that Martin had been slapped with a 10 day school suspension after a bag with suspected marijuana was found in his backpack.

Last year Martin was suspended for spraying graffiti on school grounds. The Miami Herald reported that the school guard who stopped him searched his backpack and found 12 items of women's jewelry and a flathead screw driver that the guard believed to be a "burglary implement." But Martin was never charged or specifically disciplined for the incident."

I can tell you, if it were my son on suspension for 10 days, and for the third time in one school year, he wouldn't be on his cell phone talking to his girlfriend for 400 minutes in one day or looking forward to kicking back and watching the All Star game with his skittles and iced tea.

When the prosecution contends, in court, that GZ had no reason to think TM looked suspicious, this will come in, just as they will try to bring up GZ's propensity toward violence seven years prior. I have a feeling it will all come in, or it will all stay out. Neither were angels.

Karmady · May 12, 2012

Reader said:
So....how can anyone speak of them as really existing and being documented?

They can really exist and be documented, but the persons who would have access to that information would be limited to the parties, the parents, the juvenile justice system (including the court workers, social workers, juvenile justice attorneys, judges, their employees, etc.) and anyone else that may have become privy to that information through association with the parties or the court.

Only some of those people can talk about what they know. Including any member of the general public, including Trayvon's family, friends and his victims unless they are prohibited by court order, etc., but not anyone who gained that knowledge through the juvenile justice system. For example, if the female friend on the phone knows about a juvenile record, she could say what she knows. The judge who heard the case, could not.

chefmom · May 12, 2012

vlpate said:
There were three suspensions. LINK - ABC

I can tell you, if it were my son on suspension for 10 days, and for the third time in one school year, he wouldn't be on his cell phone talking to his girlfriend for 400 minutes in one day or looking forward to kicking back and watching the All Star game with his skittles and iced tea.

When the prosecution contends, in court, that GZ had no reason to think TM looked suspicious, this will come in, just as they will try to bring up GZ's propensity toward violence seven years prior. I have a feeling it will all come in, or it will all stay out. Neither were angels.

I recall reading about the suspension for the baggy, but have they said what the other two were for? Is the suspension that was mentioned about the jewelry included in those, although it was from the previous school year, or were there 3 suspensions in the current school year?

katydid23 · May 12, 2012

I have not seen anyone saying he deserved to die. Even though that is said over and over, as if people are saying such a horrid thing. I think the questions about his suspensions are more to do with his 'potential' behavior that night.

If he was given 3 suspensions , then imo, he had some behavioral issues. And poor impulse control. So it makes me wonder if he might have taken a swing at GZ that night. It is as simple as that. Most 17 yr olds, who have already had two suspensions,
know that going into an unauthorized area and writing curse words on school property is going to be a bad choice. So it makes me wonder if he didn't sometimes make poor choices. How do we know he didn't hide and then jump out at GZ? Or punch him during their initial conversation?

Everybody keeps saying how obvious it is that TM would never do that, but I think his suspensions describe an attitude that might enable poor decision making skills. I just do not know without more evidence at this time.

chefmom · May 12, 2012

Karmady said:
They can really exist and be documented, but the persons who would have access to that information would be limited to the parties, the parents, the juvenile justice system (including the court workers, social workers, juvenile justice attorneys, judges, their employees, etc.) and anyone else that may have become privy to that information through association with the parties or the court.

Only some of those people can talk about what they know. Including any member of the general public, including Trayvon's family, friends and his victims unless they are prohibited by court order, etc., but not anyone who gained that knowledge through the juvenile justice system. For example, if the female friend on the phone knows about a juvenile record, she could say what she knows. The judge who heard the case, could not.

But would the juvenile records be allowed to be brought up at trial? I always thought juvy records were sealed and removed at a certain age. However, my knowledge comes from watching tv. Lol! Is it possible for a judge to allow them to be brought into a trial? I realize that there would be objections and discussion. I just always thought that juvenile records were kept from public disclosure.

vlpate · May 12, 2012

BiancaS said:
GZ was not exactly a stellar citizen. He defaulted on credit cards, got fired from jobs, lived on unemployment, was evicted from apartments, etc. not very accountable, and a seeming disrespect for authority. and, unlike Trayvon, who just turned 17, GZ is a grown married man that should know better. MOO.

Is all that going to help the prosecution?

Defaulted on A credit card - not a crime, common
Fired from a job - not a crime
Evicted - Link? If you are talking about the 911 call, that wasn't about him.
Lived on unemployment - but or the grace of God go all of us. Unemployment is a right, not a handout. You have to have worked to earn it. Nothing shameful there.

George was a grown married man with a job and going to school. He had a vehicle and a nice home, rented or not. His wife is going to school to be a nurse. A young couple trying to build a life. He cared about his neighborhood and his community. Make fun of the 46 calls in 7 years all you (in general 'you'), want, but most people would be happy to have someone watching out for them. He made a mistake in 2005, he won't be judged on it, that's why he is out on bond. JMO

vlpate · May 12, 2012

chefmom said:
But would the juvenile records be allowed to be brought up at trial? I always thought juvy records were sealed and removed at a certain age. However, my knowledge comes from watching tv. Lol! Is it possible for a judge to allow them to be brought into a trial? I realize that there would be objections and discussion. I just always thought that juvenile records were kept from public disclosure.

Corey herself said that TM would be considered an adult in a self-defense case due to his height. I find that very interesting.

Karmady · May 12, 2012

chefmom said:
But would the juvenile records be allowed to be brought up at trial? I always thought juvy records were sealed and removed at a certain age. However, my knowledge comes from watching tv. Lol! Is it possible for a judge to allow them to be brought into a trial? I realize that there would be objections and discussion. I just always thought that juvenile records were kept from public disclosure.

Anyone's records can be considered, as evidenced by the fact that George's diversion was considered at the bail hearing. A diversion is not a criminal adjudication. For all other purposes, those charges have been dismissed. Yet the court was aware of them, as it will be of any juvenile records of Trayvon. What I mean is, the Court itself is not at all subject to any non-disclosure rules regarding criminal records. The rules are in place to protect the person charged from PUBLIC disclosure of the records. The Court is not considered to be the public. jmo

That said, if Trayvon does have any juvenile record, it will probably not be allowed unless it is DIRECTLY on point. And even then, maybe not. For the same reasons, imo, evidence of george's priors also will not be admitted. jmo

Karmady · May 12, 2012

vlpate said:
Is all that going to help the prosecution?

Defaulted on A credit card - not a crime, common
Fired from a job - not a crime
Evicted - Link? If you are talking about the 911 call, that wasn't about him.
Lived on unemployment - but or the grace of God go all of us. Unemployment is a right, not a handout. You have to have worked to earn it. Nothing shameful there.

George was a grown married man with a job and going to school. He had a vehicle and a nice home, rented or not. His wife is going to school to be a nurse. A young couple trying to build a life. He cared about his neighborhood and his community. Make fun of the 46 calls in 7 years all you (in general 'you'), want, but most people would be happy to have someone watching out for them. He made a mistake in 2005, he won't be judged on it, that's why he is out on bond. JMO

excellent summary of exactly how the court has/will see it. imo

vlpate · May 12, 2012

chefmom said:
I recall reading about the suspension for the baggy, but have they said what the other two were for? Is the suspension that was mentioned about the jewelry included in those, although it was from the previous school year, or were there 3 suspensions in the current school year?

All in the same year. Absenteeism and tardiness, Pot and pipe, and vandalism (jewelry found as well)...possibly not in that order. I think the pot and pipe were last?

vlpate · May 12, 2012

Karmady said:
Anyone's records can be considered, as evidenced by the fact that George's diversion was considered at the bail hearing. A diversion is not a criminal adjudication. For all other purposes, those charges have been dismissed. Yet the court was aware of them, as it will be of any juvenile records of Trayvon. What I mean is, the Court itself is not at all subject to any non-disclosure rules regarding criminal records. The rules are in place to protect the person charged from PUBLIC disclosure of the records. The Court is not considered to be the public. jmo

That said, if Trayvon does have any juvenile record, it will probably not be allowed unless it is DIRECTLY on point. And even then, maybe not. For the same reasons, imo, evidence of george's priors also will not be admitted. jmo

In the juvenile boot camp case, where Crump represented the parents, they brought in a lot about the juvenile - from what I've read, the mother cried and was devastated in court. That's what I would hate to see happen to Sybrina in this case, and I hope she is made aware of what might come up. JMO

chefmom · May 12, 2012

vlpate said:
Corey herself said that TM would be considered an adult in a self-defense case due to his height. I find that very interesting.

Yes. It is interesting. I wonder why that would be?

AngelWings444 · May 12, 2012

vlpate said:
All in the same year. Absenteeism and tardiness, Pot and pipe, and vandalism (jewelry found as well)...possibly not in that order. I think the pot and pipe were last?

Wasn't it an EMPTY bag with traces of marijuana? You a make it seem like Trayvon had an ounce or something on him, I don't think he even had a joint. An empty bag with traces and a "marijuana" pipe.

Hard core criminal. <heavy sarcasm>

So wait, do we think the prosecution will use the suspensions against GZ? Geez. What does it have to do with what evidence does the prosecution have?

vlpate · May 12, 2012

chefmom said:
Yes. It is interesting. I wonder why that would be?

"In an interview with ABC News, expert and veteran state attorney Angela Corey says that although Martin was only 17-years old in life, his stature (6-3, 150 pounds) could qualify him as an adult in the courts. In turn, this may make his killer George Zimmerman's self defense claim more valid, and could see the state of Florida's controversial "Stand Your Ground" law work in his favor."
LINK

I used to have the ABC interview bookmarked and now it's not coming up. I remember watching the interview. JMO (in case I can't find the video)

rossva · May 12, 2012

Gateway drug.

Gateway crimes.

Minor offenses, but still illegal offenses.

AngelWings444 said:
Wasn't it an EMPTY bag with traces of marijuana? You a make it seem like Trayvon had an ounce or something on him, I don't think he even had a joint. An empty bag with traces and a "marijuana" pipe.

Hard core criminal. <heavy sarcasm>

So wait, do we think the prosecution will use the suspensions against GZ? Geez. What does it have to do with what evidence does the prosecution have?

Karmady · May 12, 2012

AngelWings444 said:
Wasn't it an EMPTY bag with traces of marijuana? You a make it seem like Trayvon had an ounce or something on him, I don't think he even had a joint. An empty bag with traces and a "marijuana" pipe.

Hard core criminal. <heavy sarcasm>

This POV always makes me shake my head. If the bag is EMPTY what happened to it. Did the dope get up and dance away. lol If one of my kids got busted with a full bag they'd be in a world of hurt, but MIGHT be able to convince me they hadn't used or dealt yet (doubtful, but possible for a first time offense at their tender ages). You show me a pipe and an EMPTY baggie, well, there's really not much question what you did with it. You either smoked it or dealt it. And tweets looking for some plant aren't helping your cause any. Assuming the 'rents ever accessed the tweets.

Most likely nothing to do with the case, but it would explain a long walk outside.

What evidence does the prosecution have?

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