Unclassified Victims **MERGED**

:worms: a while back i posted a link to a forum post about a long islander visiting the beach on Ocean Parkway around 2003ish only to find a full CSI crime lab with a van (maybe the one truthspider bought) and cops combing the beach. So maybe Sugar bear's extremities where dumped on OP. I also wonder where the man with severe scoliosis and the steel rod in his back was dumped.

Can you please find that for me? There's a free website for background check I'm using, not really a good one it shows no arrest records for Andre Jamal Isaac. And head and hands go together in Manorville cases. Still curious about where Andre's arms and legs were found
 
I've always thought that the male found near Jones Beach field area 6 and Manorville found near the LIE were either men hooking up with another man, male prostitutes or underling drug dealers.

I agree. I think most of the male victims were likely also sex workers because sex workers (the escorts themselves, not the pimps) seem to often not be reported missing.

Seems to me that a pimp or drug dealer and even more likely, a john, would be reported missing by someone in their lives. Just some thoughts on the UIDs....
 
EVE ESKIN BROWN

Eve Eskin Brown, 29, from Plainview Long Island
Missing: 10 July 1999, from Queens
Found: 15 November 2000, in Brooklyn, dismembered, placed in a bag
Her car, Geo Prizm, was found about 6 weeks later in Brooklyn (A thief was interrogated) . Her phone was also traced to a man who claimed he stole it.


She was found on the construction site of Gateway Mall, which was used once as a landfill then left untouched as an undeveloped lot for a period of time.

Eve was 5 months pregnant when she was missing

Using dental records, authorities last week identified decomposed remains inside a plastic bag found at the Brooklyn construction site Nov. 15 as those of Eve Brown.


HIGHLIGHTS OF THE STORY

++++
Detective Edward Reuss, a spokesman for the New York City Police Department, said workers found a human skull and human bones on the ground at 63-54 Belt Parkway at 11:25 a.m. on Nov. 15.

The workers were installing a fence between Pennsylvania Avenue and the Fresh Creek Basin near Starrett City, he said. The remains were taken to the office of the New York City medical examiner. Yesterday, they were identified as Mrs. Brown's through dental X-rays, said Ellen S. Borakove, a spokeswoman for the office.

The remote and weeded area had long been reputed as a Mafia dumping ground – made famous by boasts from Brooklyn gangster Roy DeMeo that he had dumped hundreds of bodies there.
++++


+++
November 26, 2000 | 5:00am
Investigators yesterday searched for new clues about a the death of a pregnant Long Island woman – scouring the site where her remains were found, where they discovered two new bones, sources said.
It was unclear whether the new findings – an ankle bone and a hip bone, sources said – are part of Eve Brown’s remains.
They were found near where workers building a shopping mall about 30 feet off the Belt Parkway in Brooklyn discovered Brown’s remains on Nov. 15, the sources said. On Friday, police said the remains belonged to Brown, a 29-year-old mom-to-be who vanished without a trace on July 10, 1999.

The lot where Brown was found has long been a reputed dumping ground for mob killings, meaning the new bones could belong to someone else.
++++

+++
Mrs. Brown, a counselor at a nursing home, was last seen on July 10, 1999, by her husband, Mr. Brown told the police that his wife said she was going to visit a girlfriend in Freeport, but it was later discovered that Mrs. Brown's friend was vacationing in the Caribbean at the time. The pregnant Long Island woman whose remains were discovered at a Brooklyn construction site Nov. 15 was enmeshed in a love triangle when she vanished, sources said yesterday.

Nassau County detectives interviewed Eve Brown's secret lover early in their missing person investigation. Sources said the man, who has no criminal record, readily cooperated with investigators.

Larry Brown, 32, had agreed to several interviews with Nassau detectives shortly after his raven-haired wife vanished. But Carman [Larry's lawyer] said he's ruled out any more interviews with cops for his client. "We've been very cooperative with detectives, made personal documents and computers available to them," Carman said. "My position that he won't be made available for repetitive interrogations is not a lack of cooperation. "Any information they need," he added, "they can get from Larry through me.

Eve Brown's parents lashed out at their son-in-law yesterday, saying he's shunned the family and hasn't cooperated with the investigation. Her mother, Bonnie Eskin, told Channel 11 that Larry Brown refused to talk to a private investigator hired by the family. She also charged that he had failed a lie detector test. Carman told Channel 11 that cops once hooked up his client to a polygraph, but the lawyer doesn't know whether a full test was given. "He distanced himself from the investigation and hasn't been with the family," said Jay Eskin, Eve Brown's father.


" Carman said his client "had nothing to do with his wife's disappearance or death" and is as eager as the Eskin family to uncover the truth. Larry Brown told the Daily News in July 1999 that his was the "perfect marriage" and that the couple had been trying to conceive for more than a year when his wife became pregnant with their first child. She was five months pregnant when she disappeared.
++++


+++
Bonnie Eskin had last seen her daughter July 10, 1999 at Shea Stadium. She and her husband, Jay, accompanied Eve and her husband, Larry Brown, to a Yankees-Mets game.

Jay Eskin admits he cannot be 100 percent certain there were no other men in Eve's life. He thinks it's extremely unlikely.

During the day she worked as a counselor at the Queens-Nassau Rehabilitation Center, a nursing home for the victims of traumatic head injuries.

At night she ran a marriage guidance service, a business she started in 1997.

But the Eskins cannot help being suspicious of Eve's husband, who hired a lawyer within hours of Eve's disappearance. He denies any involvement in his wife's murder but Bonnie Eskin says she feels, at the very least, that Eve died because Larry did not take proper care of her.

"I blame Larry Brown for not protecting my daughter," says Bonnie. "He let her do things on her own that put her in harms way."
++++

+++
The family of the pregnant Long Island woman whose remains were found at a Brooklyn construction site this month are sharing their grief with the woman's husband, her sister said yesterday. "He's just as devastated as we are," Shari Eskin, 25, said of Larry Brown, the husband of her deceased sister, Eve Brown.
++++

+++
The night Eve disappeared, she left Shea early with Larry so she would not get bumped by the crowds. By the time Bonnie and Jay left Shea, Eve was already at home, resting on her bed. Eve told her mother she planned to visit her friend Tessa, a former Queens-Nassau employee.

AT 7 p.m. she left home dressed in black shorts and a black T-shirt. She was carrying a back pack containing a sweater and long pants, in case she decided to sleep over at Tessa's. She was driving her black Geo Prism. It is the next few hours which probably hold the key to what happened to Eve.
++++

+++
According to her cellular phone records, she made three calls to Tessa as she drove towards the Queens-Nassau center where she planned to pick up messages - they were retrieved at 7:40 p.m.

The puzzle here is that Tessa had no plans to see Eve. In fact Tessa was in the Dominican Republic at her grandmother's funeral. This initially led Suffolk County police to suspect that Eve had arranged a tryst with a lover.
++++


SCPD implies she was making a lie arrangement with Tessa.


+++
Cops yesterday [27 Nov 2000] interviewed Brown’s parents, and began to pore through files compiled since she vanished 16 months ago. Sources had no details on Brown’s apparent boyfriend. But Brooklyn detectives plan to reinterview more than 30 people questioned in the original probe of her July 1999 disappearance.

Workers found Eve Brown’s remains, wrapped in a plastic bag, at a construction site near the Belt Parkway Nov. 15, and the medical examiner identified them Friday.
++++

The remains can not be identified as a pregnant woman because her body was dismembered.



+++
Police Baffled by Disappearance Of Pregnant Long Island Woman
Published: July 14, 1999

The woman, Eve Brown, 29, was last seen around 7:20 P.M. on Saturday by her husband, Larry, as she backed her black 1994 Chevy Geo out of the driveway of their new home at 100 Jamaica Avenue, in Plainview, N.Y., the police said. Mr. Brown said his wife told him she was going to see a friend in Freeport, about 15 miles away, according to the police.

But the missing woman's friend was not at home, the police said, because she had flown to the Dominican Republic several days earlier. Mrs. Brown's car has not been recovered, and the only clue is a telephone call the police said was made from her cell phone around 7:30 P.M. the day she disappeared. The police did not say who had made the call.

According to her cell-phone records, Eve made a call to her office in Wantagh - retrieving her message at 7:40 p.m. The call to Wantagh was the last made by Eve that night.

Then, it's presumed, she drove toward Tessa's home in Freeport. But Tessa was nowhere near New York - she was in the Dominican Republic at her grandmother's funeral - and some investigators think Eve was using Tessa as a cover for an illicit meeting of some sort.
++++

She's not going to Freeport (i.e. friend Tessa)


+++
At 1 a.m. (July 11), Larry called his wife's cell phone but got no answer. He had plans to leave early the following morning for the next of the three Yankee-Mets games and may have assumed his wife was staying with Tessa. Larry went to sleep but was awake by 6 a.m. At 9 a.m., with still no word from Eve, he called Bonnie Eskin.

"I can still hear his voice, asking if we had heard from Eve," she [Bonnie] says. "Immediately my skin went ice cold. I could sense something was terribly wrong." EVE had never been absent like that before. She had always kept in close contact. Throughout her life, she had never been in any kind of trouble. "I could set my watch by Eve's telephone calls," Larry Brown told police. "When she didn't call that Saturday it was like time had stopped."


For the next 10 days, it was as if Eve had been abducted by aliens. There were no sightings and she made no contact. Then, on July 31, came the telephone call.

"The phone rang and on my caller ID I saw Eve's cell-phone number," says Jay. "I felt like my heart jumped from my mouth and bounced against the walls."

Jay answered the call and a male voice said "hello," and then hung up. The phone rang three more times with similar results.

Eve's father knew his daughter might have been hurt by somebody the moment she went missing, but those calls left him staring at the bleak reality she might be dead.

++++

+++
They also jogged his memory about a strange incident two days before the baseball game. "Eve told us on Thursday she had fallen out with somebody at work," Jay says.

"She told us she was afraid of going back. That was strange because my daughter was hardly ever afraid of anything."

POLICE have asked the Eskins not to identify the person Eve had a spat with.

But Bo Dietl Associates, a prominent private-investigation firm the family has hired, says the workplace argument angle seems to be a dead end. Eve went to work on Friday as planned and later told her family she had no problems with any of her co-workers that day.
++++


+++
Police in the 67th Precinct, with assistance from the NYPD Technical Assistance Resource Unit, traced the mysterious calls to a man who told them Eve's phone had been stolen from a U-Haul truck.

The next day, Eve's car was found in a chop shop a few yards from the U-Haul. With it was trace evidence that at last brought the Eskins some hope of closure.

"There was no sign of anything belonging to Eve but there was blood on the steering column," says Bonnie. "I thought we might quickly find her body or a suspect."

Instead they found a small-time car thief. He had watched Eve's unlocked Prism sit on Church Avenue between Bedford and Rogers in Brooklyn for a week - where it got two parking tickets even though there was an all-points bulletin on the car.

ON JULY 20, the thief pounced. Finding the keys on the floor he drove it to an alleyway where he removed the mirrors before cutting himself trying to pry out the airbag. The car thief was questioned and released. He offered no information about the whereabouts of Eve Eskin. And that is all there has been by way of tangible clues.
++++


+++
Detectives are continuing to press for leads in the cold murder case of a pregnant Long Island woman whose dismembered body was found stuffed into a plastic bag in a vacant Brooklyn lot, police said yesterday.

Police thought they had a break when they determined that Brown made a call from her cell phone the night of her disappearance. Investigators were able to determine the call had been made from within a few blocks of the Valley Stream home of one of her co-workers, Patrick Kingland.

Detectives searched Kingland’s house in February, took a DNA sample and brought him to Brooklyn for questioning – but the case remains open.
++++




+++
Her husband reported Eve missing the next day. Nearly six weeks after Brown disappeared, her stripped-down car, a black 1994 Geo Prizm, turned up in an alley in Flatbush, Brooklyn. The license plates, an air bag and other parts had been stolen, but investigators reportedly found no signs of violence.
++++





TWO MORE BODIES WERE FOUND ON THE SAME LOT


The construction of a shopping mall in East New York, designed to bring upscale shopping to the beleaguered neighborhood, has turned up two grim reminders of the area’s violent past. A digging crew at a landfill off the Belt Parkway in eastern Brooklyn – site of the new Gateway Center mall – found a decomposing human body in a plastic bag Wednesday, cops said.

On Thursday, they found another one.

Work was halted Wednesday so police could remove the body of a female, whose legs were bound. The victim appeared to be a black woman in her 20s, dead less than two years, cops estimated. When digging began again on Thursday, another body surfaced from amid the rubble, the skeleton of a male of undetermined age and race – with an apparent bullet hole in his head, police said. Police believe he’s been dead for more than two years.



http://www.nytimes.com/2000/11/25/n...in-brooklyn-are-those-of-a-missing-woman.html

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/07/14/n...appearance-of-pregnant-long-island-woman.html

http://nypost.com/2002/11/11/pregnant-womans-99-slay-reopened/

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/slain-woman-affair-article-1.938394

http://nypost.com/2000/11/28/pregnant-victims-double-life/

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/remains-id-woman-article-1.883029

http://nypost.com/2000/11/26/bones-found-near-remains-of-l-i-woman/

http://nypost.com/2000/11/20/grisly-graves-unearthed-bklyn-mall-dig-finds-2-bodies/

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/widower-in-laws-grieving-article-1.891809
 
'THE EXTRA BODIES' It is like I have been telling you: when a body is found in such circumstances the cops aren't too anxious to look about because there is a good chance they will find more than they can chew.

If the cops went there to do a full search they probably would have found another 10 bodies.
 
Wow looks like the dumping ground before Manorville or Gilgo! Uhaul just like Joe Brewer&Drifter!!
 
Emre, your on to something here...this dump site at the gateway center mall is RIGHT BY Lenny's Clam Bar!!!
 
Emre, your on to something here...this dump site at the gateway center mall is RIGHT BY Lenny's Clam Bar!!!

Clam bar meaning burlap? I think the burlaps (if they are a striking common feature of the crime) are from burlap rolls used in construction and construction I surmise MTA NYC. I think Mrs. Brown was carjacked. She was alone, she had no protection. Just like GB4.
 
Clam bar meaning burlap? I think the burlaps (if they are a striking common feature of the crime) are from burlap rolls used in construction and construction I surmise MTA NYC. I think Mrs. Brown was carjacked. She was alone, she had no protection. Just like GB4.

Even better...."
Steven Cicero, a friend of Ms. Raffo’s, said that he was interviewed by the authorities late last week and that they asked about a crack dealer who had been sleeping in the living room of her Ocean Avenue apartment, and about two men from Howard Beach. Mr. Cicero, who is from Ozone Park, Queens, said the investigators indicated that they had been to Queens over the last two weeks.

“They showed me pictures of two guys from Howard Beach, one scruffy guy and one with big ears,” Mr. Cicero said. “They said these guys are from your neck of the woods. They asked me if I knew Lenny’s Clam Bar in Howard Beach. I hate to say it, but it doesn’t sound like they really got anything right now.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/23/nyregion/23slay.html

So again you have the victims phone used to prank family, then the phone turns up again on the streets. Whats going on here? I can't even make sense of it...The phone was stolen from inside a u-haul?

How does Eve go from driving around Pat Kinglands block to dismembered on the belt barkway with her car stripped in flatbush? Found the keys on the floor? Then how did he get the phone out of U-Haul? This story makes no sense at all....This small time thief is clearly a big time killer!
 
Even better...."
Steven Cicero, a friend of Ms. Raffo’s, said that he was interviewed by the authorities late last week and that they asked about a crack dealer who had been sleeping in the living room of her Ocean Avenue apartment, and about two men from Howard Beach. Mr. Cicero, who is from Ozone Park, Queens, said the investigators indicated that they had been to Queens over the last two weeks.

“They showed me pictures of two guys from Howard Beach, one scruffy guy and one with big ears,” Mr. Cicero said. “They said these guys are from your neck of the woods. They asked me if I knew Lenny’s Clam Bar in Howard Beach. I hate to say it, but it doesn’t sound like they really got anything right now.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/23/nyregion/23slay.html

So again you have the victims phone used to prank family, then the phone turns up again on the streets. Whats going on here? I can't even make sense of it...The phone was stolen from inside a u-haul?

How does Eve go from driving around Pat Kinglands block to dismembered on the belt barkway with her car stripped in flatbush? Found the keys on the floor? Then how did he get the phone out of U-Haul? This story makes no sense at all....This small time thief is clearly a big time killer!

There's a Person A, Melissa Barthelemy's "second" phone was found in his possession, who claimed he snatched it during a fight.
There's a Person B, Eve Eskin's phone was found in his possession, who claimed he stole/got from somewhere.

If I were LE, I would be looking into the relationships between Person A and Person B, starting with if they are the same individual.

EDIT: Regarding AC4, the story given in Dark Minds sounds legit to me.
 
My recollection of the Brown case is the husband or the boyfriend that impregnated her were the suspects in this murder. She allegedly had a boyfriend in Brooklyn near where the body was found. I don't believe the murder was ever solved. This wasn't the work of a serial killer. As I recall the husband stopped talking to the police. That is just my recollection.

The big question was: Why was why did she go to Brooklyn if not to see her boyfriend? Or did someone kill her in Nassau County and transported her body in her car all the way into Brooklyn?

My recollection, and it is purely my recollection is for some reason the husband didn't believe the child was his.
 
My recollection of the Brown case is the husband or the boyfriend that impregnated her were the suspects in this murder. She allegedly had a boyfriend in Brooklyn near where the body was found. I don't believe the murder was ever solved. This wasn't the work of a serial killer. As I recall the husband stopped talking to the police. That is just my recollection.

The big question was: Why was why did she go to Brooklyn if not to see her boyfriend? Or did someone kill her in Nassau County and transported her body in her car all the way into Brooklyn?

My recollection, and it is purely my recollection is for some reason the husband didn't believe the child was his.

What I read tells the same story, I guess the husband was resentful when he saw the picture, that's why he shuns everybody including LE, taking the risk to be accused of the crime. Similarly the boyfriend was cleared by LE. So, I don't think it's either of them. IMO if it was somebody she knew, police wouldn't hesitate to make an arrest even if they had solely circumstantial evidence.

As I can infer, something happened to her when she was out alone, a random crime.

EDIT: In both Barthelemy and Brown cases police gets a lead with the phones but both cases stop and go nowhere. I couldn't find anywhere why those leads are not followed through.

First possibility, the person is innocent, got/stole the phone I would be expecting calls, lots of calls incoming outgoing. Just like an ordinary phone.
Second possibility, the person is the killer, involved in the crime, I would expect (almost) no calls.

Records of those phones would be telling about the involvement of the person or persons (?)
 
What I read tells the same story, I guess the husband was resentful when he saw the picture, that's why he shuns everybody including LE, taking the risk to be accused of the crime. Similarly the boyfriend was cleared by LE. So, I don't think it's either of them. IMO if it was somebody she knew, police wouldn't hesitate to make an arrest even if they had solely circumstantial evidence.

As I can infer, something happened to her when she was out alone, a random crime.

EDIT: In both Barthelemy and Brown cases police gets a lead with the phones but both cases stop and go nowhere. I couldn't find anywhere why those leads are not followed through.

First possibility, the person is innocent, got/stole the phone I would be expecting calls, lots of calls incoming outgoing.
Second possibility, the person is the killer, I would expecting (almost) no calls.

Records of those phones would be telling about the involvement of the person or persons (?)

Bet when she left her home to meet her friend tessa, she actually drove to Patrick Kingland her coworker in Valley Stream and called him from his street. So how does she go from calling Patrick Kingland from her car outside his block to dismembered in Brooklyn? :eye:

The phone call to family....plus the date July 10...and then another female and male dumped at the same spot......:croc:
 
Bet when she left her home to meet her friend tessa, she actually drove to Patrick Kingland her coworker in Valley Stream and called him from his street. So how does she go from calling Patrick Kingland from her car outside his block to dismembered in Brooklyn? :eye:

The phone call to family....plus the date July 10...and then another female and male dumped at the same spot......:croc:

Gateway Mall, 15 November 2000, there's ongoing construction in the lot. Flood lights, construction machines, workers...
Why Jane Doe 2000 (Found 19 Nov 2000, possibly dead a week or so) is in Manorville? Maybe there's a reason.
 
You think there's a construction connection to Manorville?

No, I surmise if it's LISK he went to the lot, saw the people working there and searched for another place to dump the bodies. Just thinking...
 
THALIA STATHIS – HUGUES FRANCOIS – TANYA RUSH

The following is a recompiled version of information available online. Any contribution or correction is welcome.


Thalia Stathis was reported missing on September 26th, 2007 by co-workers at the Arena Diner, Hackensack NJ. Her live in boyfriend Hugues Francois was accused of fatally beating her, after Stathis told Francois that she was planning to break off their relationship. Thalia’s blood was found inside her bathroom and in the trunk of Francois’ car. Jury found him guilty of the murder and Francois was sentenced to 40 years.


Let’s review this slam dunk case.


Thalia Stathis went missing from Hackensack, NJ. September 14th, 2007. Her body was found on July 9th, 2008 on the side of a road on the Southern State Parkway in the North Merrick.
http://goo.gl/N8V9l9

A “laundry-type bag” containing the badly decomposed body of an adult was found Wednesday night.



In 2010, Hugues Francois was convicted of the following counts: 1 - first-degree aggravated manslaughter, 2 - second-degree disturbing or removing human remains, 3 & 4 third-degree forgery, 5 - fourth-degree theft by deception, 6 - third-degree hindering apprehension and he received a sentence of 40 years. He must serve nearly 32 years before being eligible for parole. That is because the sentences are given at the maximums and they are all back to back. I wish all crimes get punished that harshly.

Question is; why is he NOT getting a conviction for first or second degree murder, if the prosecution holds such a strong hand?


FRANCOIS IS ARRESTED SEPTEMBER 26th
On September 26, 2007, Cliffside Park police officers were dispatched to her apartment to check on her welfare, Francois showed up at Stathis' apartment as they searched it, he told police that he hadn't seen or heard from her and figured she merely left, police said.

Police said they initially arrested Francois on Sept. 26 — the day Stathis was reported missing — for drug paraphernalia possession and failure to register under Megan’s Law charges after they caught him walking into his apartment holding a crack pipe.

Francois is taken into police custody on September 26th (for drug charges) incarcerated on September 27th and he is NEVER released after that, with bail first raised from 50K to 150K then to 2M USD.


CRIMINAL RECORD OF FRANCOIS
Francois, served seven years in prison on a 1997 aggravated manslaughter conviction, was being held Wednesday night on $50,000 bail. In addition, police have charged Francois, also convicted in 1997 of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old, with failure to report as a sex offender under Megan's Law, authorities said.

TEEN SLAIN; DRUG LINK SUSPECTED
Date: 02-23-1994, Wednesday
It looked like a drug deal gone bad, and it cost an Englewood teen his life, authorities say. The body of the 19-year-old man was found in a baseball dugout in a Teaneck park, officials said Tuesday. It was the first slaying in Bergen County this year. Karriem Goodwin, who was shot in the head, was found by a group of teenagers walking through Milton Votee Park late Monday, Bergen County Prosecutor John J. …

SUSPECT HELD IN TEANECK SLAYING -- HANDGUN SEIZED AFTER A TIP LEADS TO ARREST
Date: 03-17-1994, Thursday
A gun seized from a man who carried it into a meeting with his probation officer has led investigators to a suspect in last month's slaying of a 19-year-old youth in a Teaneck baseball dugout. Hugues Francois, 19, of 1473 Terrace Circle, Teaneck, was charged Wednesday in the shooting death of Karriem Goodwin, 19, at Milton Votee Park on Feb. 21.

I couldn’t find information about the rape conviction.


THALIA STATHIS
The victim, Thalia Stathis, was employed as a waitress at the Arena Diner in Hackensack where she worked the overnight shift. Harry Mavrozisis, the Arena Diner night manager, testified that Thalia was an "excellent" employee who worked six days a week. Both he and Jimmie Vetsas, another night manager, stated that she rarely missed work.

She earned $200 a day – working 15 hours a day, often seven days a week – to support herself and her live-in boyfriend, Francois.



FRANCOIS IS AN EVIL MAN
Prosecutors also said Stathis had shown up at work with bruises and told co-workers she wanted to break up with Francois.

Thalia's mother, Joanne Stathis, testified that her relationship with her daughter changed "drastically" when Thalia began dating defendant. On September 7, 2007, Stathis first informed her mother that she was leaving defendant and wanted to come back home. Thalia also confided in two Arena Diner customers who became friends, Ronni Sheldon and Janet Teller, in early September 2007, that she intended to leave defendant.

Thalia had a number of telephone conversations with her parents in the days following September 7. On September 10, 2007, Thalia called Joanne, crying. The two met at a local restaurant, where Thalia told Joanne that she had broken up with defendant and did not want to see him again. Thalia returned to work after lunch and Joanne did not see her daughter alive again.

Thalia last reported for work on September 13, 2007. That evening, she told both Mavrozisis and Vetsas that she was going to leave defendant. Thalia told Vetsas that before leaving him she intended to return to her apartment to pick up clothes. According to Vetsas, he advised Thalia that her father should accompany her to the apartment, but Thalia stated it was unnecessary.


Following that evening, Mavrozisis found it unusual and became concerned when Thalia missed her scheduled shifts. When he failed in his efforts to contact Thalia, Mavrozisis ultimately contacted the police four or five days later.

Four or five days? This is from a court document! By all accounts Stathis is reported missing on September 26th.


OPEN ENDED SUGGESTIONS
There are several open ended suggestions in prosecution’s case, however none of them are followed through to a certain conclusion.


News Reports
He told police that it wasn’t unusual for his girlfriend of two years to disappear so he never alerted authorities, prosecutors said.

Court Documents
On September 26, 2007, when Thalia had been missing for approximately fourteen days, Cliffside Park police officers were dispatched to her apartment to check on her welfare. They spoke with defendant, who informed them that he lived in the apartment with Stathis, his girlfriend of approximately three years, and that he had not seen her for about a week.


Prosecution implies that Francois not reporting her girlfriend missing is suspicious, however she’s not reported missing by her friends who saw her in bruises in the past, who were “worried” about her going to apartment alone that night and not showing up for work next day. Similarly her family doesn’t report her missing as well.



January 17, 2008 - FRANCOIS IS CHARGED WITH MURDER - (It is possible in NJ without a body)

News Reports
Francois said nothing other than answering yes-or-no questions at a brief hearing Thursday in Superior Court in Hackensack, where he entered his plea. Several family members and friends of Stathis' attended the hearing and left without commenting.

Francois is represented by Robert Kalisch (public defender)

Court Document
After the close of testimony on the second day of trial, the prosecutor asked the court to advise defendant that he should not be speaking in front of the jury and that he should communicate through his attorney and comply with appropriate courtroom decorum. The judge addressed defendant, pointed out that he did get up and start to speak, and told him that he could not do that. When the judge stated he was not going to debate the issue, defendant said,

FRANCOIS:
If that's the case, why don't you let me represent myself then? Because [counsel is] not doing the stuff I'm asking him to do anyway. So let me represent myself.

I'm competent. I -- I have a high school diploma. I -- I know how to read and I know how to write and let me -- cause there's questions that's not being asked. There's things that are not being said.



After explaining why he considered his defense deficient, defendant made six further requests to represent himself. The judge repeatedly stated he was just telling defendant the rules regarding courtroom behavior and called his counsel "extremely capable[.]" Defendant disagreed and again requested to proceed pro se. The judge stated; [W]e are now in about day five of the trial including jury selection. If there was an application going to be made to represent yourself, it should have been done before trial and I would have considered it.... [T]he Public Defender's Office... assigned [you] Mr. Kalisch and he will be your attorney throughout the matter.

Defendant protested, reiterating that his counsel was not asking the questions he wanted him to ask. The judge again stated that Kalisch would serve as his attorney and advised defendant to contact the Public Defender's Office if there were issues communicating with Kalisch. Defendant then interrupted the judge and asked, "So why can't I represent myself and he sit right here by my side[?]" The judge refused, again noting that the trial was in its fifth day, and "we're not going to be thinking about changing attorneys at this point." Defendant did not renew his request to proceed pro se thereafter.

His attorney, finds it in the best interest of Francois to shut up, while the man is craving for telling. Normally attorneys do that because their idiot client is guilty, and they are worried that the client will incriminate himself at the stand. However, Francois wants to speak but the attorney, the judge and the prosecution do not let this. If Francois will screw himself up, so be it. Why isn’t he allowed to speak?






BLOOD STAINS
News Reports - there are two different versions
I- Lab results from blood found in the trunk of his car didn't produce a match, but it is "consistent" with Stathis' DNA, Assistant Bergen County Prosecutor Catherine Fantuzzi told the judge Tuesday.

II- Prosecutors said blood found in the trunk of Francois' car is consistent with that of Stathis' parents.


1. Prosecution probably had Thalia’s DNA but they do not emphasize a strict match with blood samples, instead they prefer to use roundabout wordings. Even if they don’t have Thalia’s DNA during the time she was missing, they can redo the tests after her body is found.

2. In the court document (appeal ruling) the wording changes.


Court Documents
During the course of the interview, defendant stated he owned a vehicle, a 2007 Honda Accord, that was parked around the block from the apartment. He consented to a search of the vehicle.

The floor plate that would have covered the spare tire was missing, as was a carpet padding. A "yellowish brown" substance, containing compounds commonly found in cleaning products, was found below the spare tire. There were also five "reddish brown" stains in the trunk. Three of the stains were tested and found to contain Thalia's blood. A floor mat was missing from the front passenger side of the vehicle.

Following the car search, police re-interviewed defendant, who said the detectives were lying about finding blood in the car. Asked if he had killed Thalia, defendant became "very belligerent very uncooperative" and refused to speak further.

A search of Thalia's apartment led to the discovery of four blood stains in the bathroom. Two of those stains, one found on the wall behind the toilet and the one on the underside of the sink were Thalia's blood.

1. What are the other “blood stains”? Who do they belong to?

2. Blood stains are found UNDERSIDE OF THE SINK and BEHIND THE TOILET. Since blood travels in straight lines, those stains must be caused by spatter. But the corresponding blood marks are not referred. Prosecution implies a possible wild episode taking place in the bathroom and thus hints the bathroom must be thoroughly cleaned. However, they do not officially put this theory forward in court. It’s another OPEN ENDED SUGGESTION that is not concluded to any point. (see below)

3. Prosecution fails to perform a cadaver dog confirmation twice, both inside the car and inside the apartment.



WHERE DID THALIA DIE? (I)
News Reports
Prosecutors said Francois fatally beat Thalia Stathis at their Cliffside Park apartment before disposing of her body. “You murdered my daughter, put her in a bag in the trunk of your car, that she paid for, and threw her out on a highway like a piece of garbage,” Joanne Stathis said.

Court Documents
...prosecutor's concession that the homicide did not occur at the victim's apartment in Cliffside Park.

Although prosecution feeds the press about the possible place of fatal confrontation, they do not officially declare Thalia’s bathroom as a crime scene.


WHERE DID THALIA DIE? (II)
Court Documents
A floor mat was missing from the front passenger side of the vehicle.

Prosecution implies part of the altercation took place in the car. But once again it is an OPEN ENDED SUGGESTION. They don’t query why it is missing. They don’t emphasize when it went missing. Neither the prosecution nor the defense asks Francois about the missing upholstery. Prosecution does not put a scenario how the crime occurred.



HOW THE BODY WAS DISPOSED OF?
Court Documents
Police observed that a blue sheet covered the bed mattress. [This will later be referred again]


The search of the car's trunk yielded two laundry bags containing clothing, detergent and an air freshener as well as other items.

Thalia's body was dressed only in underwear and wrapped in three plastic shopping/laundry-type bags, a garbage bag, and a blue sheet.

Prosecution makes a search in the apartment with the intention to discover evidence of a murder, but they fail to ponder about how the body of the missing person could be disposed of, i.e. they are not looking at missing sheets, curtains, carpets or garbage bags for a potential match in the future, when the body is found. They only vaguely emphasize a color similarity.

From news reports the “bag” takes two forms
a) her body was found decomposing in a vinyl bag on the side of the Southern State Parkway in
b) wrapped in three plastic shopping/laundry-type bags

By referring to the laundry bags found in the trunk prosecution once again implies Francois’ culpability, however one more time this goes as an OPEN ENDED SUGGESTION. Prosecution fails to demonstrate that the bags are similar or identical.

No fingerprinting exercise is mentioned, either they didn’t do it, or they couldn’t find any fingerprints.



HOW AND WHEN DID THALIA DIE? WHEN WAS HER BODY DUMPED?
Andrew Wolodzko, M.D., Deputy Medical Examiner for Nassau County, conducted an autopsy. His examination revealed multiple skull and hand fractures, as well as a fractured hyoid. A toxicology report revealed that no drugs were found in the body. Thalia's death, according to the autopsy, was caused by homicide, specifically blunt force trauma, including multiple blows to Thalia's head. Due to the magnitude of the fractures to the skull, either blow could have been lethal. Accordingly, Dr. Wolodzko identified the cause of death as blunt force head trauma. He also testified that a hyoid fracture is "the hallmark of manual strangulation." He could not tell, however, whether strangulation occurred before or after the blows to the skull.

The prosecution calls an entomologist on the stand to give a testimony that Thalia has been dead for a long period, based on insect activity. However, this is more focused on TOD, prosecution fails elaborate whether or not the body was placed at the discovery site immediately after she was dead, which could be a much simpler matter of observation. Normally it can be inferred that the body is put there mid September 2007. But this is NOT made official.


PHONE RECORDS
A suspicious phone activity may be phone going dead for several hours as in the Kaysi McLeod murder. http://scottleekimball.com/tag/walden/
Prosecution does not refer to a suspicious phone [Francois] activity. That means Francois’s phone is on all the time.

Court Documents
Defendant stated he had last seen and spoken to Stathis on September 14, 2007, when he picked her up from work and dropped her off at her apartment between 2:00 and 3:30 in the morning. Defendant claimed that Thalia wanted him to spend the night with her but he left after dropping her off.

According to telephone records, Thalia's last outgoing call was made to defendant's telephone at 1:56 a.m. on the morning of September 14. The last time Thalia's cellphone was active was at 2:51 a.m. that morning, when an incoming call from defendant's phone was forwarded to voicemail. Telephone records also revealed that at the time of both calls, Thalia's phone was within the area of Hackensack Hospital, a short distance from the Arena Diner.



THE SEARCH PARTY
October 15, 2007
News Reports
Law enforcement officials and a team of volunteers searched the cliffs of the Palisades Sunday for a missing Cliffside Park woman.

http://goo.gl/OMtGaa

The area being searched overlooks Ross Dock in the Palisades Interstate Park in Fort Lee. Members of the Cliffside Park and Englewood Cliffs Police Department, as well as the Bergen County Prosecutors Office combed the area from 10 a.m. until 5 p.m. About 30 volunteers from the New Jersey Search and Rescue Squad also helped. The officers are believed to be looking for twenty eight year old Thalia Stathis who was reported missing by co-workers at the Arena diner in Hackensack on September 15. Stathis's live-in boyfriend Hugues Francois has been in police custody on drug related charges since that time. Late last week Francois bail was increased when blood was discovered in his car. Police have not confirmed if that blood belonged to Stathis.


1. In addition to other theories, prosecution probably subpoenaed the phone records and the search is carried out where his phone picks signal, i.e. they don’t observe Francois’s phone moving to Long Island.

2. It is possible that Francois’s started to attack Thalia in the car, then continued in the bathroom, then tucked her body in bags, left his cell open in an area to thwart the police, dumped the body on Long Island and came back to take the phone. That makes him a smart criminal.

3. If the phone was with him all the way to Long Island prosecution could easily find images of the car on surveillance video (as in Evans Ganthier case – Rebecca Koster murder), since they hint the body is carried in the trunk. Francois must cross bridges, these records may be kept longer than usual CCTV footage. Still, prosecution does not make any reference to surveillance videos, whether they ever searched for it.


Court Documents
Defendant stated that he returned to the apartment later on the evening of September 14 to drive Thalia to work but she was not there. He returned to the apartment a few hours later but Thalia was not there and did not answer his telephone call. Defendant contacted the Arena Diner and was told Thalia was not at work.

Defendant called the diner again on September 15 and 23 and also called Thalia's cell phone on September 15, 16, and 21. He returned to her apartment on a daily basis after September 14 "just to see if she was there."


3. Francois calling Thalia repeatedly, now that is the most striking piece of EVIDENCE for me. Based on the call records Francois either has got nothing to do with Thalia’s disappearance or he is perfectly mimicking an innocent person. If latter is the case, that makes Francois an “excellent” criminal in my opinion. I have an ongoing bet that Michael Pak never called Shannan Gilbert (when he is on his own) after May 1st, 2010. However, that will contradict with the facts given below.



THE HISTORY AND NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THALIA AND FRANCOIS
Court Documents
They spoke with defendant, who informed them that he lived in the apartment with Stathis, his girlfriend of approximately three years, and that he had not seen her for about a week. Defendant was arrested on charges unrelated to this matter.

Francois is capable of maintaining an affair for at least two years (based on news reports) and court documents. Despite Thalia was seen in bruises, she’s OK with going to her home with Francois. There are also witness reports that the relationship was not an unusual affair.

Court Documents
Defendant also presented the testimony of several of Thalia's neighbors, who found nothing disturbing or unusual in defendant's interactions with Thalia.


FRANCOIS IS A FREELOADER
According to Thalia’s mother Thalia bought the car Francois is driving. Francois also lives in her house. Francois is a freeloader and he admits it. That’s the nature of the relationship in past three years.

Court Documents
After Thalia was missing for a few days, defendant became concerned about paying the bills. He admitted he had written and signed a check from Thalia's account to pay a cable bill despite the fact that he did not have permission to use her account. Bank records revealed that the last transaction for Thalia's bank account was a forged check to Time Warner Cable that was cashed on September 17, 2007.

Several items linked to Thalia, including her ATM card and pin number, were found in the interior of the car. A floor mat was missing from the front passenger side of the vehicle.

Prosecution implies Francois is a callous bum who keeps living on the money of the woman he killed. Remember the house belongs to Thalia and Francois pays Thalia’s cable bill for his own comfort. Prosecution fails how the ATM card and the pin number ended up in the car. Francois plays perfect phone tricks but he becomes a donk when it comes to bank things? If Francois is a smart criminal yet careless enough to write a check for cable why doesn’t he write a check for new upholstery in his car? He wasn’t questioned about these curious details, neither by the prosecution nor his own attorney. To that end, prosecution fails to prove charge #2.

WITNESS TESTIMONIES
1. Defendant also presented the testimony of several of Thalia's neighbors, who found nothing disturbing or unusual in defendant's interactions with Thalia.

2. In addition, two taxi drivers testified for the defense. Each testified that he had driven Thalia to the Lincoln Tunnel Motel in North Bergen, where she met a man. One of the taxi drivers testified that he drove Thalia to the motel in September 2007. This was a motel that defendant had identified as a place he visited to get high on drugs.

3. It wasn’t unusual for his girlfriend of two years to disappear.

These are claims that can be verified, but neither the prosecution nor the defense does that. How does Francois and Thalia meet and start a relationship is not elaborated. Thalia may be a casual drug user, this is not elaborated as well.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can continue a lot but I think the above is more than enough, I assume point is made. Prosecution’s case is weak, at least not as strong as it should be and I’m not trying to exonerate Francois, as a matter of fact I’m quite wary about the whole exoneration thing. More details are in the references below.

Now, we’re in July 2008. Remember where Thalia’s body was found?

Thalia Stathis went missing from Hackensack, NJ. September 14th, 2007. Her body was found on July 9th, 2008 on the side of a road on the Southern State Parkway in the North Merrick.
http://goo.gl/N8V9l9


Now, move east about a mile on the map to find the next intersection on Southern State Parkway.
http://goo.gl/vGBvUs


Tanya Rush was a drug addicted prostitute living in Brooklyn, projects. She went missing in June 2008 and she was found in a suitcase on the Newbridge Road exit on the westbound Southern State Parkway in North Bellmore on June 27, 2008. The body was dismembered.

As a matter of fact, it was the discovery of Tanya's body that lead to the discovery of Thalia's body. There was a heightened state of alert in DOT cleaning crew and police officers.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a theory that puts the Asian Male (my POI is from Brooklyn as well) on Gilgo Beach in Summer 2005 and the Mom and the Baby after 2008, maybe even later than early 2009. If I’m correct about the Asian Male the perpetrators may have ties to New Jersey as well as Brooklyn.

Now, remember Maureen Brainard Barnes was killed in July 2007 and Melissa Barthelemy was killed in 2009. What happens in the gap?

There may be a lot of explanations, but three of them stand out for me.

1) There is no connection between Thalia Stathis and Tanya Rush murders. It’s pure coincidence.
2) Hugues Francois have accomplices who learned from Thalia Stathis murder that the intersections on Southern State Parkway are excellent places to dump bodies.
3) New Jersey got the wrong guy.


News reports and stuff can be googled, I only add the following.

http://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/appellate-division-unpublished/2012/a0757-10.html
 
Quoted from linked thread.

The GB4 are named here as well as Shannan. I'm going to start looking at the girls mentioned above...anybody wants to help that would be great. The quote didn't come forward but please look at the first few posts...lots of potential vics there...especially look at carbuff's post.
 
BLOOD STAINS

I- Lab results from blood found in the trunk of his car didn't produce a match, but it is "consistent" with Stathis' DNA, Assistant Bergen County Prosecutor Catherine Fantuzzi told the judge Tuesday.

II- Prosecutors said blood found in the trunk of Francois' car is consistent with that of Stathis' parents.

To all the pro or non-pro posters out there.

We have a victim. We have her DNA. We have a blood stain. Blood of the victim. But the sample from the stain does not generate a match with the victim. How come?
 
TWO BAGGED BODIES JOLT CREW - Thursday, July 10, 1997

The dismembered bodies of a man and woman were found in four garbage bags yesterday by a crew clearing trash from a Brooklyn parking lot, police said. "I've seen stuff like this in the movies, but never for real," said Jose Rodriguez, 16, who made the grisly discovery around 9 a.m. behind the Borinquen housing project on Moore St. in Williamsburg.


Location
https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...4444,616m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0

Jose was one of four teens and two adults on the team, whose members earn $5 an hour from the Housing Authority for summer cleanup work. The crew had cleaned the same parking lot the previous morning. Cops believe the bags were dumped after the crew came through. Cleaner Maribel Resto, 40, noticed the four black bags on the ground near the parking lot wall and asked Jose if they had missed the bags Tuesday.

"We tried to pick up one bag, but it was too heavy," Resto said. Jose picked up a lighter bag and tossed it into the trash cart. Noticing blood seeping from the bag, he untied the knot and looked inside. "I took a deep breath," he said. "There were legs. I didn't want to see nothing else.

One bag contained the torso of a woman; she had been decapitated. Another bag contained the man's torso. The remaining two bags contained the pair's arms and legs. Autopsies will be conducted today.

The police said the victims had been dead for 6 to 12 hours and had probably been dumped at the housing project sometime before dawn. One bag contained the woman's torso and head, another her arms and legs. A third bag contained the torso and head of the man, the fourth his arms and legs.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2-bagged-bodies-jolt-crew-article-1.777684

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/07/10/nyregion/teen-agers-find-dismembered-bodies-in-brooklyn.html

PS: If I remember correctly, there was a link stating the male victim was later identified but I can not find it right now. I'll add that if I come across
 
ANDRE JAMAL ISAAC aka Sugar Bear


A 25 year old drag queen from Brooklyn is murdered and dismembered, body parts dumped in Queens and Long Island.


Tuesday, December 17, 2002
HEADLESS TORSO FOUND IN WEEDED ARVERNE LOT


Police from the 100 Precinct, as well as officers from the Emergency Service Unit (ESU) responded to an anonymous tip that there was a body in a plastic bag on Beach 63 Street between Larkin Avenue and the boardwalk. In the bag, police say they found a "partial human torso" without head or extremities. On Wednesday, Ellen Borakove, a spokesperson for the Medical Examiner, told The Wave that it was a male torso, but that further tests would be necessary to ascertain his age, how long he had been dead and the cause of death.

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/4....7923671,617m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
There are several settlements in the area today, but in 2002 it was an undeveloped lot.



January 25, 2003
HEAD FOUND ON LONG ISLAND ICE POND


A Long Island couple enjoying an afternoon skating on a frozen pond yesterday happened upon a gruesome sight – a detached human head sticking out of the ice, police said.

The head of a white adult male was spotted around 12 p.m. yesterday on one of the Twin Ponds near the corner of Montauk Highway and Barnes Road in the town of Moriches, cops said.

A Suffolk County Police Department spokesman said the head was being examined for identification and to determine cause of death.

Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...9194,615m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0


White... The head belongs to a black man. Mistakes with the race, always happen. The victim is ANDRE JAMAL ISAAC aka Sugar Bear. He is a black drag queen from Brooklyn disappeared shortly before Thanksgiving 2002, (Nov 28). He is a big guy. Gun is used this time.



January 27, 2003
BULLET HOLE IN SEVERED HEAD


A human head found on the ice of a Long Island skating pond belonged to a man who had been shot, Suffolk County police said yesterday.

The head was spotted protruding through the ice by two skaters on the shoreline of a pond in Moriches on Saturday. It was taken by police to the Suffolk County Medical Examiner’s Office for inspection.

Police Officer Bob McLaren said neither the race nor the identity of the man have been determined, and that police have not yet found the rest of the body.

McLaren said medical examiners determined that the head had a gunshot wound.





March 6, 2003
A partial human torso that was found in a plastic bag on Beach 63 Street between Larken Street and the boardwalk on Dec. 17, 2002 about 11:30 a.m. has been determined by medical examiners to belong to a male, said police. The investigation has been reclassified as a homicide, and was ongoing, police said. The victim remains unidentified.



November 24, 2007
Police are searching for the killer of “Sugar Bear,” a professional drag queen from Brooklyn – whose head was found frozen in the ice of a Long Island pond by skaters in 2003.

Police say that the killer dumped the head, with a single bullet wound to the head, in the frozen pond, where it was found on January 25, 2003.

The killer had dumped the head, with a single bullet wound in the temple, in the pond in Moriches, where it was found on Jan. 25, 2003, said Detective Lt. Jack Fitzpatrick, commander of the Suffolk County Police Homicide Squad.

Arms and legs belonging to the same victim were later found in a plastic bag miles away in Suffolk County.

Possible Location:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.8610262,-72.6726582,1229m/data=!3m1!1e3
Possible date of discovery: Fall 2007

The body parts are disposed with a ride on Sunrise Highway this time, not LI Expressway.


It took Suffolk detectives almost a year and a half to identify the victim as Andre Jamal Isaac, 25, of East New York, the grandson of a Vietnam POW.

DNA tests done in Suffolk linked the body parts to a torso found clad in a skirt, black body suit and tank top in Arverne on December 17, 2002.

(1) In January of 2004, police officials came up with an artist's rendition of the dead man.

(2) Detectives showed photos of his head to transvestites in Manhattan.

It is probably 1, not 2

In May 2004, one drag queen told a detective, “Hey, that looks like Sugar Bear.” Another knew Isaac’s real name, and detectives found his mother, Kim Long Jordan, 50, on Long Island.

Jordan gave investigators a key piece of information: One of her son’s pals had seen Isaac just before Thanksgiving getting into a car with a “secret friend.” He was never seen again.

“He went out without a coat and said he would be right back. He left his pocketbook,” she said. Fitzpatrick said the car was a red, BMW-type coupe with “nice rims” driven by a Hispanic man.


It is December 2002. The torso and left foot of Jane Doe 2000 was discovered in Manorville along with John Doe 2000 with not much fuss. On Gilgo Beach there's the head of the Fire Island Lady (1996) and the right foot, head and arms of Jane Doe 2000. Seems like Gilgo Beach hasn't yet proven its long standing confidentiality to come. Peaches Doe's head and extremities? Where are they?


http://www.rockawave.com/news/2002-12-21/Front_Page/C-Headless1221.html
http://www.rockawave.com/news/2007-11-30/front_page/001.html
http://nypost.com/2007/11/24/hunt-for-clues-in-tranny-slay/
http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2003/10/20030306-archive35.html
http://nypost.com/2003/01/27/bullet-hole-in-severed-head/
 

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