Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

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Can we assume that most sex workers dont have family ties? Their disapperances go unnoticed. Thats was not the case with the GB4. I wonder if that was a calculated move on the part of the killer? He wanted their disapperance to go noticed. He wanted their absence to affect others. That would say something about his family life. Screwed up.
 
deedee21 said:
Can we assume that most sex workers dont have family ties? Their disapperances go unnoticed. Thats was not the case with the GB4. I wonder if that was a calculated move on the part of the killer? He wanted their disapperance to go noticed. He wanted their absence to affect others. That would say something about his family life. Screwed up.
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I wonder if the G4 were chosen because of the area code of their cell phones in the CL ads? Maureen probably had a CT number and Megan could have had a Maine #, I don't know about Melissa or Amber. The killer had called Amber on Dave's phone that last time I think, so it was probably a New York #, but I think the killer was familiar with Amber from her previous ads like the ones with Kim. think he knew she was from the south cause of their SOuthern Belle sisters ads.

I think LISK is the type of guy who check out ALL the ads on CL/Backpage and all the reviews on Utopiaguide. Most of those guys seem pretty familiar with what's "available". One thing people always say is killer would only browse CL/BP in a way that can't be traced, like TOR or a proxy. I don't know about that. I feel like the killer spends way to much time mongering and isn't that tech savy and he browses on his computer nd feels that as long he only uses a burner to contact the girls that's enough precaution
 
Have we ever discussed the possibility that the K9 unit officer might have overheard something or got a tip about remains being dumped on OP? Do we know if the 'training' session was actually training or was it an actual search for Shannon? I remember that being questioned when the first body was found.
 
PictureSnatcher said:
I wonder if the G4 were chosen because of the area code of their cell phones in the CL ads? Maureen probably had a CT number and Megan could have had a Maine #, I don't know about Melissa or Amber. The killer had called Amber on Dave's phone that last time I think, so it was probably a New York #, but I think the killer was familiar with Amber from her previous ads like the ones with Kim. think he knew she was from the south cause of their SOuthern Belle sisters ads.

I think LISK is the type of guy who check out ALL the ads on CL/Backpage and all the reviews on Utopiaguide. Most of those guys seem pretty familiar with what's "available". One thing people always say is killer would only browse CL/BP in a way that can't be traced, like TOR or a proxy. I don't know about that. I feel like the killer spends way to much time mongering and isn't that tech savy and he browses on his computer nd feels that as long he only uses a burner to contact the girls that's enough precaution
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There's good evidence he targets these types of girls.

In turmoil. prostituting. Off the grid. Not even really connected to pimps nor do they know their surrounding areas. He catches these girls like they are fish out of water.


He is tech savvy enough to know to make his harassment calls from time square, keep them short duration and not be at the same spot.


He's familiar with investigation tactics and has a decent understanding of technology. I wouldn't be surprised if he reads these forums. Most serial killers are narcissists and through the phone calls we know he craves some attention. Recently I read that NBA owners and GMs read internet forums like realgm or reddit to hear fan chatter on trades and stuff. I get the feel a serial killer would do the same being that they naturally like the attention.
 
PickleChris said:
Have we ever discussed the possibility that the K9 unit officer might have overheard something or got a tip about remains being dumped on OP? Do we know if the 'training' session was actually training or was it an actual search for Shannon? I remember that being questioned when the first body was found.
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I believe Dormer said the above was a combination of both. Training session and search. He did say the dog avoided the marsh.
 
EpiVox444 said:
yeah, if he's an outdoorsman of any kind though... no one close to him would think anything of a few scratches on his arms.And if the killer wore pants and long sleeves, might not be any scratches at all. I really don't see this killer as being a middle class/professional type like some do. I see him being a landscaper/tree trimmer/carpentry type guy. Possibly with drug/alcohol addictions himself. Just look at the recent serial killer found in Ohio. People tend to overthink just because he's been so elusive (or perhaps just lucky). Just because someone uses burner phones doesn't make them 'technologically savvy'.
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I agree! My POI had several phones. one for work, one for personal life, and one for his extra curricular activities (multiple girlfriends). He was a Project Manager on commercial retail stores being built. He was the first person I thought of when the discovery of the AC girls were found. He had been in the Atlantic City area for several months while he was working. Then he was on Long Island for several months for work also.

He always had women throwing themselves on him and giving their phone numbers to him. He and I would be out having breakfast and they did it right in front of me not knowing what his status with me was. It was crazy, crazy to see!! He also worked as a bouncer at clubs during the summer months in the area.
 
Neptune said:
(Welcome to Websleuths!)
I disagree with Mr. Brendt that this is “trophy” collection. I think LISK is OCD to the nth degree. A perfectionist who can’t handle anything out of place or off-symmetry.

Here’s what I think: LISK knows the Oak Beach/Gilgo area and scouted this location for his first victim (Maureen) before finding and killing her in 2007. She is the first victim LISK placed on this strip of land. His preferred disposal method is the world’s largest dumping ground: the ocean. I believe LISK is an avid winter boater, with a boat in a slip or at-the-ready all winter long. He chose an alternate “land” disposal site out of necessity because he wanted to avoid the throngs during boating season – from Memorial Day (when people put their boats in the water) thru Labor Day (when they take them out). He is not a “seasonal” killer – he’s just cognizant about what the season means for his nocturnal activity and how he must mitigate the risk of being caught. I also believe his profession requires him to be most active and about during the May-Sep time of year and the kind of vehicle he drives would not raise suspicion if it was stopped along a desolate roadside at night.

If you use Google Earth (free download) and pin these locations you’ll find an interesting pattern and what has given me the impression of precise measurement. Consider this:

Bodies disposed of here:
40°37'29.22"N 73°22'31.43"W – Maureen, 2007-July
40°37'27.97"N 73°22'35.80"W – Melissa, 2009-July
40°37'30.28"N 73°22'28.28"W – Megan, 2010-June
40°37'26.93"N 73°22'38.90"W – Amber, 2010-Sept

Markers: Beginning of tree line 40°37'31.25"N 73°22'24.63"W and concrete patch (there in 2007 per GE historic image tool) 40°37'30.88"N 73°22'24.28"W

Distance from both markers:
First victim placed 0.11 m
LISK thinking: about 1/10 of a mile from concrete patch/start of tree line​
Second victim placed 0.18 m
LISK thinking: not quite twice the distance of victim 1, but far enough​
Third victim placed 0.06 m
LISK thinking: half the distance of victim 1​
Fourth victim placed 0.22 m
LISK thinking: about 1/20 of a mile from concrete patch/start of tree line and twice the distance of first victim​

For someone to remember, without notes, where he placed his victims – a memory device seems the way to go. If you are familiar with this area already all it takes is to remember the turnaround in the road across from the beach (40°37'32.53"N 73°22'18.02"W) and just beyond that there is a concrete patch and the tree line starts… this is where to push the trip odometer reset button. This measurement method satisfies LISK’s need for symmetry and uniformity in all that he does. The distances may not be in precise increments, but they are close enough and time is of the essence so there is risk in making them exact. The length of vehicle is also a variable. Like if LISK drove a super duty-type pickup truck, for example. Not hard to imagine something like this being extremely useful in tick-infested brush:
http://allamericanautomobiles.com/car/66207567.html
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Thanks for all this good information.... It made me think a bit about the "when" of the disposal. There are a couple of clues to me that he dumped them all at one time, after killing Amber. His phone calls that we know about, he was saying things that indicated he still had MB body nearly a month after she disappeared. It's very possible he kept these girls alive for a long period of time, locked up. Between the last killing and when they were discovered a few months had passed, more than enough time for them to be skeltonized... JMO
 
If this is a killer who got to know all four victims well before killing them, made sure they told no one, then surely there must be a way of linking all four to one client. I.e. Girls noticing one John with all four at least once, or one restaurant, or one hotel? It happened in England with the Suffolk Strangler I think. He laid his victims out like a crucifix



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That's the strangest thing about this case. It seems logical that there should be that link between all 4 women. However, as far as we know police have been unable to find that missing link. I know I have spent countless hours trying to find it and have failed to do so. Of course I don't have all the information that the LE does.
 
I thought the fact they were sex workers, in the Long Island area was the logical link.

I believe that is all the killer was looking for in his victims.
 
WINDSOR said:
I thought the fact they were sex workers, in the Long Island area was the logical link.

I believe that is all the killer was looking for in his victims.
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The women working in the sex industry is certainly a link. What I meant was a link like the same IP address of someone who contacted them or the same phone number of a person who called them. That’s the missing link I was referring to. It’s strange nothing like that has come up.
 
I have reason to assume that the LISK is very astute and has refined his methodology so to minimize any potential links. I do understand what you are saying, and often when these links are discovered they lead to the criminal. In this case he appears to be very confident that these links are very deep or non-existent.

As of this time, either he has left the area and is active somewhere else, or is ill, dead or incarcerated and therefore not active. This is what makes it so challenging, there is no information or data regarding his recent activity.

It was 19 years before police arrested Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, and he operated in mainly one locale.

These serial killers can be very tough to apprehend.
 
In my theory is the original 4 are LISK due to the M.O the 4 body’s found were in almost a perfect line and equal distances from each other LISK seems to be and obsessive killer possible signs of OCD due to how they were laid out LISK is meticulous in his method the other body’s are just circumstantial due the the proximity to the 4, the other body’s are most likely another serial killer or a random assortment of single killers if finding LISK is the priority looking at the original 4 is the best way to catch LISK. Also it is most likely that since LISK’s first garden was found he would have started a new one in LI if not some other place in the US that LISK has lived for a while to know the area well enough to be confident in a new burial site, we just need to keep an eye out for a similar MO of meticulously placed body’s at equal lengths from each other. LISK is methodical and careful especially after the last site was discovered LISK will be more careful. I don’t think LISK is a impulse killer More likely is a meticulous killer, plans who to kill and how to burry them before executing the plan. I will understand there will be people who think differently to me and even more due to me being a new member but I thought I would come here to voice my theory due to recently watching The Killing Season becoming aware of this site and doing more researching into the case after watching it


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coffeeandacig said:
Thank you for the key No its not.

Forgive me if this has already been covered. I'm new to the LISK case, and have only spent a little time on UID cases. Has the GB4 been looked at as his "signature" piece? Akin to signing a painting at the bottom of a canvas? He could be leaving his initials, which to me, would spell out M.A.B.

Also, if this suggestion has been made before, and summarily dispersed, please ignore. But, regarding the trap that he sets for his victims, is it at all possible that this person on several occasions used these women for nude models? The victims remain objects to him, leaves no DNA, and gives the victims a sense of security because he is after all, an artist just needing a model?
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I think you might be right. Amber went dressed very casually to her appt - also when Dave Schaller mentioned something about that date she responded with "That's not what he wants". LISK could have said he was a photographer and he had all the clothes for the photos (or it could have been nude modeling) -"so you don't need to bring anything....Stay all weekend, we'll pay you $1500".
 
twocuriouscats said:
[/U][/B]
I think you might be right. Amber went dressed very casually to her appt - also when Dave Schaller mentioned something about that date she responded with "That's not what he wants". LISK could have said he was a photographer and he had all the clothes for the photos (or it could have been nude modeling) -"so you don't need to bring anything....Stay all weekend, we'll pay you $1500".
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Yea that’s a good thought but him not wanting them to know where he was takeing them would arise suspicions if he said he was a photographer. He may have said something along the lines of I want to take out on a date iam not bringing my phone nither should you I want it to be just the two of us and since he’s paying $1500 or whatever it was he didn’t want the interruption now it could have been both he could have said he was a photographer as well but to get these girls to go with him wasn’t as hard as everyone thinks.
 
I think Dr Hackett needs to be looked at as a suspect again. The Gilgo Beach four would only leave their cell phones behind for one reason... they were told the cell phones would interfere with his defibrillator. They were offered an extraordinary amount of money for their services, believed his story about the cell phones, and figured, as a doctor and one with a heart problem at that, he was not a threat. After seeing the clip where he is being interviewed in the parking lot and falls to the ground clutching his chest claiming his defibrillator went off I thought he had a perfect ruse to trick the girls. Anyone have any thoughts on my theory?
 
Soil love said:
I think Dr Hackett needs to be looked at as a suspect again. The Gilgo Beach four would only leave their cell phones behind for one reason... they were told the cell phones would interfere with his defibrillator. They were offered an extraordinary amount of money for their services, believed his story about the cell phones, and figured, as a doctor and one with a heart problem at that, he was not a threat. After seeing the clip where he is being interviewed in the parking lot and falls to the ground clutching his chest claiming his defibrillator went off I thought he had a perfect ruse to trick the girls. Anyone have any thoughts on my theory?
Click to expand...


No I don’t belive that there are other reasons the Gilgo 4 left the phones very simple lisk was giveing them more money to have a girlfriend experience he most likely said something like i want it to be just us basically saying he didn’t want the pimp calling. A lot of times these girls think there intuition works all the time it don’t with a SK it’s hard to see through social mimicry but you can learn to spot when a psychopath is interviewing you unfortuently the GB4 didn’t learn how to do that.
 
Soil love said:
I think Dr Hackett needs to be looked at as a suspect again. The Gilgo Beach four would only leave their cell phones behind for one reason... they were told the cell phones would interfere with his defibrillator. They were offered an extraordinary amount of money for their services, believed his story about the cell phones, and figured, as a doctor and one with a heart problem at that, he was not a threat. After seeing the clip where he is being interviewed in the parking lot and falls to the ground clutching his chest claiming his defibrillator went off I thought he had a perfect ruse to trick the girls. Anyone have any thoughts on my theory?
Click to expand...
I had a very odd reaction when i saw him do that...thanks for putting it into words.

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