Clever or Lucky?

Clever or Lucky

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SuperDave said:
9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam.
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So far 100% reckon they're just lucky, no one has voted for clever. Let's see, can we make a list of their luck in order of importance? I'll start....

1. Incompetent Cops
2. Corrupt DA
3. Stupid Coroner
4. Superhero Attorney(s)
5. Useless Experts
6. Suspect Collusion (lucky or clever??)
7. No witnesses
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie) (lucky or clever??)
9. The pediatrician not bothering to conduct a vaginal exam
10.The hardware store losing their sales records.


Ok, this is going real good. Looking forward to the next instalment.
 
MurriFlower said:
8. Using a pen that distorted writing (sharpie) (lucky or clever??)
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If RDI,stupid,for writing it in the first place.And I repeat myself,the R's weren't stupid people.So they staged the scene,the crime,got rid of all the incriminating evidence,panties,tape,cord,but wrote a 3 pg RN and left the pad&pen AND evidence of a practice note right there.Something's not right with this scenario.
If IDI,clever.
 
SuperDave said:
Depending on what kind of gloves they are, anywhere from a little to a lot. (I tried that particular experiment.)
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If RDI,PR wore gloves right cause there are no prints on the RN (only on the pad and it's normal for her prints to be there).
And if she wore gloves that must have altered her handwriting.Doesn't this mean that the handwriting "sample" is "contaminated" now and all analysis in the world won't be able to tell us the truth?
 
madeleine said:
If RDI,stupid,for writing it in the first place.And I repeat myself,the R's weren't stupid people.
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I agree they weren't, but this "stupid to write it" argument is an old one, and it just doesn't do it for me. They created a crime, so they needed a criminal to go with it. The RN does that. Obviously, it's not very clever, but that's why I started this poll in the first place.

Unless, as you seem to have suggested earlier (and correct me if I'm wrong), one of them was smarter than the other and was setting them up for a fall.

So they staged the scene,the crime,got rid of all the incriminating evidence,panties,tape,cord,but wrote a 3 pg RN and left the pad&pen AND evidence of a practice note right there.
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Something like that.

Something's not right with this scenario.
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Something's not right with every scenario, Maddy. But you knew that.

If RDI,PR wore gloves right cause there are no prints on the RN (only on the pad and it's normal for her prints to be there).
And if she wore gloves that must have altered her handwriting.Doesn't this mean that the handwriting "sample" is "contaminated" now and all analysis in the world won't be able to tell us the truth?
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That's a very sobering thought, maddy. You may very well be right.
 
Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done. Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
 
I have to say that I have looked at that RN many, many times. And I am not going to say this because I am RDI but rather I am RDI because of this, but the handwriting comparisons I have seen, to me, match Patsy's without a doubt. I have a feeling the DA's office thought it did, too. I am thinking of Assistant DA Pete Hofstrom making this comment: " So what if she wrote the note- it doesn't mean she killed her kid." He was right- it doesn't. But it means she knows who killed her kid.
 
joeskidbeck said:
Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done. Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
Click to expand...

It would have been smarter to break a window or mess with a door,make some money "dissapear",etc.The RN (if they were stupid enough to write it,which I don't believe anymore) leads right back to them.
Better,dispose of the body,they had money,connections,a plane,why risk so much.
 
joeskidbeck said:
Suppose for a moment that you believe one of the R's killed JB (you don't have to really believe it, just try to think as if you did). Her body is in the basement, there are no signs of a break-in and you know there is no evidence of an intruder in the house. Without that ransom note there is no way you can call the police (or anyone else). There will be no doubt that someone in the home that night killed her. It would only take a little while for the police (no matter how inept they were) to dedeuce who killed her. One of the Ramseys would have ratted out the other. You may think they weren't very clever but the rn saved someone's neck. In hindsight, that rn is the smartest thing they could have done.
Click to expand...

Ok, well I can try this. Now I've just killed my daughter, whom I loved, but I could not tolerate her bed wetting. Urine just made me so mad I threw or pushed her so hard that she had her head bashed in. I didn't mean to do it, but honestly, she was just so intolerably incontinent! I therefore decided that rather than call for help I really needed to do something to cover up for my mistake in smashing her skull. So, I took her to the basement and lay her on the floor near the door to the winecellar. I then looked around for something to kill her with. So, I found some cord stored down there and cut off a length. Oh, that's right, I had to go back upstairs and find that Swiss Army knife that LHP had taken off Burke (now where did she say she put it?) oh yes, in the closet. Back down to the basement, cut off a length of cord and put it around my daughter's neck. Pull it tight, that should do it. Oh dear, that hurts my hands, so I'd better find something to tie it around. Well, that's lucky, here's my paint tote and I'll just use this old paintbrush, first break off the brush then the pointy end. Oh gosh how about first I shove this broken end up her vagina, to make it look like a sexual pervert did this, I'm brilliant. Now, to wrap it around the paintbrush/stick, and pull as tightly as I can. Ok, well that's done, she seems to be dead at last. Now, I'd better get a blanket from the dryer to wrap her in. What else? Oh yes, some tape for her mouth would look good. Where is that tape now? Upstairs to find the tape in the drawer. Oooops that was lucky, nearly tore it off with my fingers, better find some gloves, so I don't leave any prints on the tape. Where are those pesky gloves. Oh here they are. Now just tear a little bit off, don't need much, afterall she's already dead so she isn't going to try to get it off is she? Oh, this is looking really like some intruder broke in and killed her. What else would someone like this do? Oh yes, tie up her hands. Just to cut a bit more cord off and do a tie of her hands. Oh bugger, they're above her head and a bit stiff. No matter, I'll just put it on anyway, no one will notice.

I can't really leave her here, someone might see her. I'll just take her into the winecellar and leave her in the dark, it might be days before she's found. Ooops, lucky I'm really thinking. Best go and get some different shoes on before I go in there, because there's all this mould/dust stuff on the floor and I don't want to leave my own footprints in it. Back upstairs to find a pair of sneakers just like an intruder would wear. Boy, all this up and down stairs should lose me some weight and keep me looking young and beautiful! Ok, well she's safely in the winecellar. What else can I do to make this whole thing look genuine? I know, a suitcase under an open window will make it look as if someone escaped through there - I'm just so clever! Ok, well I think I'm all done here. I'll just go upstairs and write a two and a half page ransom note in order to explain all this and no one will be any the wiser about what I did tonight.

Now pretend that you believe an intruder did it. Why in the world did he leave a ransom note? He had to know there would be no money coming since she was dead in the home and why in the world would he risk evidence of his being there after being soooo careful to not leave any other evidence? It makes no sense.
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This is such fun Beck.

Ok now I'm an intruder who did this. Here's what I'm thinking.

I need money. They have money. They take no care at all with the amount they spend, it means nothing to them. Do you know he got $118,000 bonus last year?? That's a BONUS, not his salary - what must that be? It's obscene!! I'd really like to get my hands on some of this wasted cash. You know, if you could figure out a way to get him to hand just some of this over, without being caught, (I don't want millions, even his annual bonus would be good) I reckon it would serve them right. Rude children, untidy parents, don't teach their children manners, parade them in pageants like baby prostitutes, treat people like they are beneath them. Yeah, I'd really enjoy that. You know, if they THOUGHT someone had kidnapped their precious little JonBenet (what kind of name is that?), I reckon they'd hand over cash without even asking questions, provided it wasn't too much money. What you could do is get into the house one night while the family is asleep, no you won't wake the parents, cause they sleep on a different floor to the kids, and get JBR out of bed (tell her Santa wants to talk to her or something like that- she's a real believer in Santa), you could get her to come downstairs. You might need to feed her something that would put her to sleep for a while, not hurt her mind, just make her sleep for 12 hours or so. Then take her to the basement and tie her up (not too tight, we don't want to cut of the circulation), but if you just put some cord on her hands, wrapped over her jammies and then get a blanket and wrap her up and put some cord or tape around that, she'd be warm and secure. A bit of tape over her mouth in case she wakes up and screams and she'd be sweet. Then get someone to mind her and keep her quiet downstairs (under the house somewhere there's heaps of space under there) until mid-morning. By then, the parents would be frantic, they'd have got the money and we'll arrange somewhere to pick it up. Then we call them and let them know where JBR is (under the house) and they are so grateful, they probably won't even tell the Cops. Now we have to write a RN and make it so scarey that they won't call the cops and spoil the whole plan. We have to think up all the threats from all the movies we've ever seen where tough guys threaten people. Make it sound like we are terrorists, that'll confuse them. Now, I'll have to get someone else to write this, just in case they get suspicious or call the cops in after. Wouldn't it be funny if it was written in handwriting just like PR's. Ha ha ha, what a joke. Now I also need someone to mind JBR. Who though? Don't want someone who is smart enough to want an equal share - just a few thousand or even less if we can swing it. Yep, I know someone, he's not too bright, but can do simple jobs and if he gets caught, well, I'd just say it was nothing to do with me, he must have got the idea from hearing me talk about my 'favourite employers' LOL. It's a simple job just to keep a six year old quiet for a few hours, surely even he can do that? Meanwhile, I'll be home in bed asleep, totally unaware of any of this. Yep, this is a simple but very clever plan. Get ready to be seriously rich. What I could do with $118,000 - I wouldn't waste it like the Rs. No sir.
 
madeleine said:
It would have been smarter to break a window or mess with a door,make some money "dissapear",etc.The RN (if they were stupid enough to write it,which I don't believe anymore) leads right back to them.
Better,dispose of the body,they had money,connections,a plane,why risk so much.
Click to expand...

Maddy, I'd expect those thoughts to occur to a hardened criminal, not a highly agitated amateur.
 
MurriFlower said:
Now I've just killed my daughter, whom I loved, but I could not tolerate her bed wetting. Urine just made me so mad I threw or pushed her so hard that she had her head bashed in. I didn't mean to do it, but honestly, she was just so intolerably incontinent!
Click to expand...

MF, it might interest you to know that the leading cause of inflicted childhood fatalities is "toilet rage." Then again, it might not.

This is such fun Beck.
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WHITEFANG said:
YGG. And luvin it!
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That tells me a lot. I don't find a child's death one bit fun.
 
MurriFlower said:
Ok, well I can try this. Now I've just killed my daughter, whom I loved, but I could not tolerate her bed wetting. Urine just made me so mad I threw or pushed her so hard that she had her head bashed in. I didn't mean to do it, but honestly, she was just so intolerably incontinent! I therefore decided that rather than call for help I really needed to do something to cover up for my mistake in smashing her skull. So, I took her to the basement and lay her on the floor near the door to the winecellar. I then looked around for something to kill her with. So, I found some cord stored down there and cut off a length. Oh, that's right, I had to go back upstairs and find that Swiss Army knife that LHP had taken off Burke (now where did she say she put it?) oh yes, in the closet. Back down to the basement, cut off a length of cord and put it around my daughter's neck. Pull it tight, that should do it. Oh dear, that hurts my hands, so I'd better find something to tie it around. Well, that's lucky, here's my paint tote and I'll just use this old paintbrush, first break off the brush then the pointy end. Oh gosh how about first I shove this broken end up her vagina, to make it look like a sexual pervert did this, I'm brilliant. Now, to wrap it around the paintbrush/stick, and pull as tightly as I can. Ok, well that's done, she seems to be dead at last. Now, I'd better get a blanket from the dryer to wrap her in. What else? Oh yes, some tape for her mouth would look good. Where is that tape now? Upstairs to find the tape in the drawer. Oooops that was lucky, nearly tore it off with my fingers, better find some gloves, so I don't leave any prints on the tape. Where are those pesky gloves. Oh here they are. Now just tear a little bit off, don't need much, afterall she's already dead so she isn't going to try to get it off is she? Oh, this is looking really like some intruder broke in and killed her. What else would someone like this do? Oh yes, tie up her hands. Just to cut a bit more cord off and do a tie of her hands. Oh bugger, they're above her head and a bit stiff. No matter, I'll just put it on anyway, no one will notice.

I can't really leave her here, someone might see her. I'll just take her into the winecellar and leave her in the dark, it might be days before she's found. Ooops, lucky I'm really thinking. Best go and get some different shoes on before I go in there, because there's all this mould/dust stuff on the floor and I don't want to leave my own footprints in it. Back upstairs to find a pair of sneakers just like an intruder would wear. Boy, all this up and down stairs should lose me some weight and keep me looking young and beautiful! Ok, well she's safely in the winecellar. What else can I do to make this whole thing look genuine? I know, a suitcase under an open window will make it look as if someone escaped through there - I'm just so clever! Ok, well I think I'm all done here. I'll just go upstairs and write a two and a half page ransom note in order to explain all this and no one will be any the wiser about what I did tonight.



This is such fun Beck.

Ok now I'm an intruder who did this. Here's what I'm thinking.

I need money. They have money. They take no care at all with the amount they spend, it means nothing to them. Do you know he got $118,000 bonus last year?? That's a BONUS, not his salary - what must that be? It's obscene!! I'd really like to get my hands on some of this wasted cash. You know, if you could figure out a way to get him to hand just some of this over, without being caught, (I don't want millions, even his annual bonus would be good) I reckon it would serve them right. Rude children, untidy parents, don't teach their children manners, parade them in pageants like baby prostitutes, treat people like they are beneath them. Yeah, I'd really enjoy that. You know, if they THOUGHT someone had kidnapped their precious little JonBenet (what kind of name is that?), I reckon they'd hand over cash without even asking questions, provided it wasn't too much money. What you could do is get into the house one night while the family is asleep, no you won't wake the parents, cause they sleep on a different floor to the kids, and get JBR out of bed (tell her Santa wants to talk to her or something like that- she's a real believer in Santa), you could get her to come downstairs. You might need to feed her something that would put her to sleep for a while, not hurt her mind, just make her sleep for 12 hours or so. Then take her to the basement and tie her up (not too tight, we don't want to cut of the circulation), but if you just put some cord on her hands, wrapped over her jammies and then get a blanket and wrap her up and put some cord or tape around that, she'd be warm and secure. A bit of tape over her mouth in case she wakes up and screams and she'd be sweet. Then get someone to mind her and keep her quiet downstairs (under the house somewhere there's heaps of space under there) until mid-morning. By then, the parents would be frantic, they'd have got the money and we'll arrange somewhere to pick it up. Then we call them and let them know where JBR is (under the house) and they are so grateful, they probably won't even tell the Cops. Now we have to write a RN and make it so scarey that they won't call the cops and spoil the whole plan. We have to think up all the threats from all the movies we've ever seen where tough guys threaten people. Make it sound like we are terrorists, that'll confuse them. Now, I'll have to get someone else to write this, just in case they get suspicious or call the cops in after. Wouldn't it be funny if it was written in handwriting just like PR's. Ha ha ha, what a joke. Now I also need someone to mind JBR. Who though? Don't want someone who is smart enough to want an equal share - just a few thousand or even less if we can swing it. Yep, I know someone, he's not too bright, but can do simple jobs and if he gets caught, well, I'd just say it was nothing to do with me, he must have got the idea from hearing me talk about my 'favourite employers' LOL. It's a simple job just to keep a six year old quiet for a few hours, surely even he can do that? Meanwhile, I'll be home in bed asleep, totally unaware of any of this. Yep, this is a simple but very clever plan. Get ready to be seriously rich. What I could do with $118,000 - I wouldn't waste it like the Rs. No sir.
Click to expand...

Surprising. You proved they did it in your RDI scenario better than I ever could have. Thanks.
 
MurriFlower said:
Yup, you'se a real deep thunker!
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There's that sarcasm again. Now that you have been crowned "Genius of the board" by WF, I guess it's gone to your head.
Do you feel it serves the purpose of our discourse here to make rude comments about posters who have different opinions? I don't.
 
joeskidbeck said:
MurriFlower, you have no idea as to the depths of my thoughts. With one possible exception, personal insults will not endear you or your theories to other posters.
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Beck, if you can take that load of bunkum I posted as a possible RDI scenario (meant to show you how ridiculous it is) and tell me seriously that it's a good theory, better in fact than your own, then you deserved that comment.
 
MurriFlower said:
Beck, if you can take that load of bunkum I posted as a possible RDI scenario (meant to show you how ridiculous it is) and tell me seriously that it's a good theory, better in fact than your own, then you deserved that comment.
Click to expand...

I did not mean the theory that you posted was that good. I meant that the detail that you went into was better than I could have done. Not everyone can easily pen their ideas and thoughts. You obviously have that talent, whether or not they are your thoughts.
 
Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
Surprising. You proved they did it in your RDI scenario better than I ever could have. Thanks.
Click to expand...

joeskidbeck said:
I did not mean the theory that you posted was that good. I meant that the detail that you went into was better than I could have done. Not everyone can easily pen their ideas and thoughts. You obviously have that talent, whether or not they are your thoughts.
Click to expand...

Phew!! I thought you were either "takin' the mickey" or you weren't quite "the full quid". :dance:
 
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