The autopsy said blunt force trauma. They would have been able to tell from the bones if she had been decapitated even if there was not enough flesh left....
Physical Evidence
- Thread starter STEADFAST
- Start date
The autopsy said blunt force trauma. They would have been able to tell from the bones if she had been decapitated even if there was not enough flesh left....
JinxieJada
Former Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2006
- Messages
- 929
- Reaction score
- 33
Oh, Im not talking about the causes of death necessarily, just someone getting a little overzealous and hitting in just the right spot but accidentally.
Stupid moment - but I thought when they said Crow bar..they were talking about a tire iron. I seriously, did not know, they were two different things, until I was told in chat. Could it be said crow bar, but actually be a tire iron...or am I the only one that doesn't know that LOL
Oh, Im not talking about the causes of death necessarily, just someone getting a little overzealous and hitting in just the right spot but accidentally.
Stupid moment - but I thought when they said Crow bar..they were talking about a tire iron. I seriously, did not know, they were two different things, until I was told in chat. Could it be said crow bar, but actually be a tire iron...or am I the only one that doesn't know that LOL
Think the 2, if your not into tools, get them mixed up...-)
http://www.ask.com/web?q=What+Does+a+Tire+Iron+Look+like%3F&qsrc=6&o=1247&l=dis
http://www.ask.com/web?q=what+does+a+crowbar+look+like&qsrc=1&o=1247&l=dis
JinxieJada
Former Member
- Joined
- May 8, 2006
- Messages
- 929
- Reaction score
- 33
SeriouslySearching
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2007
- Messages
- 35,527
- Reaction score
- 245
Official: Marine Killed by Crowbar, Baby Was a Girl
Pregnant Marine Cpl. Maria Lauterbach was believed to have been killed by a crowbar blow to the head, a federal law enforcement official involved in the case tells the Blotter on ABCNews.com.
As the search widened for her suspected murderer, Marine Cpl. Cesar Laurean, initial autopsy results on Lauterbach's burned body, found buried in a North Carolina field, indicate that Lauterbach was eight-months pregnant with a baby girl, the official said.
~snip~
"We do have an item that we believe is consistent with the findings of the medical examiner, and we believe it could be the murder weapon," Capt. Rick Sutherland told the Associated Press today.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4155874&page=1
Littledeer
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 2,826
- Reaction score
- 14
Bumping this thread up as it has our earlier discussions on the blood splatters found and the crowbar.
Tom'sGirl
Former Member
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2005
- Messages
- 11,330
- Reaction score
- 10
Don't know if there's a headstone there or not, but yes, the family buried the unborn separately with that name, but a different date of death as did they with Maria's date of death.
oceanblueeyes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 26,446
- Reaction score
- 43,688
I do believe they have much forensic evidence showing that Maria died in the garage, The blood found with luminol in the inside room was most likely transference blood brought into the home when the perp left the garage.
I also believe they have a lot of evidence to back up the clean up and cover up that happened after the initial crime.
However I do not believe that they have forensic evidence that directly points to him as being the one that did the actual murder. Imo they will use circumstantial evidence to infer. It was almost a month later when Maria was recovered. Much was lost during that long time period imo such as fingerprints in blood, fingerprints on weapon and no time of death can be established and remains unknown. Sutherland affirmed that in his last answers on L. Kay's blog.
I have looked at the autopsy drawings several times and I just do not see this injury being done by a crowbar where the cylindrical part has a octagon shape design. The injury is much wider than the slender bar and it is straight on the temple and ear area. If Maria saw this coming by instinct she would have swung her head to the right and the blow would have been more at a diagonal and further back toward the mid or back part of the skull. The injury is a tight area as if crushed in by something wider than a crowbar and there would be multiple fractures splintering out across the skull in that area. I have seen when a ME thinks a victim died from multiple blunt force trauma they always list that on the report. This ME said she died from blunt force trauma causing me to feel this was one blow to the head.
It really bothers me and I do wonder if their case is as strong as all LE tries to portray they are before going to trial. For some reason they are willing to try and sell the bill of goods that Christina is honorable and no one seems to be buying the PR move in Onslow County. I think they need her badly and that is why they are willing to overlook any deceitful thing she may have done. To me it shows they have a weakness in their case and are hoping CSL can pull it out for them. I think they have a risky key witness who may bring her own heavy baggage when she testifies.
imoo
I also believe they have a lot of evidence to back up the clean up and cover up that happened after the initial crime.
However I do not believe that they have forensic evidence that directly points to him as being the one that did the actual murder. Imo they will use circumstantial evidence to infer. It was almost a month later when Maria was recovered. Much was lost during that long time period imo such as fingerprints in blood, fingerprints on weapon and no time of death can be established and remains unknown. Sutherland affirmed that in his last answers on L. Kay's blog.
I have looked at the autopsy drawings several times and I just do not see this injury being done by a crowbar where the cylindrical part has a octagon shape design. The injury is much wider than the slender bar and it is straight on the temple and ear area. If Maria saw this coming by instinct she would have swung her head to the right and the blow would have been more at a diagonal and further back toward the mid or back part of the skull. The injury is a tight area as if crushed in by something wider than a crowbar and there would be multiple fractures splintering out across the skull in that area. I have seen when a ME thinks a victim died from multiple blunt force trauma they always list that on the report. This ME said she died from blunt force trauma causing me to feel this was one blow to the head.
It really bothers me and I do wonder if their case is as strong as all LE tries to portray they are before going to trial. For some reason they are willing to try and sell the bill of goods that Christina is honorable and no one seems to be buying the PR move in Onslow County. I think they need her badly and that is why they are willing to overlook any deceitful thing she may have done. To me it shows they have a weakness in their case and are hoping CSL can pull it out for them. I think they have a risky key witness who may bring her own heavy baggage when she testifies.
imoo
oceanblueeyes
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 26,446
- Reaction score
- 43,688
Very unusual. They list the date of death as 12-15 not 12-14 and on the Probate papers the date of death is the 16th.:waitasec:
Crime-Dreamer
New Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2008
- Messages
- 74
- Reaction score
- 0
There were two caskets. They may have been put in one grave. The baby's casket may have been placed inside the other. I don't know if there are two graves or one.
panthera
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 26,408
- Reaction score
- 73
No way do I see the date of death as 12/16, but I can't figure out why the discrepancy between 12/14 the last known date she was alive and 12/15 when there is no proof she was alive, unless it happened right after midnight. If that's the case, where was she in between the 5:00pm bus ticket purchase and midnight?
Littledeer
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 2,826
- Reaction score
- 14
Here is the timeline we have for the dates of 12/14 through 12/17:
12/14/07 (Friday)
Marines: CL reports to duty
AMW: Maria reports to work - Ends @ Noon
Noon: Work Ends for X-Mas Party on Base
Marines: CL does not attend X-Mas Party
AMW & Marines: Maria does not attend X-Mas Party
2:30 p.m. Maria talks to Mom (Dayton Daily?)
Maria withdraws $700 from BoFA ATM (Fox video)
ATM timeline w/Maria's card. Transcation images show:
12-14-07 FRI
... 16:19:38 -- Maria? approaches Stage R. Sunglasses. Hoodie sweatshirt.
... 16:19:41 -- Lettering on hoodie spells _AYTON?
... 16:19:49 -- May be DAYTON.
... 16:19:57 -- Maria? looks stage Left (toward her R shoulder)
... 16:20:01 -- Maria? half in shot -- some background visible.
... 16:20:03 -- Maria? w/left hand to chin.
... 16:20:18 --
... 16:20:39 -- Maria (pregnant, hair pulled back, sunglasses) exits stage R.
5:00 p.m. Maria purchases 1 way ticket to El Paso, Texas (Last sighting of Maria)
http://www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/...1-11-0006.html
AMW & Marines : Durham finds Note
Marines: Durham calls Maria's Sister
Marines: Durham talks to Maria's Mother
12/15/07 (Saturday)
Cesar tells Christina in Note (found 1/11/08 by Christina) that Maria arrives at their home; went to bus station with Maria to purchase ticket; Maria comes back later in the evening, Maria kills herself.
(Per Christina as told to Sheriff's Office on 1/11/08 and filed in Search Warrant dated 1/12/08).
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17/...ine/index.html
Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities.
12/16/07 (Sunday)
Fox News: CL borrows shovel from neighbor Alender
AMW: CL @ Lowe's purchases supplies, paint, concret blocks, and wheelbarrow. (On tape)
Alender: Sees CL driving Maria's Car (Could be the 17th)
Before I say anything, I think the X-Mas party was held on Friday and not on Saturday as noted above. I thought we had that one figured out...but maybe it didn't get over to the timeline.
That being said.........I totally agree with panthera........no way on the 16th. More likely the 14th based on eyewitness accounts of Maria being seen (video cam at bank)...........
I'm thinking Saturday...............discussion was held between CL and Christina on what to do...........Sunday purchasing necessary tools, paint, etc. to cover up. (IMO)
12/14/07 (Friday)
Marines: CL reports to duty
AMW: Maria reports to work - Ends @ Noon
Noon: Work Ends for X-Mas Party on Base
Marines: CL does not attend X-Mas Party
AMW & Marines: Maria does not attend X-Mas Party
2:30 p.m. Maria talks to Mom (Dayton Daily?)
Maria withdraws $700 from BoFA ATM (Fox video)
ATM timeline w/Maria's card. Transcation images show:
12-14-07 FRI
... 16:19:38 -- Maria? approaches Stage R. Sunglasses. Hoodie sweatshirt.
... 16:19:41 -- Lettering on hoodie spells _AYTON?
... 16:19:49 -- May be DAYTON.
... 16:19:57 -- Maria? looks stage Left (toward her R shoulder)
... 16:20:01 -- Maria? half in shot -- some background visible.
... 16:20:03 -- Maria? w/left hand to chin.
... 16:20:18 --
... 16:20:39 -- Maria (pregnant, hair pulled back, sunglasses) exits stage R.
5:00 p.m. Maria purchases 1 way ticket to El Paso, Texas (Last sighting of Maria)
http://www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/...1-11-0006.html
AMW & Marines : Durham finds Note
Marines: Durham calls Maria's Sister
Marines: Durham talks to Maria's Mother
12/15/07 (Saturday)
Cesar tells Christina in Note (found 1/11/08 by Christina) that Maria arrives at their home; went to bus station with Maria to purchase ticket; Maria comes back later in the evening, Maria kills herself.
(Per Christina as told to Sheriff's Office on 1/11/08 and filed in Search Warrant dated 1/12/08).
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17/...ine/index.html
Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities.
12/16/07 (Sunday)
Fox News: CL borrows shovel from neighbor Alender
AMW: CL @ Lowe's purchases supplies, paint, concret blocks, and wheelbarrow. (On tape)
Alender: Sees CL driving Maria's Car (Could be the 17th)
Before I say anything, I think the X-Mas party was held on Friday and not on Saturday as noted above. I thought we had that one figured out...but maybe it didn't get over to the timeline.
That being said.........I totally agree with panthera........no way on the 16th. More likely the 14th based on eyewitness accounts of Maria being seen (video cam at bank)...........
I'm thinking Saturday...............discussion was held between CL and Christina on what to do...........Sunday purchasing necessary tools, paint, etc. to cover up. (IMO)
panthera
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 26,408
- Reaction score
- 73
Great timeline, Littledeer, except I'm confused about this part specifically the part in red ~ wasn't Christina at the party on the 14th??
12/15/07 (Saturday)
Cesar tells Christina in Note (found 1/11/08 by Christina) that Maria arrives at their home; went to bus station with Maria to purchase ticket; Maria comes back later in the evening, Maria kills herself.
(Per Christina as told to Sheriff's Office on 1/11/08 and filed in Search Warrant dated 1/12/08).
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17/...ine/index.html
Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities.
eta another thing ~ what time was the bus supposed to leave for El Paso on the 15th?
12/15/07 (Saturday)
Cesar tells Christina in Note (found 1/11/08 by Christina) that Maria arrives at their home; went to bus station with Maria to purchase ticket; Maria comes back later in the evening, Maria kills herself.
(Per Christina as told to Sheriff's Office on 1/11/08 and filed in Search Warrant dated 1/12/08).
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/01/17/...ine/index.html
Christina Laurean told police she was at a Christmas party for her husband's Marine unit during the late afternoon and evening of December 15, Onslow County Sheriff Ed Brown told CNN. Her husband did not attend the party, she told authorities.
eta another thing ~ what time was the bus supposed to leave for El Paso on the 15th?
Littledeer
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 2,826
- Reaction score
- 14
panthera:
You must have missed this in that post:
Before I say anything, I think the X-Mas party was held on Friday and not on Saturday as noted above. I thought we had that one figured out...but maybe it didn't get over to the timeline.
I thought the bus left around 7:00ish, but will have to go find the information for sure before I state it as a fact.
You must have missed this in that post:
Before I say anything, I think the X-Mas party was held on Friday and not on Saturday as noted above. I thought we had that one figured out...but maybe it didn't get over to the timeline.
I thought the bus left around 7:00ish, but will have to go find the information for sure before I state it as a fact.
panthera
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 26,408
- Reaction score
- 73
Oops ~ I'm sorry Littledeer. I just went back and reread the post and sure enough, there it is! :doh:
I'm still not seeing how the murder took place on the 15th, even shortly after midnight to make it that date, since there'd be about a 7 hr. gap between the time the ticket was purchased ~ so where was Maria all that time? I think it's entirely possible she went to CL's house before the bank and bus station, and returned to his house after finding out she wouldn't be leaving until the next day ~ and that would coincide with the time of Mrs. CL coming home from the party (around 7pm).
Littledeer
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 2,826
- Reaction score
- 14
I'm still trying to sift through all the threads for the time the train "left". I think Tom'sGirl or RumTum would know. (but then, RumTum is MIA, along with other posters now that I am rereading old threads).
Glad your still hanging around!! :blowkiss:
IMO, I can't see how the Coroner could make a time of death based on the body conditions of Maria and her baby. I think he can only go on the same things we know...............the facts of when Maria was last seen and the actions that were taken by her (ATM, etc.).
So adding in CL's activities on the 12/16, I would have to say that Maria died either on the 14th or the 15th. If we knew more of Christina's activities during those two days........................I can bet we would know what exact date Maria died on.
Glad your still hanging around!! :blowkiss:
IMO, I can't see how the Coroner could make a time of death based on the body conditions of Maria and her baby. I think he can only go on the same things we know...............the facts of when Maria was last seen and the actions that were taken by her (ATM, etc.).
So adding in CL's activities on the 12/16, I would have to say that Maria died either on the 14th or the 15th. If we knew more of Christina's activities during those two days........................I can bet we would know what exact date Maria died on.
Littledeer
Former Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2007
- Messages
- 2,826
- Reaction score
- 14
Found this posted by close enough on 1/16/08:
well, how i understand it, Durham found Maria's note the evening/afternoon of the 14th...the ticket was purchased, apparently by Maria, the next day.. (i know of no time mentioned)....the bus was to depart later that evening on the 15th....
No time of leaving the station yet.............but I know when I did the timeline.............I looked on the calendar for what day it was.(i.e. Monday, Tuesday) etc. The timeline is also pretty much backed up with supporting documentation (i.e. news articles, videos, etc.).
The reason for that was all the contradictions..........we were trying to weed out facts vs. fiction......
But I'm really starting to beleive now that Christina had a big part in all of this............most assuredly the cover up.
well, how i understand it, Durham found Maria's note the evening/afternoon of the 14th...the ticket was purchased, apparently by Maria, the next day.. (i know of no time mentioned)....the bus was to depart later that evening on the 15th....
No time of leaving the station yet.............but I know when I did the timeline.............I looked on the calendar for what day it was.(i.e. Monday, Tuesday) etc. The timeline is also pretty much backed up with supporting documentation (i.e. news articles, videos, etc.).
The reason for that was all the contradictions..........we were trying to weed out facts vs. fiction......
But I'm really starting to beleive now that Christina had a big part in all of this............most assuredly the cover up.
panthera
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 26,408
- Reaction score
- 73
Oh I'll be here through the trial! :blowkiss: I'll try to see if I can check anything out for the bus schedule, but I still think it was the evening of the 14th. I just can't see where Maria would be for that many hours since she'd already left the note that she was leaving the MC at Durham's house.
panthera
Retired WS Staff
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2006
- Messages
- 26,408
- Reaction score
- 73
We know now though that the ticket was purchased on the 14th for the 15th, but I thought it would've been in the morning. IIRC, there were two busses, one in the morning and one in the evening (which she missed on the 14th). In CL's note, he said it happened on the 15th. I think that was put in there because Christina probably had an alibi for then. I also think she dictated what was to be put in the notes.