Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

rsbryswrrl · Oct 25, 2014

Heroine said:
News2Share ‏@news_2_share 7m7 minutes ago [EXCLUSIVE] Interview with #HannahGraham's close friend. Moments ago, police found her remains in #Virgina. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT39aEVfvrE

My guess is that she went to the Governor's Foreign Language Immersion Academy for French. I attended the same program when I was in h.s. This whole ordeal has been so, so sad. I am so angry that her life was snuffed out by an evil person before she could become the great person I know she was destined to be. Rest in peace, Hannah. Nous sommes tous dans votre dette.

ticklemouse · Oct 25, 2014

As the day winds down, and my house is silent my mind wanders back to The Grahams. I find it overwhelming to be in this country while all of my family is still in England, Canada, Australia. I can't fathom being an ocean away and going through this nightmare, especially after their visit to OLR today. I just looked in on my sleeping girls (13,17, 19) and I'm furious that in a moment someone can take their future, hopes, dreams, and girly giggles away. PLEASE!! I hope my state of VA doesn't let Morgan or Hannah down, and won't make plea deals. Now....on to finding Alexis and the others!!

Kale · Oct 25, 2014

zapped said:
He can try for a plea deal but the judge doesnt have to accept it. Given the nature of JLMs crimes I'd honestly be very surprised and outraged if he did.

If there is a capital murder charge expect JLM to get the death penalty no matter how cooperative he is.

He deserves no less in my opinion for the hell he visited on those girls and the pain and suffering he causes their family, friends and the entire Charlottesville community.

He has no bargaining chips at the moment, anyway. In a situation as grave and severe as this, the only bargaining chip anyone would accept from him is a body. Unless he's got another corpse hiding somewhere, he's done.

IzzyBlanche · Oct 25, 2014

IzzyBlanche said:
2. I may not be retelling this accurately, but I recall a story about Indira Gandhi's response to proposed legislation that would require women to not be in public after a certain hour for their own protection. Her response was that it was the men who should be required to stay home since they were the threats, not the women.

I'VE MADE A HUGE MISTAKE!

i got off my lazy rear and looked it up. It was Golda Meir of Israel not Indira Gandhi. Got my strong powerful female role models mixed up.

quote:

When Israel was experiencing an epidemic of violent rapes and someone at a cabinet meeting suggested women be put under curfew until the rapists were caught, Meir shot back, “Men are committing the rapes. Let them be put under curfew.”

http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/meir-golda

zapped · Oct 25, 2014

Emaa said:
I think it will be offered because they have evidence and a strong case, to protect the Grahams and Harringtons. But only if the families agree, of course.

If this had happened to my son or daughter, I would not accept a plea bargain. Did JLM listen to MH or HG's pleas for mercy?

Evidently not.

Therefore he deserves no mercy or compassion from any of us.

You do not negotiate and accommodate evil such as this.

You eradicate it

Utterly and completely

Kale · Oct 25, 2014

IzzyBlanche said:
I'VE MADE A HUGE MISTAKE!

i got off my lazy rear and looked it up. It was Golda Meir of Israel not Indira Gandhi. Got my strong powerful female role models mixed up.

quote:

When Israel was experiencing an epidemic of violent rapes and someone at a cabinet meeting suggested women be put under curfew until the rapists were caught, Meir shot back, “Men are committing the rapes. Let them be put under curfew.”

http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/meir-golda

I hate to sound cynical, but I'll bet that was seen as completely absurd =/ (But! We can't limit MEN in everything they do!)

Dr. Know? · Oct 25, 2014

Wikiwonka has the definition of serial killer, when I did a quick search a week ago as someone who has killed 3 people on seperate occassions, If irrc.

FBI, says two at least in seperate incidents. I say anyone who has even killed once, raped once, might have done it before. Especially sexual predetors. jmo

wiki needs clarifications or we need a new source...lol

Crimson clover · Oct 25, 2014

cluciano63 said:
Women and girls SHOULD be able to walk about safely, or jog, etc if they choose, but the fact is, they are vulnerable targets. It should not be that way, but there will always be predators who have not yet been stopped, ex-con predators, and brand new ones just beginning their life of violence. You can see by internet forums everywhere how many women-hating "trolls" are out there, ready to viciously attack (with words) at anything a woman says or does, or how she looks...some of those people will go "live" one day.

We should not have to constantly counsel, remind, coax, beg etc daughters, nieces, sisters not to walk alone, use the buddy system, all of the things we do, but what is the option? Campuses all over the country provide enough dangers for young people, with binge drinking, sexual assaults, "date" rape, having drinks spiked and on and on. When we add in all the rules about not being alone...I think most just tune out. Everyone feels they can handle themselves at that age, or that the adults are just always lecturing.

These types of crimes have been happening for centuries and won't end anytime soon. It is very depressing and frustrating to me, but I don't know the answer. We can't afford not to continue to "lecture" them, even if it is mostly in one ear, out the other.

Jmo

I read a lotta wisdom here.

Moved me to say...
IMO...we must continue to 'lecture' our children (the young) in the evils about our world. We do them injustice otherwise.
In our words of caution...we whole-heartedly are wise enough in the wisdom we preach...that all that wicked stuff might just as easily fall upon our doorstep. On our way to places...or in the comforts of our home.

I've always been of the opinion...that our children (the young) are blessed not to hold all the knowledge WE know...lest they'd never adventure, much less walk out their doors!

It is my sincerest hope...that women across the world...live freely (WOOHOO!)...always exerting caution, of course...but, breathing without fear in the good Lord's days.

Celtsleuth · Oct 25, 2014

I'd like to add that if parents see children be cruel to animals, start fires when young and wet the bed long past when that shouldn't happen, to get their children to a mental health facility...ASAP. It's called the homicidal triad and children that display these three things are most likely to offend and kill as adults.

Kale said:
I have always believed that, while girls are frequently told to not become victims, boys are not all often enough told not to be violent criminals. No one wants to look at their sweet baby boy and even pretend for five seconds that there's a possibility that he'll be the horrible monster that does something like this. It probably doesn't even cross a lot of parents' minds. An eight year old boy is so sweet and innocent. But I think the "Don't hurt people" talk should be as required - and started at as early an age - as the sex talk and the drugs talk.

Kale · Oct 25, 2014

Celtsleuth said:
I'd like to add that if parents see children be cruel to animals, start fires when young and wet the bed long past when that shouldn't happen, to get their children to a mental health facility...ASAP. It's called the homicidal triad and children that display these three things are most likely to offend and kill as adults.

True, true. I can almost kind of understand the desperate desire to completely ignore the warning signs as if they didn't exist. I've always wondered how the bed wetting thing comes into play, though, does anyone know?

RR0004 · Oct 25, 2014

Pasithea said:
Here: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/casey-anthony-verdict-why-did-the-jury-say-not-guilty/

Especially ""They did not have cause of death or time of death and they still chose to go for a capital one murder charge," said Rose. "They chose to roll a big dice."

Rose believes that if Caylee's body had been found one day or even a week after she was missing, all of the questions that everyone has would be answered. Instead when Caylee's body was found,only bones - and circumstantial evidence - remained.

The prosecutors, according to Rose, should have gone for negligent homicide, in which the state would have to prove she wasn't watching the child properly and that is what led to her death."

BBM in RED- Sorry, but the jury IIRC couldn't even determine that Casey was the primary caretaker. Let's hope the jury that hears Hannah's case can connect the dots. Let justice be served this time around.

IzzyBlanche · Oct 25, 2014

Kale said:
I hate to sound cynical, but I'll bet that was seen as completely absurd =/ (But! We can't limit MEN in everything they do!)

I'd be shocked if that weren't exactly the way it was seen.

Celtsleuth · Oct 25, 2014

The vulnerability of the victim is a big factor also...lions go for the weakest in the pack of gazelles or whatever they are hunting....they seem to know it instinctively and serial killers are the same....they look for the weak and vulnerable, be it niceness, intoxication, being naive, and isolation. An animal predator hunting is the perfect analogy.

Foxfire said:
Kale, the answers to your questions will likely be found in this snipet of an article by Lieutenant Nelson Andreu (Retired)
Miami Police Department..

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/investigators/serial_killers.html
4. Victim Selection
How does a serial killer select victims? The traditional school of thought holds that generally they select victims based on certain physical and/or personal characteristics. This assertion presupposes that, within the mind of each serial killer, there evolves synthesis of preferred characteristics and, ultimately, a clear, specific picture of his "ideal" victim, be it male or female, black or white, young or old, short or tall, large busted or small, shy or forward, and so on. Then, when that "typical" serial killer begins an active search for human prey, he will go to certain lengths to capture and victimize only those individuals who closely fit the mold.

Unexpectedly, I have observed that most serial killers never actually find and kill their "dream victim." People fitting such detailed and perfected images may not only be hard to come by, but may also not be easily available in the venues haunted by "hunting" serial killers. So when that ideal victim cannot be found, and when their internal impetus becomes powerful enough, they will settle for a substitute. Ignoring for a moment the disparity between deviant human and normal feline behavior, a serial killer can be compared to a hungry lion that lies in wait for his favorite meal. It may be the lion knows an impala has the most tender or tasty meat. He waits for an opportunity to kill and eat the impala and in doing so may allow easy but not-so-attractive prey to pass unmolested. In time, hunger pains growing and no impala in sight, the famished lion will settle for an unwary bird that happens by. After devouring the bird, which gives his hunger a brief respite, the lion again has time to savor the taste of an impala, and the cycle begins again.

Like the lion, a serial killer just will not defer acting out his urge to kill simply because his "ideal" victim refuses to materialize at his beck and call. But his reason for settling for something less divulges from that of the lion. There are two basic, interrelated reasons for this disparity. The first centers on the extra caution exercised by a serial killer in his search for a victim; the second, upon the nature of the compulsion that drives him to violence.

<sniped read more @ link>

WhitegateGirl · Oct 25, 2014

zapped said:
He can try for a plea deal but the judge doesnt have to accept it. Given the nature of JLMs crimes I'd honestly be very surprised and outraged if he did.

If there is a capital murder charge expect JLM to get the death penalty no matter how cooperative he is.

He deserves no less in my opinion for the hell he visited on those girls and the pain and suffering he caused their family, friends and the entire Charlottesville community.

I agree with you that he deserves death--and yet in some way I find myself hating the idea that he might get off that easily, because in death he won't have to suffer every single day and every single night, won't have to be aware that he is not free and will never BE free. The deprivation of his freedom--and his own knowledge of how he USED that freedom when he had it--stalking, raping, and murdering innocent young women--seems like the harshest punishment a sociopath like him could be made to endure, because sociopaths believe themselves to be above the law and they have no feeling for their victims. The only regret he would ever be able to feel would be the loss of his own freedom--and I would like to see that regret go on for a long, long time in his case. In death, he would just be gone, and all his frustration, his sense of freedom lost, and his awareness of his punishment would also be gone with him. Somehow it seems important that he suffer like hell for years and years and years, just the way the families of his victims have been condemned to suffer the loss of their loved ones. Only they will suffer because they loved someone who has been taken from them, while he will suffer because the person he loves most--himself--will be locked up with his freedom taken away...by the law itself, which he considered himself to be so far above.

justwannahelp · Oct 25, 2014

Enni said:
UVA President Sullivans Statement Regarding Hannah Graham

http://news.virginia.edu/content/president-sullivan-s-statement-regarding-hannah-graham

>>>>>>>>>>>

Wow! So beautifully written.

"for her destiny of promise to be left unfulfilled, is an affront to the sanctity of life and to the natural order of human events."

-Teresa Sullivan, President of UVA

Foxfire · Oct 25, 2014

Celtsleuth said:
I'd like to add that if parents see children be cruel to animals, start fires when young and wet the bed long past when that shouldn't happen, to get their children to a mental health facility...ASAP. It's called the homicidal triad and children that display these three things are most likely to offend and kill as adults.

Interesting read, Celtsleuth..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m....html?_r=5&src=me&ref=general&pagewanted=all&

Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?
Then last spring, the psychologist treating Michael referred his parents to Dan Waschbusch, a researcher at Florida International University. Following a battery of evaluations, Anne and Miguel were presented with another possible diagnosis: their son Michael might be a psychopath.

For the past 10 years, Waschbusch has been studying “callous-unemotional” children — those who exhibit a distinctive lack of affect, remorse or empathy — and who are considered at risk of becoming psychopaths as adults.

Currently, there is no standard test for psychopathy in children, but a growing number of psychologists believe that psychopathy is a distinct neurological condition — one that can be identified in children as young as 5.

<sniped - read more>

themom · Oct 25, 2014

justwannahelp said:
Wow! So beautifully written.

"for her destiny of promise to be left unfulfilled, is an affront to the sanctity of life and to the natural order of human events."

-Teresa Sullivan, President of UVA

Perfectly stated.

IzzyBlanche · Oct 25, 2014

RR0004 said:
BBM in RED- Sorry, but the jury IIRC couldn't even determine that Casey was the primary caretaker. Let's hope the jury that hears Hannah's case can connect the dots. Let justice be served this time around.

I have a different hope. I hope that JM's attorney will persuade him to plead guilty, saving untold heartache for all involved including his own family, not to mention the enormous expenses accruing to the state.

If there is anything like fairness in this world, Mr. C will advise his client not to drag his victim's families through the ordeal of a trial unless there is any snippet of exculpatory evidence. Of which I have heard of none.

margarita25 · Oct 25, 2014

cluciano63 said:
I have a question...not sure where to put it. I have heard that if you call 911 your location shows up. If so, why is ping info often so vague in missing persons cases? Is it a feature only available to 911?

I'm not positive on this, but I think one's ability to be tracked via a 911 call depends on the caller's phone settings (gps enabled)? Not sure exactly how the pinging stuff works as related to this.

BBM:

Foxfire said:
Interesting read, Celtsleuth..

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/m....html?_r=5&src=me&ref=general&pagewanted=all&

Can You Call a 9-Year-Old a Psychopath?
Then last spring, the psychologist treating Michael referred his parents to Dan Waschbusch, a researcher at Florida International University. Following a battery of evaluations, Anne and Miguel were presented with another possible diagnosis: their son Michael might be a psychopath.

For the past 10 years, Waschbusch has been studying “callous-unemotional” children — those who exhibit a distinctive lack of affect, remorse or empathy — and who are considered at risk of becoming psychopaths as adults.

Currently, there is no standard test for psychopathy in children, but a growing number of psychologists believe that psychopathy is a distinct neurological condition — one that can be identified in children as young as 5.

<sniped - read more>

Wow.

margarita25 · Oct 25, 2014

Kale said:
I don't want to justify RAT's seemingly desperate move, but I can't help being eager to see what comes of the investigation of any possible links between JM and the Alexis Murphy case. Gotta admit it seems incredibly stupid to suggest an investigation into that if RAT and/or his team already know there's no connection.

Just wanted to being forward the link for the "Possible Links between RAT and JM" thread, for anyone just joining us:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?259956-Possible-Links-between-RAT-and-JM
(I have not had a chance to read there yet myself, but look forward to doing so over the weekend! Thanks everyone for posting.)

Hannah Graham: Remains Identified

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