Dr. Perper on IS today- manner of death

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coloradoteacher

coloradoteacher

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I did a search of this in the forum and could not find anything so please forgive me if this should be merged..
Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner in Broward County was on InSession today and he gave a view of what Dr. G might say and it was so powerful to me with the final worry I had..
he said he would have said this is a homicide for manner of death as well. He bases this on the duct tape. He said if it was a drowning there would be no reason to have duct tape on the child. Of course, the commentators brought up the staging and he said.. there is no evidence anywhere else of staging a crime but most importantly, the duct tape does not go all the way around the head AND it is covering the nose. If someone wanted this to look like a staged kidnapping, then they would have put duct tape on THE MOUTH not also on the nose.
This led him to believe that the duct tape more than likely was the cause of death as well.
I really hope this is how Dr. G will explain it. I think it answers a lot of those lingering questions.
What do people think?
 
I saw it earlier. I love Dr. Perper, I see him on Nancy alot. I love hearing what he has to say!
 
coloradoteacher said:
I did a search of this in the forum and could not find anything so please forgive me if this should be merged..
Dr. Joshua Perper, chief medical examiner in Broward County was on InSession today and he gave a view of what Dr. G might say and it was so powerful to me with the final worry I had..
he said he would have said this is a homicide for manner of death as well. He bases this on the duct tape. He said if it was a drowning there would be no reason to have duct tape on the child. Of course, the commentators brought up the staging and he said.. there is no evidence anywhere else of staging a crime but most importantly, the duct tape does not go all the way around the head AND it is covering the nose. If someone wanted this to look like a staged kidnapping, then they would have put duct tape on THE MOUTH not also on the nose.
This led him to believe that the duct tape more than likely was the cause of death as well.
I really hope this is how Dr. G will explain it. I think it answers a lot of those lingering questions.
What do people think?
Click to expand...

He is wrong. Casey tried to spin a tale she was held down and her daughter was taken, so there was some staging going on. I also think her leaving her purse in a car where it smelled like a rotting body was staged to make it look like something bad had happened. Women just don't leave their purses.

jmo
 
I really enjoyed listening to him explain this, he made it very simple to understand.
The only reason that the duct tape was present is because it was the murder weapon, plain and simple, it was even still shaped they way ICA would have wrapped it around Caylees head, the duct tape remained as the finger of god to point out the manner of death imo.
 
Chablis said:
He is wrong. Casey tried to spin a tale she was held down and her daughter was taken, so there was some staging going on. I also think her leaving her purse in a car where it smelled like a rotting body was staged to make it look like something bad had happened. Women just don't leave their purses.

jmo
Click to expand...

It was not her purse, it was a "work bag". Cindy seemed to enjoy calling it a purse for some reason.
 
Chablis said:
He is wrong. Casey tried to spin a tale she was held down and her daughter was taken, so there was some staging going on. I also think her leaving her purse in a car where it smelled like a rotting body was staged to make it look like something bad had happened. Women just don't leave their purses.

jmo
Click to expand...

If she was staging it as a kidnapping she would have called and REPORTED a kidnapping. If she had done that she would probably be walking free today.
 
Three reasons I can think for of duct tape rather than murder:

1) Staging a kidnapping, by affixing it after the death.
2) Someone really dumb who knocked the kid out with chloroform (maybe to go out and party and leave her in the closet at home or whatever), who added the duct tape to keep her from crying out if she woke up. Maybe they thought is that the nose wouldn't be obstructed and the child could breathe, but then Caylee's struggling pushed it up to cover her nose and she suffocated.
3) Trying to keep the odor of a decomposing body from escaping further.

#1 I might actually believe, except that the defense hasn't tried to raise the theory. If she had come out with it at the start, I would've had reasonable doubt in my mind. But she didn't.

#2 I could see, I guess, though the defense hasn't tried raising it.

#3 I can only think of because someone said it on JVM (I think it was) tonight. It doesn't even make sense to me as 'unreasonable doubt', much less 'reasonable doubt'.

Though, I'm also confused on why someone would try to struggle a child with duct tape. That seems a bizarre murder weapon. Maybe I'll go googling to see if there's any other cases (because yeah, I might as well add some more suspicious Google searches to my laptop!). I would think that using a pillow, say, would be much more effective. Or smuggle her with the Winnie Pooh blanket.

Edited to add a #4 was raised tonight on Dr. Drew: covering the mouth after-death to keep bugs and such from crawling in there. I can see someone hysterical doing that, not really thinking clearly. I have a hard time seeing a person doing that, though, and then not quickly cracking under pressure and confessing.

Seems there's a few instances of 'death by duct tape'. One case happened real near me in Marietta, during a robbery where the store clerk was bound and then had their mouth and nose covered with duct tape. Another case a man killed his girlfriend and wrapped duct tape around her mouth and nose. They found her quickly, I guess, because they could see teeth marks on the tape where she was trying to gnaw her way out. Still seems like a pillow would be much easier.
 
There might have been staging planned for later on if Casey plotted out a fake attack with abduction. I don't believe she was originally going to use the nanny kidnap story though, because she knew that she didn't exist and didn't have any real addresses to send detectives looking for Caylee. The staging would probably have only involved the vehicle and Casey herself with Caylee long gone and hidden. Maybe she was trying to wait until after the Fusion night or some other planned event that she didn't want to miss.
 
rabidstoat said:
Three reasons I can think for of duct tape rather than murder:

1) Staging a kidnapping, by affixing it after the death.
2) Someone really dumb who knocked the kid out with chloroform (maybe to go out and party and leave her in the closet at home or whatever), who added the duct tape to keep her from crying out if she woke up. Maybe they thought is that the nose wouldn't be obstructed and the child could breathe, but then Caylee's struggling pushed it up to cover her nose and she suffocated.
3) Trying to keep the odor of a decomposing body from escaping further.

#1 I might actually believe, except that the defense hasn't tried to raise the theory. If she had come out with it at the start, I would've had reasonable doubt in my mind. But she didn't.

#2 I could see, I guess, though the defense hasn't tried raising it.

#3 I can only think of because someone said it on JVM (I think it was) tonight. It doesn't even make sense to me as 'unreasonable doubt', much less 'reasonable doubt'.

Though, I'm also confused on why someone would try to struggle a child with duct tape. That seems a bizarre murder weapon. Maybe I'll go googling to see if there's any other cases (because yeah, I might as well add some more suspicious Google searches to my laptop!). I would think that using a pillow, say, would be much more effective. Or smuggle her with the Winnie Pooh blanket.

Edited to add a #4 was raised tonight on Dr. Drew: covering the mouth after-death to keep bugs and such from crawling in there. I can see someone hysterical doing that, not really thinking clearly. I have a hard time seeing a person doing that, though, and then not quickly cracking under pressure and confessing.

Seems there's a few instances of 'death by duct tape'. One case happened real near me in Marietta, during a robbery where the store clerk was bound and then had their mouth and nose covered with duct tape. Another case a man killed his girlfriend and wrapped duct tape around her mouth and nose. They found her quickly, I guess, because they could see teeth marks on the tape where she was trying to gnaw her way out. Still seems like a pillow would be much easier.
Click to expand...

could see how the duct tape put on to stage a kidnapping would work and be believable IF it was only over the mouth, but on the nose as well? It makes NO sense to make it look like a kidnapping by covering up all her airways- they would just cover the mouth.

Again #2 would imply that ICA was so unintelligent to realize that covering BOTh airways, the child would die. It had to have been deliberate.
I can see how duct tape would fall down if a child were crying but fall up and cover MORE space? That doesn't seem logical.
HMOO :)
 
txsvicki said:
There might have been staging planned for later on if Casey plotted out a fake attack with abduction. I don't believe she was originally going to use the nanny kidnap story though, because she knew that she didn't exist and didn't have any real addresses to send detectives looking for Caylee. The staging would probably have only involved the vehicle and Casey herself with Caylee long gone and hidden. Maybe she was trying to wait until after the Fusion night or some other planned event that she didn't want to miss.
Click to expand...

I agree that I do not think she thought of the nanny kidnapping story early on- the entire- LA trying to get it out of ICA story and having to resort to a scenario with LE and THEN she comes up with the nanny kidnapping screams of "I was backed into a corner and had to come up with a lie real fast." If this was her plan all along, she would of A. called LE herself much sooner (why wait 31 days to shift any sort of blame on yourself?) B. At the very least threw this story out there when CA picked up the phone to call LE first.

As far as staging goes, the primary staging the DID NOT occur would be for her to drop Caylee's body off closer to ZFG's supposed apartment, not 1/4 of a mile from her house. She had no clue what her story was going to be.
I am not sure what people are thinking a staged crime scene would look like but there would be at the very least some sort of evidence left with the body that would be more conclusive if someone was trying to place blame.
Not sure where the DT was going with the staging crime scene q's.. what would RK want it to be staged as? That the body was there for some time? Fir RK to make that crime scene look the way it did with the roots, bone dispersal and partial buried bones, he would have been there for hours and would have left some disturbed trace of his being there.
The more I write about the DT theory, the more utterly ridiculous it sounds to me.:banghead:
 
Chablis said:
He is wrong. Casey tried to spin a tale she was held down and her daughter was taken, so there was some staging going on. I also think her leaving her purse in a car where it smelled like a rotting body was staged to make it look like something bad had happened. Women just don't leave their purses.

jmo
Click to expand...
I think he is talking about staging of the crime scene since the defense claims Kronk dumped the body there/staged the scene.



katydid23 said:
If she was staging it as a kidnapping she would have called and REPORTED a kidnapping. If she had done that she would probably be walking free today.
Click to expand...
This is another reason why the accident theory is ludicrous. Why on earth would anyone dump a body and go on as if nothing happened to make themselves look guilty if it was just an honest accident? It defies all common sense.
 
rabidstoat said:
Three reasons I can think for of duct tape rather than murder:

(Snipped) Maybe I'll go googling to see if there's any other cases (because yeah, I might as well add some more suspicious Google searches to my laptop!). I would think that using a pillow, say, would be much more effective. Or smuggle her with the Winnie Pooh blanket.

(Snipped some more and BBM)

I had to laugh because I've been thinking, Dear God…Please don't let anything happen to any of my friends, family, or neighbors where LE will want to look at my hard drive cuz I'll be their #1 "person of interest".

This could be a whole "epidemic". For years people will be saying, "It's only in my computer history 'cuz I followed the Casey Anthony case back in 2011. Honest officer, I swear! And if you'll take these handcuffs off of me, I'll prove it." :panic:
Click to expand...
 
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