2015.06.28 Timestamp Indicated per Probable Cause Doc

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Possibility?

The killers were in the garage when she arrived home. She entered the house and began arming the security system but was attacked before completing. Time stamp could have come from that?
 
Another possibility?

Damage to the back of the minivan occurred during the commission of the murder. The 11:19 time came from the minivan's Event Data Recorder.
 
No it's not said:
Would be a connection flight (Charlotte, Atlanta or Philadelphia), no direct flights. All flights from CT connect via same routes. So she could have come in 9:02pm (Philladelphia), 9:03pm (Atlanta), 10:12pm (New York), 11:08 (Boston)

The Boston flight would be closest, but getting out the airport and arriving in Bonita (Jarvis) by 11:19pm, is impossible. So, either she took an earlier flight at 10:12pm and would get home by app. 10:45pm, in which case the phone call would not have been made by Dr Sievers herself(!!), or she was already attacked in the airport parking lot/ garage. I am checking my notes if there was any other flight, but I seem to recall rather precisely, that the flights available were on minutes after the hour.

-Nin
Click to expand...

Small correction, there are some direct flights from Westchester County to RSW. However, Dr Sievers must have taken a connected flight to get to RSW around the 10/11pm mark:

Westchester County Airport, Departures:

http://airport.westchestergov.com/airlines/airline-information

SWFL (RSW) Arrivals:

http://www.flylcpa.com/flightdata/arrivals/

Later!

-Nin
 
I think the time stamp has to be from evidence that directly links CWW to the crime, not from something like when TS was last seen. They must have a very specific timeline (even if it's partly conjecture) for the crime in order to prosecute.

Maybe the time is not TOD, but time when they broke into the house.
 
No it's not said:
Would be a connection flight (Charlotte, Atlanta or Philadelphia), no direct flights. All flights from CT connect via same routes. So she could have come in 9:02pm (Philladelphia), 9:03pm (Atlanta), 10:12pm (New York), 11:08 (Boston)

The Boston flight would be closest, but getting out the airport and arriving in Bonita (Jarvis) by 11:19pm, is impossible. So, either she took an earlier flight at 10:12pm and would get home by app. 10:45pm, in which case the phone call would not have been made by Dr Sievers herself(!!), or she was already attacked in the airport parking lot/ garage. I am checking my notes if there was any other flight, but I seem to recall rather precisely, that the flights available were on minutes after the hour.

-Nin
Click to expand...

What if she flew from NY (Westchester) to FL? I think Duntulum implied that TS flew out of NY because the Westchester airport offered direct flights to Ft. Myers, and if you're correct (and I'm understanding your post) then flying from CT would have been a less ideal option because there were no direct flights.
 
Satchie said:
I think the time stamp has to be from evidence that directly links CWW to the crime, not from something like when TS was last seen. They must have a very specific timeline (even if it's partly conjecture) for the crime in order to prosecute.

Maybe the time is not TOD, but time when they broke into the house.
Click to expand...

Good possibility.

Initial crime, aside from conspiracy, would have been breaking in to the house.
 
Scout said:
Possibility?

The killers were in the garage when she arrived home. She entered the house and began arming the security system but was attacked before completing. Time stamp could have come from that?
Click to expand...

I think, just based off reports from the family, that the alarm was off on the 28th and never 'armed' until probably after the unidentified Dr. found TS. If this is true, TS didn't have a chance to arm the system to create a timestamp. But, perhaps it is possible that she entered a single digit into the panel and was interrupted. Maybe the system logs any input whatsoever with a timestamp.
 
creepingskills said:
I think, just based off reports from the family, that the alarm was off on the 28th and never 'armed' until probably after the unidentified Dr. found TS. If this is true, TS didn't have a chance to arm the system to create a timestamp. But, perhaps it is possible that she entered a single digit into the panel and was interrupted. Maybe the system logs any input whatsoever with a timestamp.
Click to expand...

That's what I was trying to say. Guess I wasn't very clear about it.
 
LCSO ARREST/NOTICE TO APPEAR - Page 2 is PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT

Nothing stated about Time Of Death.

This is what is listed on PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT:
The undersigned certifies and swears that he/she has just and reasonable grounds to believe that the above named Defendant committed the following violation of law: MURDER DANGEROUS DEPRAVED WO PREMEDITATION
On the 28 day of June at 2319 P.M.

Also note: there is no year listed for the ‘violation of law’…. Just day, month, time.
 
Scout said:
Possibility?

The killers were in the garage when she arrived home. She entered the house and began arming the security system but was attacked before completing. Time stamp could have come from that?
Click to expand...
SCOUT I have a thought on the time..(oh this is so sad to state or question but) But, the exact time could be explained by a watch or cell phone being smashed by a hammer....think about having a cell phone in your hands and trying to call 911, or a watch on your wrist as you would naturally and instinctively raise your arm and hand to protect your face ior to fend off blows???
 
Dushi said:
* Teresa drove herself home in the blue van.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...June-2015-*ARRESTS*-6&p=12032287#post12032287
Click to expand...

Duntulum, our unverified poster stated she drove herself home. But, what if that is what she believed and not what turns out to be fact? Unless I hear it from SMS or other LE on the case, I need to leave this open. She likely did drive herself home because it would not be smart for the murder to take place at the airport, and we also have not heard anything about evidence of a crime occurring at the airport, and although we cannot be sure the cause of death was a hammer, we have heard reliable info stating the murder was brutal. If so, it would be riskier and more likely leave evidence at the scene if it occurred at the airport. Still, I will defer as to place until I hear more facts.
 
IQuestion said:
SCOUT I have a thought on the time..(oh this is so sad to state or question but) But, the exact time could be explained by a watch or cell phone being smashed by a hammer....think about having a cell phone in your hands and trying to call 911, or a watch on your wrist as you would naturally and instinctively raise your arm and hand to protect your face ior to fend off blows???
Click to expand...

Possibly.

I'm also wondering about the call that Teresa allegedly made to Mark. Recall that it was stated at her memorial service that she prayed bedtime prayer with the girls during that call. Wonder if investigators have confirmed that with the girls.
 
SeesSeas said:
LCSO ARREST/NOTICE TO APPEAR - Page 2 is PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT

Nothing stated about Time Of Death.

This is what is listed on PROBABLE CAUSE STATEMENT:
The undersigned certifies and swears that he/she has just and reasonable grounds to believe that the above named Defendant committed the following violation of law: MURDER DANGEROUS DEPRAVED WO PREMEDITATION
On the 28 day of June at 2319 P.M.

Also note: there is no year listed for the ‘violation of law’…. Just day, month, time.
Click to expand...

The time of death is noted on page 2 (at the top) as 2319 PM.
 
It has frequently come up on WS in missing persons cases, that the date of death is often recorded the day a body is found even if it is days/weeks/months of the disappearance. It seems to be protocol for many (or most/all?) jurisdictions. Could the same concept hold true in a case like this? Time of death is called at the last verifiable signs of life from TS (likely electronic such as exiting airport garage, entering her home, or her phone being smashed.....or even her last call/text)? I do believe she was killed very quickly upon entering her home, which makes it very difficult to believe it was not pre-meditated. But, as someone has said on another thread, they may just be waiting for the grand jury to upgrade the charges.
 
Scout said:
Possibly.

I'm also wondering about the call that Teresa allegedly made to Mark. Recall that it was stated at her memorial service that she prayed bedtime prayer with the girls during that call. Wonder if investigators have confirmed that with the girls.
Click to expand...

I hadn't read that before -- that actually helps explain why she might have called from the tarmac just as the plane was landing. I would assume that if, per the unverified family member, the family is split on MS' involvement and have spoken to the girls, then that call is probably corroborated.
 
creepingskills said:
Not trying to split hairs, since I do believe the 11:19PM time is important, however, the time may not be the official TOD. Just my two cents after seeing this doc. Thanks NIN!

IMO, 11:19PM could be the timestamp on some type of evidence (cell phone data, security cam footage) that LE referenced in the arrest warrant, perhaps in the probable cause affidavit. Maybe the crime began at 11:19. For example if TS left the airport at 11:19 and they followed, or otherwise set out to Jarvis or arrived at 11:19PM with a criminal purpose. My best guess is traffic cameras produced the 11:19PM timestamp. But then again, I don't know if its common for TOD to be so specific. Would an ME be able to determine TOD down to the minute?
Click to expand...

Or, a watch that TS wore that was hit by the hammer, which caused the time to stop at that time but did not totally destroy the hands on the watch.
 
SeaEclipse said:
I hadn't read that before -- that actually helps explain why she might have called from the tarmac just as the plane was landing. I would assume that if, per the unverified family member, the family is split on MS' involvement and have spoken to the girls, then that call is probably corroborated.
Click to expand...

Pretty late bedtime for children that age.
 
The TOD is very specific and not approximately 11-11:30 or between 10pm and 12am. I wonder why they believe the murder happened at such a specific time. Is there a witness to something? Was Dr. Teresa wearing a watch or was she carrying her cell that stopped at 11:19pm? In any event, I see this as a good sign that the TOD appears to have been narrowed down so precisely.
 
SeaEclipse said:
I hadn't read that before -- that actually helps explain why she might have called from the tarmac just as the plane was landing. I would assume that if, per the unverified family member, the family is split on MS' involvement and have spoken to the girls, then that call is probably corroborated.
Click to expand...

We don't know which family they were staying with. Mark has family up there, too.
 
relay said:
The TOD is very specific and not approximately 11-11:30 or between 10pm and 12am. I wonder why they believe the murder happened at such a specific time. Is there a witness to something? Was Dr. Teresa wearing a watch that stopped at 11:19pm? In any event, I see this as a good sign that the TOD appears to have been narrowed down so precisely.
Click to expand...

As stated by someone else, the time may pertain to the time of the break-in. The break-in would legally be considered part of the crime. Breaking in and waiting for her to arrive would constitute Lying in Wait special circumstance.
 
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