Meredith Kercher Murder: The Nencini Verdict and it's impact on the future

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
dgfred said:
What court? :banghead:

What motive? There is no need for a motive and only speculation based on incomplete evidence to guess at in the first place. Ask AK on her blog or email RS might be the only chance.

The Supreme Court verifies or rejects the ruling of N. N court has decided that the 1st instance trial was correct. The SC rejected (annuled) Hellmann's appeal verdict as being unsound and illogical.

Motive is a thing of TV IMO... alot of murders don't have any at all.

Would a prank like the one she did before that escalated be one? Maybe

Would a violent assault including RG induced by rage be one? Maybe

Would a drug induce stupor and lack of restraint lead to murder? Maybe

Would jealousy, anger and other emotions come flooding to the surface during an experiment with harder substances? Maybe

Would absolute stupidy lead to murdering someone for no reason. Maybe

Would following your new girlfriends lead make you do something you might regret? Maybe

Would the chance for new experiences lead to something getting out of hand and there was no turning back? Maybe

Maybe is the word that only leaves you guessing. :jail:
Click to expand...

Everyone makes mistakes in life. It's just that their mistake was a huge one. HUGE. And for HUGE mistakes, there are prices one must pay. There are no winners in any of this.

Probably many murderers in prison think, if only, if only. If only I hadn't lost my temper, if only I hadn't been so stupid, if only I had just let it go. If only I had just gotten a divorce. :facepalm:. And, of course, for the accidental ones, I imagine the feeling is worse. If only such-and-such thing had happened and I didn't go there that night. If only I had made this choice instead. IDK, I am not a murderer, so obviously all of this I'm not completely sure about, but I imagine the majority feel some of these emotions.

And there are the ones with severe psychopathic problems, who don't feel anything. Or who wouldn't change anything. Or who have deluded themselves into thinking they really did nothing wrong.

Amanda and RS would be in the first category. IMO. But for what they did, no matter how it happened, there is a price to pay. That's just the way it is. They can't go back and change anything, there are no do-overs.

So I thought your post was just so spot-on, dgfred. It happened. For whatever reason it happened, that doesn't change the fact that it still happened. So IMO the calls of "no motive" are empty calls.
 
Karmady said:
I would think so, especially since there's an inquiry. I wish I could read the rules, since I'm sure that would clear it up pretty well.
Click to expand...

No one complained when Hellman did the same thing, but had there been a complaint, the result would have been the same: an inquiry. Regardless, I doubt that it will make any difference to the appeal, the verdict, or the outcome. Remember all the discussion about a prosecutor having a complaint against him, and all the talk about how he was somehow a bad prosecutor? Nothing came of it. Complaints against prosecutors are a dime a dozen, as there are dozens of disgruntled convicts. Here, we have a couple of disgruntled convicted murderers complaining because a Judge made a random comment in the corridor. Complaining won't make them innocent.
 
Knock it off in here. Can you all read minds? What the Heck!

Knock it off. :furious:

Salem
 
whoanellie said:
Disgraceful. The real killer - the sole killer - is now free to go to school while the authorities continue to pursue two innocents.
Click to expand...

It takes a real strength of character to admit you were wrong. [modsnip]

Admitting a mistake is even harder when professional reputations are on the line. [modsnip]

The Nencini verdict is the Italian justice system declaring that it does not make mistakes. [modsnip] We need to remember that beneath the wigs and robes are fallible humans.
 
New post on Raffaele on Knox blog:

Raffaele is not a slave


Raffaele-3-300x300.jpg


http://www.amandaknox.com/2014/02/11/raffaele-is-not-a-slave/
 
I think the two are going to regret these pictures hoping to show them as victims... from the looks of things on Twitter AK probably already is. What a disaster IMO. People go nuts with photoshop. :floorlaugh:

It is too late after this verdict to try to use that card IMO.

:jail:
 
Does a history of staging a fake break in wearing ski-mask to scare your roommate count too?

Does a history of carrying combat-style knives, animal-*advertiser censored*, violent comics and drug use count too?

Past history is a two-way street IMO.
 
dgfred said:
Does a history of staging a fake break in wearing ski-mask to scare your roommate count too?
Click to expand...

It probably would if it was true. There is no mention of ski masks in the case file.

The best the prosecution could do was a ticket for noise violation back in Seattle.

You see the difference is that Guede's burglary history is evidenced in courtroom testimony and police documentation while what you're basing your opinion on is just lies propagated anonymously over the internet.
 
The outrageous injustice of Nencini's verdict is noticed. People recognize it is wrongful conviction.

Steve Drizin, clinical law professor, Northwestern University School of Law and Hannah Riley, a communications associate at the Innocence Project write in the Huffington Post:

Knox and Sollecito: Victims of a Prosecutor's 'Conspiracy Theories' to Explain Away DNA

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent of Meredith Kercher's murder. Rudy Guede sexually assaulted and killed Kercher after she came upon him burglarizing the house she shared with Knox and two other young women.

In the annals of false confessions, there are only two other cases that rival the Knox case: the Billy Wayne Cope case and the Norfolk Four case. These three are the only rape-murder cases in which prosecutors continued to pursue convictions against an original suspect who "confessed" even after DNA testing conducted before trial matched to a different person who had little or no connection to the original suspects.

The whole article is very eye opening and informative, coming from real experts.
 
Katody said:
The outrageous injustice of Nencini's verdict is noticed. People recognize it is wrongful conviction.

Steve Drizin, clinical law professor, Northwestern University School of Law and Hannah Riley, a communications associate at the Innocence Project write in the Huffington Post:

Knox and Sollecito: Victims of a Prosecutor's 'Conspiracy Theories' to Explain Away DNA

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent of Meredith Kercher's murder. Rudy Guede sexually assaulted and killed Kercher after she came upon him burglarizing the house she shared with Knox and two other young women.

In the annals of false confessions, there are only two other cases that rival the Knox case: the Billy Wayne Cope case and the Norfolk Four case. These three are the only rape-murder cases in which prosecutors continued to pursue convictions against an original suspect who "confessed" even after DNA testing conducted before trial matched to a different person who had little or no connection to the original suspects.

The whole article is very eye opening and informative, coming from real experts.
Click to expand...

Italian experts that have reviewed the court document, or people in foreign countries seeking their 15 minutes of fame by attaching themselves to the murder of Meredith Kercher?
 
Katody said:
The outrageous injustice of Nencini's verdict is noticed. People recognize it is wrongful conviction.

Steve Drizin, clinical law professor, Northwestern University School of Law and Hannah Riley, a communications associate at the Innocence Project write in the Huffington Post:

Knox and Sollecito: Victims of a Prosecutor's 'Conspiracy Theories' to Explain Away DNA

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are innocent of Meredith Kercher's murder. Rudy Guede sexually assaulted and killed Kercher after she came upon him burglarizing the house she shared with Knox and two other young women.

In the annals of false confessions, there are only two other cases that rival the Knox case: the Billy Wayne Cope case and the Norfolk Four case. These three are the only rape-murder cases in which prosecutors continued to pursue convictions against an original suspect who "confessed" even after DNA testing conducted before trial matched to a different person who had little or no connection to the original suspects.

The whole article is very eye opening and informative, coming from real experts.
Click to expand...

This part does give one stern pause, as it mirrors the Guede/Knox-Sollecito narrative:

Time will tell where this all lands. .....There is cause for some reflection....

Cope confessed to murdering and sexually assaulting his 12-year-old daughter in her bed in Rock Hill, South Carolina in November, 2001. Nine months after his arrest, DNA testing of semen and saliva found on Cope's daughter matched to James Sanders, a recently released North Carolina inmate who, upon his release, went on a crime spree in which he sexually assaulted or attempted to rape four other women in Rock Hill. Sanders's modus operandi was always the same -- he always broke into homes at night without leaving signs of forced entry and he never worked with an accomplice.

The DNA match did not deter prosecutors. They pressed on, arguing to the jury that the two men "must have met" and persuaded the jury to convict both men on the theory that Cope "served up his daughter for his and ... Sanders's own perverse pleasures" -- even though Cope never mentioned Sanders in his confessions.
Click to expand...
 
otto said:
Italian experts that have reviewed the court document, or people in foreign countries seeking their 15 minutes of fame by attaching themselves to the murder of Meredith Kercher?
Click to expand...

And that would be my question as well....there seems to be an abundance of confusion, even by US legal experts, over how both the Italian and EU courts work. And when not confusion, outright dishonesty over possible conclusions to this case - such as an appeal to the EU court. ;)

JMO
 
SMK said:
This part does give one stern pause, as it mirrors the Guede/Knox-Sollecito narrative:

Time will tell where this all lands. .....There is cause for some reflection....
Click to expand...

Recently freed David Camm's case was quite similar in this aspect, too.

More from the article:

Some, like Professor Alan Dershowitz, have suggested that Knox must be guilty because she implicated an innocent man -- Lumumba -- when she "confessed" to the authorities. But in the annals of false confessions, innocent false confessors frequently implicate other innocents. Just ask Chris Ochoa, a Texas high school honor student who named his best friend William Danziger as his accomplice in the rape and murder of a young woman in Texas. Ochoa even testified against Danziger at Danziger's trial. Both of them spent more than a decade in prison before DNA evidence proved that a rapist and killer named Achim Marino committed the crime. The fact that Ochoa caved into police pressure and named his best friend does not make him any less innocent, or Marino any less guilty. The Beatrice Six, the Central Park Five, the Dixmoor Five, the Englewood Four, and the Norfolk Four are other cases in which multiple defendants falsely implicated other innocent men and women in their own false confessions.
Click to expand...
 
Katody said:
Recently freed David Camm's case was quite similar in this aspect, too.

More from the article:
Click to expand...
Thank you for that information.

I have been strongly open to the guilt of Knox and Sollecito (because of various questions, holes in their story, and indicators which point in that direction) but I do understand that there are many people who are convinced that a real mistake has been made. I am the type of person who does not ignore any information set before me, and I always try to look at both sides because I don't believe anything is gained by adhering to tunnel vision.

When information from previous cases seems to mirror certain aspects of this case, I feel it is valuable to stop and examine it - and I always was troubled by the fact that when police tapped their phones in the first days, Knox and Sollecito never said anything about Guede to eachother.

That said, I am eager to see the details of the reasoning of the Nencini court, and what the Supreme Court of Cassation makes of appeal requests (which would appear to be based only on procedural questions at this juncture). There have been one or two cases in which a female and 2 males were convicted of a young woman's murder ( I am thinking specifically about a US case which had something to do with a car but cannot recall the names. Presently there is a similar case involving the murder of a VA Tech student.)
 
Just wondering about the Supreme Court:

So after we get through Nencini's motivations report (by May 1?) and then when it is time for the Supreme Court to look at appeals (which can now be based only on procedural errors, and not evidence?) (which is supposed to be a one day process), this verdict (outside of these considerations) will be permanent (assuming it will stand) and the the extradition request would be its natural consequence.

Any idea what month the SCC would determine, and is there anything I am missing?

ETA: As I've said elsewhere, if the SCC does not see any point in rushing the process (even though the 2 convicted are clear flight risks) then I would expect both to flee (with full pro-innocence and media support) prior to any extradition process being set in motion.
 
Katody said:
More intelligent insight sparked by Nencini's verdict on Salon:

Amanda Knox, what really happened: Writing toward the actual story

by Katie Crouch.

Author provides a rational and fact based reconstruction of the events of the terrible night.
Click to expand...
I read the piece. It is well written, and I can understand and respect her writing a narrative which leads seamlessly to Rudy Guede as a lone wolf killer.

But there are 2 problems:

1. It leaves several gaps in the real narrative (regarding inconsistencies, circumstantial evidence, and question marks in relation to Knox and Sollecito).

2. What of someone writing a narrative which would include Knox and Sollecito in a way which would fit all empirical data?

It is easy enough to have the lone wolf theory in mind, and to make the facts fit into it, once it has been served up in an analysis.

There has now been an arrest of a female college student and her 2 male friends as accomplices in the strangling homicide of a pre-med female student at VA Tech. It happens.
 
SMK said:
I read the piece. It is well written, and I can understand and respect her writing a narrative which leads seamlessly to Rudy Guede as a lone wolf killer.

But there are 2 problems:

1. It leaves several gaps in the real narrative (regarding inconsistencies, circumstantial evidence, and question marks in relation to Knox and Sollecito).
Click to expand...

She concentrates on the murder itself, not the failed investigation and interrogation leading to false confession. The previous article I linked by professor Drizin focuses on the mechanism of wrongful conviction more.

2. What of someone writing a narrative which would include Knox and Sollecito in a way which would fit all empirical data?
Click to expand...
I'd love to see one, but neither the prosecution nor various online commenters delivered so far.

There has now been an arrest of a female college student and her 2 male friends as accomplices in the strangling homicide of a pre-med female student at VA Tech. It happens.
Click to expand...
I guess there is evidence that matches a reasonable group scenario, unlike the Kercher case. Could you provide some more info?
 
SMK said:
I read the piece. It is well written, and I can understand and respect her writing a narrative which leads seamlessly to Rudy Guede as a lone wolf killer.

But there are 2 problems:

1. It leaves several gaps in the real narrative (regarding inconsistencies, circumstantial evidence, and question marks in relation to Knox and Sollecito).

2. What of someone writing a narrative which would include Knox and Sollecito in a way which would fit all empirical data?

It is easy enough to have the lone wolf theory in mind, and to make the facts fit into it, once it has been served up in an analysis.

There has now been an arrest of a female college student and her 2 male friends as accomplices in the strangling homicide of a pre-med female student at VA Tech. It happens.
Click to expand...

The VA Tech story is similar, and yet quite different. There will be a strong case against the defendant.
http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/c...cle_39fcd342-941c-11e3-acf6-001a4bcf6878.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 207 more.
Total: 4,197 (members: 208, guests: 3,989)

Online statistics

Members online
208
Guests online
3,989
Total visitors
4,197
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
591,822
Messages
17,959,619
Members
228,621
Latest member
MaryEllen77
Back
Top