MR. WOOD: Well, he told me about what a
6 forensic psychologist would bring to the table and he
7 gave me a number of areas and I asked him would he
8 also have been involved in a police strategy to bring
9 public pressure on a given individual who was under
10 suspicion. 11 MR. MILLER: Given individual, it seems to
12 me it's everybody, including Chris Wolf.
13 MR. WOOD: I think that's why it's related
14 to Chris Wolf.
15 MR. MILLER: But not specifically to Chris
16 Wolf.
17 MR. WOOD: Well, the question of whether
18 it should have been, if it existed, if the strategy
19 existed and there is evidence that I have that it
20 did --
21 MR. MILLER: What strategy are we talking
22 about?
23 MR. WOOD: Why would it not -- a specific
24 plan that involved Steven Pitt and others, including
25 Bill Hagamaier of the FBI, that was developed around
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1 a strategy to bring public pressure on individuals to
2 either force them to cooperate or for other reasons
3 I'll discuss later. Let me establish the first.
4 Q (BY MR. WOOD) I'm right about the
5 strategy, am I not, it existed, Steven Pitt was part
6 of it and so was Bill Hagamaier of the FBI?
7 MR. MILLER: I don't think you ought to
8 answer that question. I don't think it's got
9 anything specifically to do with Chris Wolf.
10 MR. WOOD: I'm entitled to know whether or
11 not there was such a strategy because we now have the
12 chief acknowledging that in January of 1997 within a
13 month of this child's murder, Chris Wolf, who was
14 brought to the attention of the authorities by his
15 then live-in girlfriend who was at least credible
16 enough to bring this man in for questioning, who was
17 totally or at least to the chief's recollection at
18 least uncooperative on the question of giving an
19 interview and submitting handwriting exemplars, I
20 want to know whether he was part of the strategy that
21 I have evidence existed about bringing public
22 pressure on suspects or individuals under suspicion
23 to try to get them to cooperate. I think it's
24 absolutely related to Chris Wolf and I'm entitled to
25 an answer, Bob. (no.it's not absolutley related to CW and Miller knows it,he's not falling into the trap, but thanks for indirectly making them admit this is the strategy they used with the R's )
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1 MR. MILLER: I don't see how it's related
2 to Chris Wolf. If you ask it in a specific reference
3 to Chris Wolf, I think he can answer it.
4 MR. WOOD: Why would it not be applicable
5 to Chris Wolf and others?
6 MR. MILLER: I don't know.
7 MR. WOOD: That is what I'm trying to find
8 out.
9 MR. MILLER: Well, but I don't think that
10 is purpose of this deposition. The purpose of this
11 deposition is, as our agreement says, to talk about
12 specifics as to Chris Wolf, not the rest of the
13 world, not the other suspects, not your other
14 clients.
15 MR. WOOD: Don't imply that my other
16 client, that Chris Wolf is a client.
17 MR. MILLER: I think that's got to be a
18 consideration.
19 MR. WOOD: Here is the point. One of the
20 issues in this case is whether or not Chris Wolf to
21 this day was properly and thoroughly investigated by
22 the Boulder Police Department.
23 And one of the issues in this case is
24 whether you understand that this lawsuit involves
25 more than just the allegations of libel. The heart
84
1 of the allegations are based on the contention of
2 Chris Wolf that Patsy Ramsey killed JonBent. That's
3 part of the case as it relates to Chris Wolf.
4 We believe there is a serious issue that
5 still exists to this day about whether or not Chris
6 Wolf based on a thorough investigation should have
7 been excluded as being involved in the crime.
8 Now, one of the areas that I'm trying to
9 go into is whether or not when he was uncooperative
10 in January of 1997, whether or not there was any
11 efforts made to put pressure on him publicly in an
12 effort to get him to cooperate.
13 MR. MILLER: Well, ask that question.
14 Q (BY MR. WOOD) Do you understand that
15 question?
16 A Repeat it --
17 Q Sure. I want to know whether or not any
18 efforts were made in 1997 through the media, use of
19 the media, to bring pressure on Chris Wolf publicly
20 in an effort to get him to cooperate with the
21 investigation.
22 A I can't answer prior to October of '97.
23 Q You weren't --
24 A After October '97, no.
25 Q Was there a plan in effect for that to be
85
1 done for a particular individual or possibly any
2 individuals who were under suspicion?
3 MR. MILLER: I think that that's outside
4 the purview of this deposition.
5 MR. WOOD: Well, I think I'm entitled to
6 know whether or not Steven Pitt and Bill Hagamaier
7 and Mark Beckner and others, not you, you weren't
8 there at the time, Eller, whether or not they had a
9 strategy and a plan to use the media to bring
10 pressure on individuals under suspicion in an effort
11 to get them to cooperate. And I also have evidence
12 that it was undertaken in an effort to get
13 individuals to potentially confess. 14 MR. MILLER: Well, he's answered --
15 MR. WOOD: And I think the issue -- I
16 think the issue of whether or not that existed and
17 then the secondary question being, if it did, was it
18 utilized with respect to a known uncooperative person
19 under suspicion, Chris Wolf, is absolutely relevant
20 and I'm entitled to an answer to it.
21 MR. MILLER: He's answered that as to
22 Chris Wolf.
23 MR. WOOD: I'm asking him whether he was
24 aware of the fact that that type of plan existed in
25 1997.
86
1 MR. MILLER: Let me talk to him a minute.
2 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're off the record at
3 approximately 10:55 a.m.
4 (Recess taken from 10:55 a.m. to 11:02
5 a.m.)
6 VIDEO TECHNICIAN: We're on the record at
7 approximately 11:02 a.m.
8 MR. WOOD: Let me say, Bob, to you, so
9 that you understand. I mean, I'm trying to walk a
10 line that is difficult because we're defending John
11 and Patsy Ramsey in a civil charge of murder. I
12 understand there is an ongoing investigation, at
13 least one described as an ongoing investigation, I
14 guess I would say an open investigation.
15 That's why I tried to explain to you why I
16 think this clearly relates to Chris Wolf and it's not
17 just pulled out of the air to talk about other
18 people, even though it might in fact relate to other
19 individuals, including John and Patsy. So I want you
20 to understand, I'm not trying to push the Chief or
21 you here beyond the limits and that's why I tried to
22 explain it. But I think you, and I hope you would,
23 appreciate the difficult task that we have.
24 And we -- I agreed to that request by you
25 because I wanted to try to get the relevant questions
87
1 as we perceived them that would relate to the
2 difficult case of defending the Wolf matter out to
3 perhaps in a way that avoids having to fight with you
4 all now about going further, which ultimately is
5 still an issue in the case if we don't survive
6 getting out of the case on summary judgment.
7 MR. MILLER: Let me just say I appreciate
8 what you say. It's difficult for you, it's also
9 difficult for us. Because as you point out, there is
10 an ongoing investigation, not just an open case.
11 There is an active, ongoing criminal investigation.
12 And I think where we are on this line of
13 questioning is that you're impinging on that ongoing
14 investigation. He has answered the question with
15 specific reference to Chris Wolf and that's, I think,
16 the line that we seek to draw here. And so I have
17 advised the Chief that I do think that as it relates
18 to everybody else in the world, including the
19 Ramseys, does impinge on an ongoing investigation
20 and, therefore, I have advised him that it should be
21 privileged and he should not answer it.
22 MR. WOOD: Okay. I don't want to be
23 disrespectful to that instruction. I assume you are
24 taking a law enforcement statement privilege?
25 MR. MILLER: Yes.
Wink,wink.