TX - Longview, WhtFem (UP 9863), 41-50, Suicide - Assumed Identity, Dec'10

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ClaireNC There was no autopsy done, but she obviously was not transgendered or a hermaphrodite. They have done DNA tests which clearly show if a person is male or female. Also she had a baby. A person needs to have all of the right female body parts to carry and deliver a baby. Even if that baby might have been conceived through in vitro fertilization. Let's just stop the "she is transgendered" speculation, now.

If she was born with both sets of sexual organs (intersexed) she could DNA test either way. Parents may raise the child as one gender when the child was actually the opposite gender but physically had both sets of sexual organs, either internally, externally, or in a combination thereof. If a person retains their female sexual organs, internal and/or external, that person very well could have had a child.

Transgendered is not the same thing as a person born intersexed who in later life chooses which gender/sex to be (which may or may not be against what one's parents chose in the beginning).

I may have forgotten, but I don't recall reading anything about this Jane Doe having had a DNA test.
 
If she was born with both sets of sexual organs (intersexed) she could DNA test either way. Parents may raise the child as one gender when the child was actually the opposite gender but physically had both sets of sexual organs, either internally, externally, or in a combination thereof. If a person retains their female sexual organs, internal and/or external, that person very well could have had a child.

Transgendered is not the same thing as a person born intersexed who in later life chooses which gender/sex to be (which may or may not be against what one's parents chose in the beginning).

I may have forgotten, but I don't recall reading anything about this Jane Doe having had a DNA test.

Her DNA was tested--that's how we know she has the gene for heart disease. It's in the Seattle article.
 
If she was born with both sets of sexual organs (intersexed) she could DNA test either way.

A DNA test would have shown if she was a hermaphrodite, so I think we can safely assume that she was female.
 
New Here, came from the Seattle Times article and have read all 80+ pages of this discussion! I have to admit, I've probably lurked around on this site a long time - anyway, I am *obsessed* with this woman's story! She would be a few months older than I am based on the birthdate on her documents, I feel very certain she is far older than 18 on her Boise ID, my guess would be mid 20's. Her face seems very angular for a teenager and she doesn't really have any "baby fat".

One thing I think is curious is the speculation that she might be one of Jahnke kids. That website that was mentioned earlier in this thread http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2006/10/22/richard-jahnke-murder-111682-cheyenne-wy/ has some interesting info - the family lived in Scottsdale, and the kids are half-Puerto Rican (maybe this is how she would be familiar with Cuban food?). Also she'd obviously know how to use a gun. There are commenters on that website that would have been in school with those kids and mention that their understanding is that Deborah changed her name and went on with a new life. Her sentence was commuted in '83 I think. It seems like it would be weird for her to do the loompanics version of obtaining a new identity and *then* go to Texas and give convincing testimony to a judge to change her identity to LEK though.
 
Since so many of us have been diligently combing through all the missing persons reports with no real standouts, I started trying to come up with reasons why it might be that no one was ever looking for her, as sad as that is. Feel free to add your ideas!

1. She is from another country (here illegally?)
2. She has no living relatives
3. She left "bad" people who are incarcerated/still involved in crime/abused her/just don't care/kidnapped her
4. Her family is uneducated/sheltered with no resources/mentally ill
5. She left her family as an adult and intentionally and firmly cut off contact - they never looked because she wasn't "missing"
6. She was a foster child/ward of the state who aged out without ever being adopted

What baffles me is that in any of the scenarios above, wouldn't she at least have friends or classmates who would wonder what became of her? She must have had some education because she was able to pass the GED. She could have been homeschooled, but that would perhaps make scenarios 3, 4, and 6 less likely.
 
And actually, if she bounced from a ton of different foster care situations and was never adopted, that might explain the desire for an easy-bake oven and a tendency to be over-protective when it came to her daughter.

Maybe she didn't give any details about her family because she truly didn't know any.
 
Since so many of us have been diligently combing through all the missing persons reports with no real standouts, I started trying to come up with reasons why it might be that no one was ever looking for her, as sad as that is. Feel free to add your ideas!

1. She is from another country (here illegally?)
2. She has no living relatives
3. She left "bad" people who are incarcerated/still involved in crime/abused her/just don't care/kidnapped her
4. Her family is uneducated/sheltered with no resources/mentally ill
5. She left her family as an adult and intentionally and firmly cut off contact - they never looked because she wasn't "missing"
6. She was a foster child/ward of the state who aged out without ever being adopted

What baffles me is that in any of the scenarios above, wouldn't she at least have friends or classmates who would wonder what became of her? She must have had some education because she was able to pass the GED. She could have been homeschooled, but that would perhaps make scenarios 3, 4, and 6 less likely.

7. She tapered off contact slowly, maybe only sending a postcard at Xmas and birthdays, until the only people who were left were unlikely to contact her.
8.She behaved so badly before she left that everyone is glad she's gone and thinks she'd never dare show her face.
9.She left under circumstances that resulted in her being presumed dead.
10.She is on the run from the law and her family think she does not make contact for fear of blowing her cover.
 
Her DNA was tested--that's how we know she has the gene for heart disease. It's in the Seattle article.

Thanks for the reference FiveFelines. So it is certain (I say that without having seen the actual DNA report) she is genetically a female with a gene for a (specific?) heart disease. That settles that.

I know you are kindly furnishing info on the DNA test but even at that she still could be an inter-sexed person who was raised as a boy but chose the female gender and sex when she was of the age to do so. Her DNA can't be changed but physical components for the inter-sexed person can be. I don't see how anyone can say one way or another when there is evidence pointing to that possibility unless there is evidence not being made public that disproves that possibility. A DNA test does not disprove intersexuality.
 
Regarding the transgender issue: the family stated she was undergoing fertility treatments and finally ended up having IVF. I myself have experienced SECONDARY UNEXPLAINED infertility and went through the whole process up to but NOT including IVF. I was examined head to toe and genetically tested by my RE. She would have done the same and the RE would have mentioned if she had man parts. Plus, who's to say it wasn't Blake that was the problem, not her.( bad swimmers) I bet the Ruffs wouldn't disclose that!
 
Whoa.. I seriously had no idea that Synanon was considered a cult or whatever. i know quite a few people who went to the center in CA, they are still sober and never said anything bad. their "game" was used at a treatment center I myself went to in the early 90's (in NYC not CA). I forget what it was called though, it wasn't referred to as the game. I'll have to ask my mom. It sucked though.
And as an earlier poster stated, she did not spell Hollywood correctly on her notes.. that seems to me we could rule out her living in California for any amount of time... I think anyone who lived in a state could spell something as popular and common as Hollywood..
 
Regarding the transgender issue: the family stated she was undergoing fertility treatments and finally ended up having IVF. I myself have experienced SECONDARY UNEXPLAINED infertility and went through the whole process up to but NOT including IVF. I was examined head to toe and genetically tested by my RE. She would have done the same and the RE would have mentioned if she had man parts. Plus, who's to say it wasn't Blake that was the problem, not her.( bad swimmers) I bet the Ruffs wouldn't disclose that!

BBM #1
Maybe her "man parts' had been surgically altered (if she were intersexed ... which is just speculation). At any rate, I doubt her medical records are available to the public.

BBM #2
I bet the Ruffs and/or Jane Doe's husband wouldn't disclose a lot of things. Plus, they aren't the ones interested in conducting an investigation and it is highly probable they would do what needs to be done to protect their grand daughter.

I'd go so far as to say that they might even wish this entire thing would go away.

I'm still hung up on why Jane Doe's case is so important to the IRS!
 
Oh, and most hermaphrodites are infertile...

Didn't someone just say she'd undergone fertility treatments? We really don't know the details of her medical history and she may have been one of the lucky ones.
 
And as an earlier poster stated, she did not spell Hollywood correctly on her notes.. that seems to me we could rule out her living in California for any amount of time... I think anyone who lived in a state could spell something as popular and common as Hollywood..

I agree, but I could see her possibly misspelling "Hollywood" if she was jotting down notes while talking on the phone or looking something up. I can be a grammar/spelling Nazi when it comes to work, but I still leave out letters and such if I'm just quickly taking notes and know that no one else would see it but me.
 
I'm still hung up on why Jane Doe's case is so important to the IRS!

I thought it was because she stole someone's identity initially, and now this one investigator is personally interested in it. (?)
 
BBM #1
I'm still hung up on why Jane Doe's case is so important to the IRS!

I thought it was the Social Security Administration, not the IRS. The SSA would be looking into it because she used someone else's identity and SSN.
 
I was just about to say it was the SS administration not the IRS. And to make a point again, from experience, different agencies DO NOT USUALLY SHARE INFORMATION. Sometimes even when they are on the same task force. If they all did more criminals would be found out!
 
She had fertility problems, breast augmentation surgery, heavy browbones, possibly had rhinoplasty, she appears to have a low waist-to-hip measurement ratio, she has an enlarged pharynx (Adam's apple), overly large hands even for a tall woman, she claims to have spent time in Thailand. I could probably come up with more but don't see a real reason to continue. :facepalm:

The fertility problems (they believe) came about because she was most likely much older than she said she was; possibly very close to menopause. There are very few pictures of her entire body and in those she's wearing loose clothing. How can you tell what her waist to hip ratio is? What's a "heavy browbone"? Her eyebrows themselves appear feminine and are the same in all the pictures, young or old. She does have a bit of what appears to be an adams apple but that may be something she inherited. If you believe she was a he-she, that's fine but I am not sure we should derail the thread over it, since it's every bit as likely she was and has always been female.
 
Does 402 equal 45 years?
I'm too pooped to do the math!
Much lay appreciated.
 
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