IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

Geez, I even dreamed about Lauren...can't tell when I am awake or asleep anymore. Lauren's dad's quotes that were posted here last night, from an interview that I believe took place last evening, are not very heartening as far as learning anything new at today's PC. Sounds like he doesn't know any more than he did on Wednesday. I guess we can hope LE will provide a new detail.

The more I think about the wording of LE about the 3:38 sighting, the more I think that the action the witness described did take place, or action very much like it, and they have it on video, just not at that time. And therefore feel comfortable in saying that this man is no mystery to them. I wish WE could get a look at all of the mug shots...I'm not finding photos of any of the known POI's anymore.

DR's FB is still public, and while he has not posted on it in almost 10 days, he did initially post about searching for Lauren on June 4, 5 & 6, for what it is worth. Then a post about being at home, so may be back in NY, if that is where he lives.

What he said is that LS appears on the video (at a different time) with someone known to the investigators, and not "this man is no mystery to us."
Whoever she appears with might have no similarities whatsoever with what was described as "mystery man."

jjenny said:

What he said is that LS appears on the video (at a different time) with someone known to the investigators, and not "this man is no mystery to us."
Whoever she appears with might have no similarities whatsoever with what was described as "mystery man."

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Right, but some carrying of Lauren at some point would not be surprising, with her being barefoot and apparently/allegedly, intoxicated.

cluciano63 said:

Right, but some carrying of Lauren at some point would not be surprising, with her being barefoot and apparently/allegedly, intoxicated.

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Agreed.

cluciano63 said:

Geez, I even dreamed about Lauren...can't tell when I am awake or asleep anymore. Lauren's dad's quotes that were posted here last night, from an interview that I believe took place last evening, are not very heartening as far as learning anything new at today's PC. Sounds like he doesn't know any more than he did on Wednesday. I guess we can hope LE will provide a new detail.

The more I think about the wording of LE about the 3:38 sighting, the more I think that the action the witness described did take place, or action very much like it, and they have it on video, just not at that time. And therefore feel comfortable in saying that this man is no mystery to them. I wish WE could get a look at all of the mug shots...I'm not finding photos of any of the known POI's anymore.

DR's FB is still public, and while he has not posted on it in almost 10 days, he did initially post about searching for Lauren on June 4, 5 & 6, for what it is worth. Then a post about being at home, so may be back in NY, if that is where he lives.

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Regarding the action the witness described, wasn't there a point when they said they saw "activity" on the video cameras, but were not disclosing what the "activity" was? Maybe the activity was her falling, hitting her head, and being picked up and slung over someone's shoulder? If the activity matches what the witness described, but the location and timing does not, their statements about the witness would make sense to me. It would also make sense to me that the witness did not think much of it at the time, if the two people had been walking as friends, then that happened, which drew her attention. but later information made her realize the possible significance of it. In her mind, she may have merged the memory of the clock saying 3:38 with the memory of the college kids, because I'm pretty sure I've done that--subconsciously merged stories or details of events if I did not recognize the significance at the time, but did later. I think there is even a name for it, but I don't recall it.

jennyb629 said:

This story just came out this morning. It's kind of interesting, not a whole lot of information though...it describes the psychological reasons that a lot of times in crises, especially those involving young people, people with information do not come forward. Seems pretty understandable--if really sad and unfortunate--to me. Many on this board have discussed the element of self-preservation that many of the POIs in this case are demonstrating.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201106...ers-experts-say?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|News

I wonder, though, in this case, the farther removed they get from it if a) they will be more likely to put it behind them and even psychologically recreate the event in their minds so that they essentially push it completely out of their minds or create some alternative reality about it to minimize their guilt and basically carry on as normal, b) they will have so much guilt that they will not be able to really live a normal life but they will still remain too scared to come forward, c) I guess it's possible, though I think highly unlikely, that they actually don't know very much or wouldn't be able to help anyway and therefore won't feel enough guilt to come forward, or d) they will mature, become responsible adults, realize their mistakes and come to finally sympathize more with the parents and eventually contribute information (obviously preferable if this could just happen NOW instead of sometime down the road once these people have grown up a little but...) However, the optimist in me still thinks that if most of these friends involved are essentially good people at heart they will eventually feel guilty and confess something...I really hope so.

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The LoHud article states that Mrs. Spierer believes only one of Lauren's friends has come forward with info to give LE.

Wow. I'm frankly stunned by the sheer volume of alleged friends with broken moral compasses.

I've refrained from commenting for a few days. I was sure there was something to this 3:38am sighting. Now who knows. It all just gets more and more complicated.

Anyway ... Here are my thoughts about the fact that she was reported missing at 3pm.

REALLY? 3pm? I know some people have mentioned that reporting her missing at 3pm is premature and suspicious and I agree, though I am not sure it points to JW being involved in her disappearance.

I think there were probably lots of rumors going around the morning of June 3. What those rumors are is anybody's guess, but IMO the most plausible is the OD theory.

I am 4 years out of college so perhaps a little removed for my judgment to be completely on point, but if my roommate didn't come home I probably would call or text one or two people but not think much of it. It would take longer for me to get concerned. Especially if my roommate was the party girl that LS supposedly was. And from what I hear, she was one hell of a party girl.

This crowd is one that I am very familiar with - to the extent that I am from the tri-state area and share their culture and socio-economic status. I have spoken to people that have met and hung out with LS as they, too, went to Indiana. One of the POIs siblings is very close friends with a friend of mine and has visited my friend's apartment a few times since this story broke, but I refrained from asking about it or mentioning any of this upon hearing that they had hung out since (I swear!).

There were a lot of OD rumors going around long (days) before it was mentioned in MSM. It's hearsay, sure, I heard from a friend of mine who spoke with her friend that went to Indiana and has hung out with LS and that crowd several times. So I think those rumors started very early amongst that crowd, and although no one knew for sure (except for 1 or 2 people that were probably acting very shady) the rumors were enough to warrant a missing persons report by 3pm.

I imagine that either JW or HT were the first concerned, so between the two of them (probably mostly contact from HT) called one if not all of CR/MB/JR/DR. When the story didn't quite make sense, and they all knew her condition that night, they realized it was time to get police involved.

In any case, these kids know more than the MSM has been privy to, but it doesn't mean that they haven't told LE all this already. In fact, I would imagine that they have. If I heard this stuff all the way in NYC from these Indiana kids, you would think LE did too.

So my point is, rumors travel really fast ... they didn't report her missing at 3pm just because. They reported her missing at 3pm because by then they had enough reason to feel like she was in danger, or worse.

Her mom says only one of her friends contacted LE with info. Which kind of makes me disagree with the idea they told LE all they know.

So last night I finally fell asleep. This is where I left off. Before CR and LS went to Kilroys they were hanging out at JRs. We know that this group of friends contained: LS, CR, DR, MB and JR. Since that's 4 males and 1 female, I can pretty much assume that there are names missing, some of them female.
After a while at JRs, the group splits up. LS + CR go to Kilroys. MB goes to studies, DR goes back to Smallwood. That leaves JR. What is he doing, all alone? Or, who is he with that we don't know about?

About JW. Who of his friends were involved with the altercation with CR at Smallwood that night? How many of those friends were his room mates?

They are gearing up some pretty large searches this weekend. I hope that there is a really good turnout.

elmomom said:

After a while at JRs, the group splits up. LS + CR go to Kilroys. MB goes to studies, DR goes back to Smallwood. That leaves JR. What is he doing, all alone? Or, who is he with that we don't know about?

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Wasn't it reported that LS went to Kilroy's alone? That CR was not in fact with her? I could be mistaken.

jjenny said:

Her mom says only one of her friends contacted LE with info. Which kind of makes me disagree with the idea they told LE all they know.

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I believe her Mom is referring to people who are not POIs or the persons POIs have named, all but one or two of whom have been questioned at one point or another by LE. LE has described interviews with a large number of people.

Does anyone know if JW was also involved in the drug scene at all?

I'm about to throw out a really, really far-fetched scenario. the above conversation about other female students missing led me to look at some of their stories. I noticed two others who had both recently broke up with their boyfriends and had recently experimented with drugs. One of them had reportedly shown up naked and confused at a rural home, was taken to the hospital, reported that people were after her, then disappeared sometime after being discharged but before going home. I googled "my girlfriend's on drugs" and found some interesting advice requests, including one where the guy said he did not want to notify his girlfriend's parents, so he was going to solicit the help of a professional. In my imaginative "i want a scenario where she is still alive" world, I imagined some overzealous anti-drug and alcohol treatment group/facility that would take someone involuntarily at the request of a boyfriend. I know it sounds dumb, but I was curious if JW is into the drug scene or if recent experimentation could have caused a rift between them.

sv614 said:

Wasn't it reported that LS went to Kilroy's alone? That CR was not in fact with her? I could be mistaken.

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I think this has been rumored several ways. Once rumor I heard was that she was alone at Kilroys, no CR in sight. Hard to fathom the alone part, college kids travel in pairs or herds, depending on the activity. But we do know that after leaving Kilroys, she and CR were together returning to Smallwood from Kilroys.

sv614 said:

Wasn't it reported that LS went to Kilroy's alone? That CR was not in fact with her? I could be mistaken.

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Not by msm.

rlc said:

Does anyone know if JW was also involved in the drug scene at all?

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I have been trying to read between the lines of the manner of speech about the players involved here. I find it interesting that JR is described as friends of HT, and LS, but never JW. And that we have JW hanging out watching a basketball game with his friends, while LS is watching the same game, reportedly, with her friends. And they had plans to meet up sometime afterwards (but never did). It very well could be that the explanation of the verbal separation between her friends and his friends is more like those that "party" and those that don't. Wild speculation though.

elmomom said:

So last night I finally fell asleep. This is where I left off. Before CR and LS went to Kilroys they were hanging out at JRs. We know that this group of friends contained: LS, CR, DR, MB and JR. Since that's 4 males and 1 female, I can pretty much assume that there are names missing, some of them female.
After a while at JRs, the group splits up. LS + CR go to Kilroys. MB goes to studies, DR goes back to Smallwood. That leaves JR. What is he doing, all alone? Or, who is he with that we don't know about?

About JW. Who of his friends were involved with the altercation with CR at Smallwood that night? How many of those friends were his room mates

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One possible correction re JR's - I too believed that MB was among the group there, but subsequently have gained some doubt on this point - it may have been just LS, DR, JR, and CR. My assumption has always been that there was drug use during this time, and that this may have been the purpose of going to JR's. As to what JR did afterwards, or with whom other than LS and DR (CR may have stayed a little longer if he did not go with LS to the bar - it's possible she and DR walked back to Smallwood, then she went to the bar), I haven't the foggiest. I don't know necessarily that there's any reason to assume that he remained at his place (other than that it was 1:30-3AM), especially if he was using a stimulant. But it appears that he did not encounter LS during this time.

As to the Smallwood group, I believe they are residents of the building, though I could be wrong. They have typically been described as friends of JW, but I have also seen them described as friends of LS - the former may (accurately?) have described themselves as the latter, perhaps. I believe they may have been surprised to encounter LS with CR, rather than awaiting them, or even her. I do not know how many roommates JW has, but it's my impression that at least one of them was with JW at this time and not at Smallwood.

elmomom said:

So last night I finally fell asleep. This is where I left off. Before CR and LS went to Kilroys they were hanging out at JRs. We know that this group of friends contained: LS, CR, DR, MB and JR. Since that's 4 males and 1 female, I can pretty much assume that there are names missing, some of them female.
After a while at JRs, the group splits up. LS + CR go to Kilroys. MB goes to studies, DR goes back to Smallwood. That leaves JR. What is he doing, all alone? Or, who is he with that we don't know about?

About JW. Who of his friends were involved with the altercation with CR at Smallwood that night? How many of those friends were his room mates?

They are gearing up some pretty large searches this weekend. I hope that there is a really good turnout.

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Yes. There almost have to be people that we don't know about (i.e., haven't even heard in rumor) who were out with Lauren that night.

If JR felt like staying home alone at 1:46... he wouldn't feel like 'partying' at 3:30. I don't know if I buy that Lauren would be alone with JR after leaving CR's, either unless there was something romantic going on.

elmomom said:

I have been trying to read between the lines of the manner of speech about the players involved here. I find it interesting that JR is described as friends of HT, and LS, but never JW. And that we have JW hanging out watching a basketball game with his friends, while LS is watching the same game, reportedly, with her friends. And they had plans to meet up sometime afterwards (but never did). It very well could be that the explanation of the verbal separation between her friends and his friends is more like those that "party" and those that don't. Wild speculation though.

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I share this suspicion, though I similarly have little to base it on. My speculation is that JW may well engage in the "soft" drug use that is common among college students, but does not "party" as that term is often understood by young people (i.e. use cocaine or equivalent). I could be completely wrong.

I've just started following this case in the last few days, so I apologize if this has been asked before.

But how do we know that the 4:30 time quote was actually 4:30? Not 3:30, not 5:30, but 4:30? As a former drunk college student, I can guarantee that I couldn't put an exact time on my whereabouts the night before unless it was at closing time.

Not that this makes a whole lot of difference to the cameras, seems that LE are searching through hours of tape.

I am highly suspicious and think a high probability is that there is another person who was traveling with LS this evening. Or at least heavily present in the time line. A person that we have not heard mentioned whatsoever, but not necessarily unknown to LE.