Phone Calls and Phone Records

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BigCityAccountant said:
I think that would have something to do with him being the last person to see her. Don't you think it is odd that 2 hours after she got there, that he leaves a message saying (not quoting here) where are you? After all, the bus driver saw her there a hour before--so we do know that SA was the last person to see her alive and he did disguise who he was when he called Auto Trader.
Click to expand...

I don't find it odd at all considering he never left a message like that nor ever denied she was there.
 
BigCityAccountant said:
From Strang's opening statements from the trial transcripts:

Steven Avery calls her later, as a
7 matter of fact, from his cell phone. Again, he
8 calls her cell phone at about 4:35 that
9 afternoon. Why, because he thought, I have got
10 another car I would like to sell. I might as
11 well, if she's still around, or if she can swing
12 back, I might as well have her shoot that one
13 too.
14 But he doesn't get an answer from her,
15 doesn't answer the phone, when he calls at 4:35.
Page 128
Click to expand...

I'm no in the mod to read the transcripts yet, but did he leave a voicemail? And if so, was it one deleted by her brother?
 
missy1974 said:
ahhh yes, I stand corrected!
I just read your post over there.... I have a question, not necessarily for you LOL I think I'm on information overload! LOL

If she left the message on BJ's answer machine and on the message she said she could be there around 2 or later and just needed to know if that worked, who called her back to let her know that the time would work? His first call to her was after 2pm right? so until that call, she didn't have confirmation that the time was good.... I'm leaning towards the 3:30ish time starting to sound way more plausible. (I have been debating this in my mind lol)
Click to expand...

I too have had the same questions. His first was at around 2:24 but it was only 8 Seconds long. The second call at 2:35 did not even register her phone. They got that *67 call from his bill.
So Who was it that did confirm this appointment time and when? Seems more to me that she was due to be there a little after 2:15 lets say. Even a little later than the two O'clock. So she had 1:30 at SS in New Holstein, and she knew she would be committing the little after two for BJ just needed to confirm. Knowing it would take her a bit of time to drive there. Had the appointment with the "AVERY BROTHERS" as testified by the AT employees by 2:27pm. DP testifies that TH stated she was going to the AVERY BROTHERS NOW! The information with the time routes to each Manitowoc Co. Residences, I just find it more likely that GZ was the last customer that day. Not saying I believe he is the last to see her alive. Just think that JoZ who testified to recieving a message from TH while she was working in the yard before she arrived stating that she was a little lost and could not find the place. TH arrived but the message wasnt heard till later. What time was that message at i wonder. They only mention one call to the The GZ residence on her phone. Was this the one to confirm the time or was this the one where shes calling cause she is lost? I think the 2:12 phone call to GZ was to set up the appointment that came in through a lead from the telemarket service a little later that day. And since she was already headed out to Manitowoc she would be able to also fit in this NEW customer.
 
missy1974 said:
the leaving a message 2 hours later..... is as far as I can tell, a myth..... one that Kratz made up. There is zero evidence about any message he left. Also... according to Colborn, when he went to see SA the evening of November 3rd, SA told him that yes she was there, she took pictures, she didn't say if she had any other appointments, and she left. The idea that SA denied her being there.... I have not seen any whatsoever.

Disguised who he was? It was Barb's vehicle. And according to AutoTrader, TH told them she was going to the Avery's, the 2:27 call... she was on her way to the Avery brothers. She had 3 known appointments that day. One other one was also called into Autotrader by someone and she met with and went to another residence.... was he disguising who he was too?
Click to expand...

Just give up Missy. For some people, if Kratz said it happened... Well, it must be true. Kratz also said he was "the prize" so most people should take his word for anything with a grain of salt.
 
The Timeline I have going for all the Players for just Oct 31, It is work in progress adding and deleting or correcting things as I read the transcripts, warrants, Interviews, Etc....


Oct 31 2005.

8:12am Steve Avery makes a 2min 38sec call to Auto Trader. He supposedly requested the same girl as last time. (THIS IS HEARSAY). *Exhibit 360 and 17
Auto Trader: They take a record of his appointment. The handwritten piece of paper states The customers name and ACCOUNT #. What does it mean to have an account with Auto Trader? The address is
clearly written down and the type of the car a 1989 Dodge Minivan. The price she was to collect
from the appointment which was 39.95. No special instructions. The Account did all the Avery's have an account or was the account just in Barb's name. Then I would wonder if the account is always used when
placing their cars in the magazine?

9:46am. Auto Trader called Teresa but this call only lasts 33 seconds. Did they leave her a message? what was the message they left her? Did Teresa have a landline also at the house she lived in?
*Exhibit 362

11:00am or sometime there after TH calls Auto Trader and gets her manager, DP is on lunch, Leaves
Message for DP that she will be able to get out and see that customer and to send her the info.

11:04am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362

11:27am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

11:31am Unknown call *Exhibit 381

11:35am Unknown call *Exhibit 362 and 381

11:43am Call's BJ's and leaves the last known message of being able to come out that after noon around two o'clock or even a little later. ANSWERING MACHINE. Meaning someone at the BJ house that day gave Steven that phone number. *Exhibit 362 and 381


12:29pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

12:39pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

12:45pm Unknown call *Exhibit 381

12:51pm She makes a call to her first appointment that day SS.*Exhibit 362 and 381.

1:30pm Arrives at SS in New Holstein 10-15mins

1:52pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

2:12pm She calls GZ *Exhibit 362 and 381

2:13pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

2:15pm-3:15pm ST is driving from Greenbay back to Mishicot

2:24pm Steven avery calles her *67 *Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

2:27pm Auto Trader calls Teresa and she supposedly said she was on her way to the Avery Brothers.
*Exhibit 362 and 381

2:30pm BoD testifies to seeing Teresa Pull up take the pictures and walk back towards SA's for payment.
2:45pm Bod Testifies to leaving at this time and still seeing TH's Rav outside, but not her.

2:35pm Steve calls Teresa using the *67 blocking feature but it dont connect to her phone. *Exhibit 360

2:41pm Unknown call and CFNA is used. Last known time she acutally uses her own phone itself.

3:00pm JoZ testifies that TH came around this time on Oct 31, 2005, She is reminded she don't really know, she didnt wear a watch and that eventually becomes 2-2:30pm by the time they are done. 10-15mins.

3:10pm ST statement sees BoD who was passing him to hunt behind ST's house and ST was headed to his
Hunting Stand
3:30pm ST arrives at his Stand somewhere in the woods unknown.

3:30-3:40pm Bus Driver LB testifies to seeing a woman taking pictures of a van that day.

3:30-4:00pm A truck driver reports seeing a car like TH's leave the yard within this time.

4:35pm Steve calls Teresa w/no feature and her bill reflects 13 seconds his 00 seconds.
*Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

4:45pm Cingular Wireless testifies her phone is powered down at this time.

5:00-5:30 BJ arrives home BD is home so is BlD.

5:15-5:30 ST arrives to pick up BJ, Avery is standing outside with BJ and son of BJ's he dont know?

5:20pm BlD leaves to go out with friends family trick or treating.

5:36pm Call from County Jail recorded with JS 15 mins

5:57pm Steven calls his brother CA and talks for about 5 minutes *Exhibit 360

6:00pm BlD's Boss calls up to talk to him but gets BD. He states BlD is not home.

7:00pm BD gets a call to come by SA's place. (was this a call made on SA's House phone?"

7:30-7:45pm ST drops BJ off at her home on AVery Rd.

8:00pm ST arrives home

8:47pm Call form County Jail Recorded with JS 15 mins

9:00pm BJ arrives at ST's Home This changes after the first statement to 8:30 and then 8pm.

9:20pm Steven calls BJ but last 00seconds. *Exhibit 360

11:00-12:00am BJ leaves ST and goes back to her home. This changes in his 3rd to her staying the night.
 
cell phone record.png
ok... I think... the 1:52 call was the Zipperers, she left a message saying she couldn't find the place.
2:12 and 2:13 were SA I think. She may have still been at the Zipperer residence. We know that by 2:27, she was on her way to the Avery brothers place.... that could mean she is just leaving, already driving there, planning on going shortly, etc.

So I'm guessing... until she heard from SA, there was no confirmation yet and him calling confirmed it. (it was already after 2 at this point)

I find it strange that there were no calls in/out after that 2:41 call. She wouldn't have even been at SA's yet according to the timing of the calls. She didn't even hear from SA until 2:12/2:13.

Is it... or was it possible to forward a cell phone from a different phone in 2005? or from a computer? it just seems so random. I'm inclined to think the CFNA means call forward no answer... so is this the code that would come up if you hit ignore answer or could send it to VM.
 
That 1:52pm call is not even on the second part of that evidence. Some of the calls were skipped over. Why? There was also an unknown call that happened at 2:41pm we cannot really be sure that this call wasn't a second call to the GZ residence any more than we can tell the 1:52pm one is. Plus since she was faxed the GZ appointment she must have had that before she left her own home. So why not show exactly when she called her customers that day.

attachment.php
 
that doesn't even make sense now that I'm looking at it with the cell bill in front of me too LOL
 
Sustained said:
Sure, makes sense. Steven cleaned the key of all TH's DNA and left his own on it. Probably never thought LE would actually try the key on the RAV4.

No, it reeks of something far more sinister and Zellner knows it.
Click to expand...

He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He mistakenly believed using *67 meant it wouldn't show up on his own phone records.

But, in all seriousness he probably did try to 'clean' the key with his shirt or didn't wear gloves when handling it.
 
Maybe this would help others see how the first of her bill matches the second of her bill records that were seen in the trial.
tried to color code the calls

attachment.php


There are also the 2 calls earlier on the one record that is from auto trader at 9:46am when DP first called TH and left a message with her.
There is another call at 11:04 that she made to her voicemail. not shown on this image.
 
MysticJynx said:
The Timeline I have going for all the Players for just Oct 31, It is work in progress adding and deleting or correcting things as I read the transcripts, warrants, Interviews, Etc....


Oct 31 2005.

8:12am Steve Avery makes a 2min 38sec call to Auto Trader. He supposedly requested the same girl as last time. (THIS IS HEARSAY). *Exhibit 360 and 17
Auto Trader: They take a record of his appointment. The handwritten piece of paper states The customers name and ACCOUNT #. What does it mean to have an account with Auto Trader? The address is
clearly written down and the type of the car a 1989 Dodge Minivan. The price she was to collect
from the appointment which was 39.95. No special instructions. The Account did all the Avery's have an account or was the account just in Barb's name. Then I would wonder if the account is always used when
placing their cars in the magazine?

9:46am. Auto Trader called Teresa but this call only lasts 33 seconds. Did they leave her a message? what was the message they left her? Did Teresa have a landline also at the house she lived in?
*Exhibit 362

11:00am or sometime there after TH calls Auto Trader and gets her manager, DP is on lunch, Leaves
Message for DP that she will be able to get out and see that customer and to send her the info.

11:04am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362

11:27am picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

11:31am Unknown call *Exhibit 381

11:35am Unknown call *Exhibit 362 and 381

11:43am Call's BJ's and leaves the last known message of being able to come out that after noon around two o'clock or even a little later. ANSWERING MACHINE. Meaning someone at the BJ house that day gave Steven that phone number. *Exhibit 362 and 381


12:29pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

12:39pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

12:45pm Unknown call *Exhibit 381

12:51pm She makes a call to her first appointment that day SS.*Exhibit 362 and 381.

1:30pm Arrives at SS in New Holstein 10-15mins

1:52pm Unknown Call *Exhibit 381

2:12pm She calls GZ *Exhibit 362 and 381

2:13pm picks up her own voicemails *Exhibit 362 and 381

2:15pm-3:15pm ST is driving from Greenbay back to Mishicot

2:24pm Steven avery calles her *67 *Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

2:27pm Auto Trader calls Teresa and she supposedly said she was on her way to the Avery Brothers.
*Exhibit 362 and 381

2:30pm BoD testifies to seeing Teresa Pull up take the pictures and walk back towards SA's for payment.
2:45pm Bod Testifies to leaving at this time and still seeing TH's Rav outside, but not her.

2:35pm Steve calls Teresa using the *67 blocking feature but it dont connect to her phone. *Exhibit 360

2:41pm Unknown call and CFNA is used. Last known time she acutally uses her own phone itself.

3:00pm JoZ testifies that TH came around this time on Oct 31, 2005, She is reminded she don't really know, she didnt wear a watch and that eventually becomes 2-2:30pm by the time they are done. 10-15mins.

3:10pm ST statement sees BoD who was passing him to hunt behind ST's house and ST was headed to his
Hunting Stand
3:30pm ST arrives at his Stand somewhere in the woods unknown.

3:30-3:40pm Bus Driver LB testifies to seeing a woman taking pictures of a van that day.

3:30-4:00pm A truck driver reports seeing a car like TH's leave the yard within this time.

4:35pm Steve calls Teresa w/no feature and her bill reflects 13 seconds his 00 seconds.
*Exhibit 362, 360 and 381

4:45pm Cingular Wireless testifies her phone is powered down at this time.

5:00-5:30 BJ arrives home BD is home so is BlD.

5:15-5:30 ST arrives to pick up BJ, Avery is standing outside with BJ and son of BJ's he dont know?

5:20pm BlD leaves to go out with friends family trick or treating.

5:36pm Call from County Jail recorded with JS 15 mins

5:57pm Steven calls his brother CA and talks for about 5 minutes *Exhibit 360

6:00pm BlD's Boss calls up to talk to him but gets BD. He states BlD is not home.

7:00pm BD gets a call to come by SA's place. (was this a call made on SA's House phone?"

7:30-7:45pm ST drops BJ off at her home on AVery Rd.

8:00pm ST arrives home

8:47pm Call form County Jail Recorded with JS 15 mins

9:00pm BJ arrives at ST's Home This changes after the first statement to 8:30 and then 8pm.

9:20pm Steven calls BJ but last 00seconds. *Exhibit 360

11:00-12:00am BJ leaves ST and goes back to her home. This changes in his 3rd to her staying the night.
Click to expand...

What I find more interesting is the amount of "unknown calls" she was getting and the fact she didn't answer them but would soon after call her voicemail to get her messages. They clearly weren't Avery, she clearly wasn't answering these calls but she was clearly listening to her messages soon after the calls came in and then she wasn't calling the "unknown" caller back. Who was calling? Was it the same caller every time? Was there a reason she wasn't answering? Did the calls from this "unknown" caller stop around the time she disappeared?

Better question is why didn't LE request all this information? It's simple to request all of her cellphone records, not just voicemail records only. Who was calling her in the days and weeks leading up to her disappearance? Was there a pattern of one particular caller calling, leaving voicemails, her listening to them soon after but not returning any calls? Who was calling her after her disappearance? Did LE request information showing locations of her cellphone pings? This is one of those cases where the absence of evidence leaves you questioning just how much investigative work was done.
 
MysticJynx said:
Maybe this would help others see how the first of her bill matches the second of her bill records that were seen in the trial.
tried to color code the calls

attachment.php


There are also the 2 calls earlier on the one record that is from auto trader at 9:46am when DP first called TH and left a message with her.
There is another call at 11:04 that she made to her voicemail. not shown on this image.
Click to expand...

but it was said that SA called her twice with the *67 .... were they including the earlier call to AutoTrader? And when SA called her, it lasted 8 seconds..... that is no where near enough time to confirm the appointment. I'm missing something on this bill lol
 
ahhh ok, so I found the 2 calls.... according to the exhibit that has SA's calls out.... he called her at 2:24 7 seconds, 2:35, 0 seconds (doesn't even show on her records) and then at 4:35 again.

What I want to know is.... when and who confirmed that appointment????
 
MysticJynx said:
Maybe this would help others see how the first of her bill matches the second of her bill records that were seen in the trial.
tried to color code the calls

attachment.php


There are also the 2 calls earlier on the one record that is from auto trader at 9:46am when DP first called TH and left a message with her.
There is another call at 11:04 that she made to her voicemail. not shown on this image.
Click to expand...

I could have sworn I saw a different record that had a bunch of calls to her cell starting around 9:00 a.m. that looked like she never answered.
 
Regarding the *67 calls, was there any testimony Steven received the message from the message machine? BJ was at work (correct me if I am wrong) and Barry was asleep. The message went to BJ's machine in her residence. If he didn't receive the message, maybe that's why he called her the first time? The second time, maybe he made a misdial and hung up.
 
diesel said:
Regarding the *67 calls, was there any testimony Steven received the message from the message machine? BJ was at work (correct me if I am wrong) and Barry was asleep. The message went to BJ's machine in her residence. If he didn't receive the message, maybe that's why he called her the first time? The second time, maybe he made a misdial and hung up.
Click to expand...

Maybe he called her at 2:24 to see where she was cause someone obviously confirmed the appointment and she we was running late. Then She didnt answer cause it was *67. Three minutes later she talks to DP says that the appointment that called in was the AVERY BROTHERS. which she said several times on the stand. So she must have dealt with more than just one. This DP said that TH said she was heading there now. And then at 2:35 he dialed her as he saw her pull into the yard so he hung up.
 
I haven't had time to read the transcripts. I started on Barry's testimony. I believe they were asking him if he didn't hear the message machine recording the message and he said, no, he was asleep.

Was there testimony that someone confirmed the message from TH? Or that Steven heard the message that she might be late?
 
Limaes said:
He is not the sharpest tool in the shed. He mistakenly believed using *67 meant it wouldn't show up on his own phone records.

But, in all seriousness he probably did try to 'clean' the key with his shirt or didn't wear gloves when handling it.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know if Steven used *67 on any calls prior to 10/31. IMO, wiping the key with your hit would not remove all of TH's DNA.
Also, why did it take LE 4-5 searches of Steven's bedroom to find the key in a such a tiny room ?
 
missy1974 said:
ahhh ok, so I found the 2 calls.... according to the exhibit that has SA's calls out.... he called her at 2:24 7 seconds, 2:35, 0 seconds (doesn't even show on her records) and then at 4:35 again.

What I want to know is.... when and who confirmed that appointment????
Click to expand...

After reading the Fassbender statement of SA it sounded like he called back auto trader to tell them that the time would be ok sometime after her 11 he said. So where is that call back to auto trader? He also stated SA that is, that he knew she may not make it out there that monday when he called that morning. He was told it might be next monday. Sounds familiar testimony also given by her Employer at Auto Trader
 
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