Conrad Murray trial -Day five.

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Shelby1 said:
Maybe it was to prove he was on his other phone?
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They are going to call all time line witnesses and yes in CAs the state will point out the reason he didnt answer was because he was on the other phone.

A busy man but not busy being a doctor.

IMO
 
Bluesky#1 said:
IMO if the bag had been left at the house the doctor would have stated this was why his urine couldn't be tested and because she didn't, it doesn't sound like the bag was purposely removed and hidden.

So it seems like the reason his urine wasn’t tested was because there wasn’t any excreted from his body prior to or after his death; not a drop, which seems odd because MJ had been rehearsing for hours and because he would have perspired profusely, his body would have craved fluids after he stopped dancing.
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As far as I remember no one has mentioned any urine collection bag or bottle or jug except Ms Grace loudly on her show. The urine could have been collected in a used pickle jar that was emptied into the toilet in the mornings. But I don't recall anyone specifically saying anything about it. It sounded like the only part that anyone saw was the condom catheter itself and a piece of tubing attached, no urine bag or receptacle. There was no urine passed from the patient at the hospital.
 
Bluesky#1 said:
How long had Dr. Murray worked for MJ before he died and how many times did
Dr. Murray gave Michael Propofol? TIA
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Since he reordered another shipment of propofol on May 12, 2009 it had to be when he became MJs doctor...which the state in the opening said was in April.

So he had done this countless times. I truly think at first Murray was totally hands on and monitored him constantly but on June 25 for some reason known only to him he had his mind on other things and certainly not on his patient which had to be constantly monitored and Murray knew this. I think he hooked up the bottle of propofol incorrectly that day and the entire bottle flooded into MJ system killing him instantly.

It is very obvious that he is not tending to his one and only patient that morning. He was way too busy talking/texting and emailing and as these distractions were happening he killed his patient due to not monitoring him at all and recklessly causing his death.

IMO
 
Bluesky#1 said:
How long had Dr. Murray worked for MJ before he died and how many times did
Dr. Murray gave Michael Propofol? TIA
Click to expand...

Murray started working for MJ in April 2009. Nobody really knows for sure when, how much, or how often Murray gave MJ propofol There are records of how much propofol Murray ordered during that time period. If I recall correctly it was about four gallons in lots of small containers.
 
Thundar said:
As far as I remember no one has mentioned any urine collection bag or bottle or jug except Ms Grace loudly on her show. The urine could have been collected in a used pickle jar that was emptied into the toilet in the mornings. But I don't recall anyone specifically saying anything about it. It sounded like the only part that anyone saw was the condom catheter itself and a piece of tubing attached, no urine bag or receptacle. There was no urine passed from the patient at the hospital.
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There was a bottle of urine sitting on one of the chairs close to the bed, iirc.

That is why it never made sense that CM told LE he went to urinate and was going to pour the collected urine in the bottle away because the bottle still had urine in it when MJ died. It wasn't thrown away.

IMO
 
More girlfriends, investigators next in trial of Michael Jackson's doctor

The women's testimony is important since their phone calls to Murray help establish the timeline of what he was doing before Jackson's death, and because the surgical anesthetic propofol the prosecution says killed him were shipped to one of their homes.

Murray's defense lawyers contend Jackson caused his own death by swallowing eight lorazepam pills and orally ingesting propofol while Murray was out of the room.





http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/04/justi...n=Feed:+rss/cnn_topstories+(RSS:+Top+Stories)
 
On GMA this morning I heard that Michael Jackson's fingerprints were NOT FOUND on any of the propofol vials.

IMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
There was a bottle of urine sitting on one of the chairs close to the bed, iirc.

That is why it never made sense that CM told LE he went to urinate and was going to pour the collected urine in the bottle away because the bottle still had urine in it when MJ died. It wasn't thrown away.

IMO
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Has that been testified about? Cause I missed the jar of urine on the chair. Must be where Ms Grace got the surrounded by his own urine tag line. I assumed the urine had been collected in some makeshift container that was left behind during transport. If Murray had no actual equipment for monitoring the flow of the iv or the heart rthyum, or intubation equipment, it would not make sence for him to have an actual catheter collection bag.
 
Thundar said:
Has that been testified about? Cause I missed the jar of urine on the chair. Must be where Ms Grace got the surrounded by his own urine tag line. I assumed the urine had been collected in some makeshift container that was left behind during transport. If Murray had no actual equipment for monitoring the flow of the iv or the heart rthyum, or intubation equipment, it would not make sence for him to have an actual catheter collection bag.
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When I have some time, I'm going to go back and relisten to some of the EMS and Alvarez testimony. I recall someone testifying that the condom catheter was attached to a bag that did have urine in it.
 
Talina said:
When I have some time, I'm going to go back and relisten to some of the EMS and Alvarez testimony. I recall someone testifying that the condom catheter was attached to a bag that did have urine in it.
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Thank you. I wish there was some place online to read transcripts of the testimony instead of having to listen to them all again. I'm better at reading through, it's easier to read again than to rewind and listen again.
 
Thundar said:
Has that been testified about? Cause I missed the jar of urine on the chair. Must be where Ms Grace got the surrounded by his own urine tag line. I assumed the urine had been collected in some makeshift container that was left behind during transport. If Murray had no actual equipment for monitoring the flow of the iv or the heart rthyum, or intubation equipment, it would not make sence for him to have an actual catheter collection bag.
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Not yet that I can remember, Thunder. It may have been in the PH but I cant remember now. Too many trials to keep up with and they all seem to blur at times especially the ones that don't come to trial for years. lol

But I do absolutely remember that it (bottle) was found on a chair close to the bed in that same bedroom. Maybe it was in the SWs?


IMO
 
Talina said:
When I have some time, I'm going to go back and relisten to some of the EMS and Alvarez testimony. I recall someone testifying that the condom catheter was attached to a bag that did have urine in it.
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Yes, the ER doctor testified that when he arrived the catheter was still attached but no urine was inside of the bag.

I think Murray had bleed it off into the container but never dispensed of the urine in the container.

IMO
 
What is it?
How To Care For Your Condom Catheter Care Guide
How To Care For Your Condom Catheter
En Espanol
A condom catheter is a way to drain your bladder without putting a catheter (rubber tube) into your urethra (u-REE-thruh). Your urethra is the tube that runs from the outside of your body into your bladder. Your bladder is where urine is stored in your body.

A condom catheter is a rubber sheath that is put over your penis. A condom catheter allows you to empty your bladder without using a urinal, bedpan, or toilet. Your condom catheter is hooked to a plastic tube which leads to a bag. The urine stays in the bag until it is emptied into the toilet.

http://www.drugs.com/cg/how-to-care-for-your-condom-catheter.html
 
oceanblueeyes said:
Not yet that I can remember, Thunder. It may have been in the PH but I cant remember now. Too many trials to keep up with and they all seem to blur at times especially the ones that don't come to trial for years. lol

But I do absolutely remember that it (bottle) was found on a chair close to the bed in that same bedroom. Maybe it was in the SWs?


IMO
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So far, I've quickly found this reported as being testified to in the PH.


http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/entertainment/2011-01/14/content_11868189.htm

Elissa Fleak, a coroner investigator, said she found a jug of urine on a chair when she combed through Jackson's room.
 
Back to work for an hr so I'm done when the trial starts. See you all in a little while.
 
This Youtube subscriber has very kindly uploaded all of the trial video so far and hopefully they will continue so that we can recap if necessary, or watch parts that we've missed.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=289XESy2WEE"]Conrad Murray Trial - Day 5, part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
 
Was the bag still connected to the urine catheter once in ER? I ask b/c it is interesting to note that there was no urine in it? Does the body not expel the urine upon death and the relaxation of the muscles? If so, that means that Dr. Murray had already gotten rid of any urine from that evening. It may have been the urine in the jar, IDK, but if there was none and if the bag was dry, then that was a new bag and the doc may have dumped it to avoid propofol detection?
 
21merc7 said:
Was the bag still connected to the urine catheter once in ER? I ask b/c it is interesting to note that there was no urine in it? Does the body not expel the urine upon death and the relaxation of the muscles? If so, that means that Dr. Murray had already gotten rid of any urine from that evening. It may have been the urine in the jar, IDK, but if there was none and if the bag was dry, then that was a new bag and the doc may have dumped it to avoid propofol detection?
Click to expand...

From what I've been able to gather this morning is that there was a bottle urine found by the coroner investigator. This bottle had urine in it and it was in MJ's bedroom. It didn't sound like, from yesterday's testimony, that there was anything connected to the urine catheter in the ER and there was no urine in the condom part. So, sounds to me like he had already expelled any urine his bladder had long before he went to the ER.

I did look it up on several websites and some say you always empty bladder and bowels upon death due to muscle relaxation and a few others went further to say, yes the muscles relax and you will expel from both bladder and bowels if they are full. So I suppose it all depends on the person's condition at the time of death.
 
Thundar said:
As far as I remember no one has mentioned any urine collection bag or bottle or jug except Ms Grace loudly on her show. The urine could have been collected in a used pickle jar that was emptied into the toilet in the mornings. But I don't recall anyone specifically saying anything about it. It sounded like the only part that anyone saw was the condom catheter itself and a piece of tubing attached, no urine bag or receptacle. There was no urine passed from the patient at the hospital.
Click to expand...

I would bet that there was a bag attached to the catheter and it was emptied and/or detached from the catheter prior to them transporting him to the hospital. If he had been dead for some time by the time Dr. Murray found him unresponsive, then his bladder would have already emptied. Paramedics might not have thought to save any urine, and I am guessing that Dr. Murray would be smart enough to know that the urine would probably be tested, thus he got rid of the evidence. JMO
I have a very strong feeling that Michael was dead for a considerable time before Dr. Murray started alerting the staff. That's also MOO.
 
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