FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #11

shelly111 said:

While thr theory Jennifer was abducted when walking to her car or near her car is what many makes people think had happened but other theories can't be exluded.
Jennifer felt uncomfortable around the illegal workers and she wouldn't let her guard down.Also illegal Mexicans are very common in fl ,they are working all over the state in construction ,landscaping and I never heard about one case of illegals workers kidnapped a person.
It is more likely someone that Jennifer knew, although not very well ,but Jennifer saw him at the mosaic .He could have been a painter,an electrician or an office worker.
Jennifer drove away and when she passed the security gate, she was stopped by someone she knew
and Jennifer agreed to give this person a ride.
Maybe she was stopped by someone on her way to work or she
stopped somewhere and could have been kidnapped in this place. Another scenario,Jennifer made it to work and someone was waiting there. A coworker
and Jennifer felt comfortable at her place of work and let her guard down.
There are so many different scenarios.
No One knows for sure what really happened.

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marable said:

The car being moved has always bothered me.....Why was it necessary to move Jennifer's car unless the suspect wanted it to appear that she had gone to work that morning?

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JnRyan said:

Since we have the podcast now there are still a few things I’d like to revisit or clear up.
- Did Jennifer have an assigned parking spot or was it all open parking? (See next two points.)
- If there were assigned parking spots how did the workers know where they could park?
- Supposedly the workers (landscapers or condo renovators) did not see Jennifer’s car in her designated spot when they arrived. Is this true or rumor. Did she usually leave sometime after they arrived? (A beautiful lady would have been noticed and maybe the workers saw her every morning and made note of it.)
- Did she really have an alarm system? (Yeah, I know we’ve all kicked this around too - so much I don’t remember where it was said she had one. Since the podcast seems to be taking a fresh look so far….) Did she use it on a regular basis?
- On the alarm system I saw somewhere else that LE did not obtain the history on her condo’s alarm system. I wonder how true this is?
- Again on the alarm system. I don’t know where I read it, I remember reading somewhere that the condo had one but it also came with the condo. Was there a password for it when she bought it? Did she change it? (Again, the history would answer that point.)
- Following many abductions on here, I see where a good many occur on a Friday or weekend. (This would make sense for a planned abduction as it might mean 2-3 days before the person is missed.) This occurred on a Tuesday. Had anyone noticed a stranger around the condo’s on Friday or Saturday – someone who might have not known she was out of town with the boyfriend?
- This occurs the first morning Jennifer leaves for work from her condo after being out of town. Who had Jennifer told about her trip? Others in the condo? Did she tell the manager and ask them to keep an eye on her condo?
A few things about this seems to indicate a really bold person. They abduct her in the morning when many are starting to go to work. What if some of the workers showed up early? If the workers saw her car in her spot when they usually arrived that would mean there are usually potential witnesses. Did she leave earlier than usual that day?
I often wonder about parking the car at HOTG. A convenient place where the abductor could walk back to the condo? If that is the case, why not the Mall at Millenia? It is a much larger lot and only a half mile away. (Of course, if there were signs stating the lot was under video surveillance that would lead the abductor to park elsewhere.) In any event they didn’t scout the place out very well since they missed the video surveillance. (I wonder if HOTG had video surveillance signs. If so, this was a VERY bold person!)

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rd_jfc said:

Anything that talks about this occurring Tuesday morning is an incorrect basis. There is quite literally nothing that indicates it occurred Tuesday morning rather than late Monday evening between 10:00 pm and 10:40 pm other than a belief from Jennifer's family that the shower was damp enough to have been used Tuesday morning. For that matter there is no indication who used it last as Jennifer was abducted with all her personal items.

IIRC the landscapers I saw Drew quoted about in a post were on an adjoining property. However I don't know what all workers Jennifer's complex had scheduled to work Tuesday morning. I've read a lot on this through the years but solid details like that (or anything about the cameras used) rarely mentioned.

Her brother and his friends were staying at her condo all weekend.

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JnRyan said:

I agree that there is no concrete, indisputable proof that it occurred Tuesday AM. But the only thing we have is the Kesses' own observation. Had LE processed the condo that might have clarified the timeline somewhat. That omission by LE has left a hole in this case. I personally doubt the condo is a crime scene but processing it might still have helped.

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JnRyan said:

Since we have the podcast now there are still a few things I’d like to revisit or clear up.

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JnRyan said:

- Did Jennifer have an assigned parking spot or was it all open parking? (See next two points.)

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JnRyan said:

- If there were assigned parking spots how did the workers know where they could park?

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JnRyan said:

- Supposedly the workers (landscapers or condo renovators) did not see Jennifer’s car in her designated spot when they arrived. Is this true or rumor.

Click to expand...

JnRyan said:

Did she usually leave sometime after they arrived? (A beautiful lady would have been noticed and maybe the workers saw her every morning and made note of it.)

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JnRyan said:

- Did she really have an alarm system? (Yeah, I know we’ve all kicked this around too - so much I don’t remember where it was said she had one. Since the podcast seems to be taking a fresh look so far….) Did she use it on a regular basis?
- On the alarm system I saw somewhere else that LE did not obtain the history on her condo’s alarm system. I wonder how true this is?
- Again on the alarm system. I don’t know where I read it, I remember reading somewhere that the condo had one but it also came with the condo. Was there a password for it when she bought it? Did she change it? (Again, the history would answer that point.)

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JnRyan said:

- Following many abductions on here, I see where a good many occur on a Friday or weekend. (This would make sense for a planned abduction as it might mean 2-3 days before the person is missed.) This occurred on a Tuesday. Had anyone noticed a stranger around the condo’s on Friday or Saturday – someone who might have not known she was out of town with the boyfriend?
- This occurs the first morning Jennifer leaves for work from her condo after being out of town. Who had Jennifer told about her trip? Others in the condo? Did she tell the manager and ask them to keep an eye on her condo?

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JnRyan said:

A few things about this seems to indicate a really bold person. They abduct her in the morning when many are starting to go to work. What if some of the workers showed up early? If the workers saw her car in her spot when they usually arrived that would mean there are usually potential witnesses. Did she leave earlier than usual that day?

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JnRyan said:

I often wonder about parking the car at HOTG. A convenient place where the abductor could walk back to the condo? If that is the case, why not the Mall at Millenia? It is a much larger lot and only a half mile away. (Of course, if there were signs stating the lot was under video surveillance that would lead the abductor to park elsewhere.) In any event they didn’t scout the place out very well since they missed the video surveillance. (I wonder if HOTG had video surveillance signs. If so, this was a VERY bold person!)

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rd_jfc said:

I would go further than no indisputable proof to that there is no indication whatsoever. Her cell phone and her brother's friend's cell phone both going dead at 10:40 pm Monday night is about all anyone needs to know. That we only find out about this from Jennifer's dad 8 years later is something that is typical of the way Orlando Police has handled this case.

It's their right to not say anything and even mislead the public, and it may work out someday such as in Tara Grinstead's case. But they can't get any help from the public that way.

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Truth Prevails said:

BBM-So let's assume that at least Mr. Kesse knows this--but he is still going with a morning abduction. He still believe in the four hour window from 8 AM to 12 Noon. Why?

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scadagirl28 said:

Thank you!Past that is that something he is holding under his arm?

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rd_jfc said:

I don't know when he was told about the phones going dead, but my thought is he is repeating the Orlando Police line from 2006. Some people say the Orlando Police line is based on the parents belief which again was before they were told about the phones going dead. The Orlando Police do not even want this case, they said they gave it to the FBI and as far as I know won;t comment on it further. At least I haven't seen any posts on it. I used to follow searches on news on the case for the first few years so they might have said something besides not our case.

Bottom line, there's no one that has any incentive to change what the police said back then, that she was abducted going out to her car that morning, even though they originally felt she went out previous night. Parents were so set against that and investigators so non-investigative that you more or less end up with least resistance statements.

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rd_jfc said:

Now for that matter theoretically she ould have let someone in between 10:00 pm and 10:40 pm and not gone out. The attributes of someone she knew, having behavior of an experienced abductor in disabling multiple phones, taking her and all that stuff from her condo in her car, planning enough not to have parked their car in Jennifer's parking lot, just a really planned professional abduction from an acquaintance is not likely to say the least.

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rd_jfc said:

But if one wants to insist she wouldn't leave they still have to deal with the fact that she was disabled along with phones by 10:40 pm. The morning stuff is just wishful thinking.

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scadagirl28 said:

Thank you rd for taking the time to do that ! I really appreciate it ! Obviously , I was thinking it was possible he was carrying multiple items .

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rd_jfc said:

That's an excellent take on it and thanks for the feedback. Note that while there are serious vertical and horizontal streaks they do not form anything themselves. They do distract from what's in the image. Manufactured from the feed is another way of saying that interference or streaks if you will form the illusion of tactical gear. Certainly I dealt with this in a number of ways.

I looked at the same area in image 1 and 2 and looked for anything out of place in the other image. I found nothing suggestive of anything anywhere in the same spot in the other image (for example, near gate latch in image 1), or for that matter, anything suggestive if any non-law enforcement anywhere in the three images.

If these are random artifacts, note that the artifacts are that of law enforcement in expected positions on the body. Note that there are no random artifacts of anything anywhere else in the three images. At what point can one say that law enforcement artifacts at expected places in the images aren't random visual artifacts? This isn't even blurry. If anything, it is exceedingly sharp. I am amazed at the detail of the bevelled connector between holster and belt when I first looked at it on a 19" CRT monitor. I was stunned.

Now I have focused on the holster because it is so clear, with the belt webbing, thigh straps, etc. But there is some connector type equipment hanging over his back, possibly supporting the circular object behind him at same level of holster. The bike helmet has a stunning precsion in its outline, blown up on a big screen tv it is perfect.

There are many problems due to the slow lapse of the camera and a moving object, and clearly to me the image is contorted as it goes out from center (large shoes, car in background, etc.) but there is an image in the shape of law enforcement shoulder patch hovering where his shoulder is, there is a badge in image 3 in shape of police / DoD badge, there is his face in image 3 which looks like wearing strapped helmet.

The circle around his neck believe it or not is in all 3 images! It looks very much the same in images 1 and 2, and there is a distinct circle around his neck in image 3. People can say what they want about shadows and manufactured feeds, but this is a moving person that has a distinct bruisey type circle around his neck, not sharp like the thigh straps but somewhat firm in makeup. We may not know for sure what it is, but random manufactured visual artifacts do not have that firmness and consistency across multiple images.

I understand the size and position of the shoulder patch is not proportional, and I wouldn't ask anyone to believe that this POI was dressed as law enforcement on that alone, but it's a swinging arm in a time lapse lens distorted image, and not something that's static and clear. But it's yet another law enforcement artifact in images full of them. And not a non-law enforcement artifact to be found.

What is interesting is that there is no reason to think this is anything but someone dressed as law enforcement. There is no reason to believe that this is the actual murderer, this could be someone who moved the car for any number of reasons. The Orlando Police believed this to be a short gang banger type, i.e. Latino, for among other reasons believing that this person is striding in a fashion of arm held back and straight down, a distinctive minority gangster trait. Yet that straight down arm is an illusion. There is no hand at the end, it is a perfectly cylindrical object, and starts at belt level.

If you want imaginary artifacts, there's one for you. But unfortunately it was the Orlando Police seeing imaginary things. And the public has been misserved in the Jennifer Kesse case.

rd

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Truth Prevails said:

BBM - And I'm not sure if a "meeting of the minds" all these years later is yet possible--even for justice for Jenn. Plus, did investigators really drop the ball and not gather even the most obvious of evidence; or, do they have it gathering dust in a file somewhere. I hope it is the later.

I agree with this, but will add that considering all as above, it would also likely rule out abduction by a worker in her condo. If this were to be the case, I think the person would have gone on to do this again and again. (Think of the Ted Bundys hiding amongst us.) Surely a recognizable M.O. would have developed. I suppose this could be the case and LE are still sitting on it, but I personally really doubt it.

Here the sex trade abduction theory would enter, I guess. I can't make myself accept it, though. Jenn was just a kid, really--but sex trade victims are usually quite a bit younger. I know there are exceptions, but I'm really far from accepting this as a theory.

Exactly. The only way I can fit the phones event in the evening with the shower event in the AM, is to open my mind to the fact that somehow someone got into her condo after she talked to Rob on the 23rd. That someone had many hours to spend there--I can't think too deep about this theory. The hours he had to do whatever bothers me.

However, what makes the above ridiculous is that he would have had to encourage her (or force her) to shower and get very nicely prepared for work. I'm not sure, here. Maybe he could have taunted her with the fact that he was going to let her go. But then, did not.

An additional thought here: what about her landline phone? I wonder if there is any chance it was disabled in some way. If he was inside her apartment and had everything else disabled, I would suspect he would not have overlooked the landline.

But here we are all these years later--with two strong theories and each of the vying sides supporting their own.

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Rust Cohle said:

I did notice the ring around the neck is consistent through the 3 pics, it's interesting. What do you think the cylinder object is, I actually don't see it? I found mirroring the picture can actually help..

Let's say this is a LEO, do you really think he would wear his bike helmet and full uniform? In my opinion, if a POI wants to be forgettable he doesn't wear a bike helmet while exiting a car, or wear his police uniform in a less than desirable complex, people remember those things. People remember naked, police and costumes... But if the POI is impersonating LEO, that would indicate planning which contradicts parking Jen's car in mid day light while her family is already aware of her disappearance and descending upon her condo.

The only reason I have doubts about LEO is because I have had a significant amount of experience with surveillance, and things I thought I saw ended up not being even close to what it actually was. Possible the POI is wearing a Polo brand shirt which have been known to have multiple crests on them in the very same places LEO would have their crest?

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Truth Prevails said:

BBM-So let's assume that at least Mr. Kesse knows this--but he is still going with a morning abduction. He still believe in the four hour window from 8 AM to 12 Noon. Why?

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rd_jfc said:

Some interesting observations, thanks. Mirrowing is something I haven't tried, I will keep that in mind. The cylindar object is the least clear, did you see what looks like a clenched hand? We're talking image 1 here. I just took a look at my Blowups page and I'm surprised how prominent the hand artifact is in the first blowup, image 1, image 2, and then a blowup of image 1. It took me forever to find these things examining pixel by pixel, most of my spare time in 2007. Now I take a look and although not enough detail to identify as hand and fingers clearly (another blowup further down does better), but for an overall blowup it's clearly visible in the space between the left posts.

The object I was referring to extends from his fingers at a slightly downward tilt, behind a fencepost, and then on past the post a bit. Further down the page I have a pic of a hand holding an X-26. Right above that pic you can see what looks to me like a clenched hand and from it what appears to me to be an object that's not part of the shirt patterns. It isn't a make or break thing if it isn't a hand. It doesn't indicate law enforcement one way or the other, but I did think it might be a hand holding whatever the holster carries.

The law enforcement insignia was of two types. Right there in image 1 right where the hand and object ends is a floating enlarged law enforcement type shoulder patch. In image 3 I have isolated a police / DoD shaped badge. Look at the armed bike security guard on my Blowups page, an ad from a Ft. Lauderdale area security company that I found several weeks after I had written about everything I found in the images, and this bike patrolman's uniform is pretty much identical to what I described. Of interest here, look at his left chest / shoulder and see the badge and patch. Very similar.

Now you ask an interesting question, would the POI wear something that sticks out like a armed officer. And there's real LEO to consider, and an impersonator. I would say I don't think this uniform matches any actual law enforcement in Orlando. And while I know it matches at least one security company that advertised statewide as I picture, there's no indication any Orlando properties had security equipped like this. I tend to think this is an impersonator.

I would think that dressed and equipped like this is camoflauge. While noticeable, it also would throw investigators off. "I saw a heavily equipped security guard park the car and walk away." That's pretty much all you'd have. No matter where they looked, they'd be looking in the wrong place.

Now what about the logistics of parking the car even as Jennifer's family had arrived at the condo. He needs to get rid of it before police are looking for it, and he needs to park it where he can get back home. I don't think it's an accident that he parked her car precisely at noon. This is a planned jettison after finishing with abduction in my opinion.

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