Alternate Theories

missy1974 · Feb 9, 2016

Mystic ~ yep.... I remember you posting about the timeline before I even questioned it LOL

Dr. Phail · Feb 9, 2016

"Bowl" yes Missy...thus is the middle referred to as "The Pit". It has been suggested that the ridge upon which the RAV was placed would be among the highest if not THE highest available point that...when combined with it being pretty much right in EYE-LINE when entering Avery Salvage property from Avery Road....

...would make it like the best & most obvious choice were one going for a "presentation" type placement or The RAV....

...if so....now we risk getting into a "Psychology" here....on the part of whomever put that RAV there...

Obvious question being: More likely that SA placed that RAV upon that Pedestal like a SHOWpiece after his impossible cleanup yet making sure there was a bit of his blood in the RAV??? or...

....does it seem more probable that someone other than SA placed that RAV so mindfully upon that slight Hill and in the direct line of Vision from entrance to the property lol like....putting that RAV there like:

Whoomp. "There it is." Like....IN YOUR FACE AVERY.

"Got You Buddy.......and I don't even have to be "sneaky" about it fool. You've messed with us for the last time boy."

To me missy.....the placement of the RAV is Key. Strikes me as similar to how in crimes of passion you see Overkill. RAV's placement to me translates to: "I (we) so totally own your Fate & You that we don't even have to be careful within this Frame-Up...so not only am I gonna Frame You but I am gonna put that Frame Up right in your FACE".

Overkill. In essence missy. Strikes me as an obvious sign of a "Crime of Passion". They did not just want to PUT that RAV there, wasn't enough to just get it successfully planted on the property....their ego demanded more....they had to STAGE that RAV in a spot that would be most Impactful, communicate their messsage of rage.....that Avery would be so stupid to even think to mess with them....$36 Million & the destruction of their careers and reputations lol.

"...so much for that Steve."

RAV positioned how it was states all that clearly.

Curious that there has been very little mention/discussion of the RAV being, like, upon that little "Throne" there though, straight-up eyeline when entering Avery's....might be The Framers "proudest Moment" lol but darn if no one's talking about it

isn't this how it always goes lol.

missy1974 · Feb 9, 2016

Now thinking about it.... and because I was reading some testimony that I hadn't read yet today. Manitowoc county officers, and a few Calumet... and Fassbender, they were there that afternoon kept insisting that they could indeed see that RAV4 from down by the crusher when they were down there. It was repeated many times during testimony... because well ya know.... no one went near it, they were sure cuz they could see it. I'm thinking about it and... if CA/SA/EA were down by the crusher, doing what they do... crushing cars... it's almost harder to believe they wouldn't notice it if it was as within eyesight like LE said, if it was parked there on the 31st. IMO they knew that property like the backs of their hands.... they lived there, they worked there, it was their life.

From posts I have seen about Pam Sturm and not questioning why she went to that corner (the one's that don't believe that God showed her the way), I think it might have been Nocturnal that said they would have gone to that corner first too... so interesting that it was a "focal point" or drew someone's attention that easily.... that was also the place someone "hid" the RAV4.

I still don't have a solid theory of who could have done it... there are so many options (if it's not SA).

Justiceseeker35 · Feb 9, 2016

dexter75 said:
He is one person who had possible motive, the opportunity, and the means to access both her computer and voice mail, and plenty of time and means to dispose of the remains in the state they were found. He could have planted the car, the plates, the bones and returned home under the cover of darkness within 3 hours. And he would have been smart enough to disconnect the battery cable to wipe out the OBD2, in case that year vehicle stored incriminating information.

With any police investigation of this nature he would have been the FIRST person interviewed and excluded before fanning out. But with this case, once the vehicle is found on the Avery property, NOBODY looked back.

Another thing i find really odd is that he is the only one that was close to her, if not the closest, that was NOT called to testify, although he would be able to provide more valuable information about her last known whereabouts, when her vehicle was last seen, where she keeps her spare keys, WHO made the unwanted calls, who the guy was she supposedly met in Green Bay Saturday night, what she was wearing the day she went missing, etc, IMO just for starters.

But most perplexing, he stated that in the nine months they had lived together, she has never been gone overnight before. He noticed her vehicle missing Tuesday morning, but at NO time does he report her missing, or at the very least ask her parents if they had heard from her?

I believe there is a very good reason why the prosecution did not have him testify.

Farm incinerator? They did live on her parents dairy farm..

Were the BONES burned there???

Either way, shouldn't HE be interrogated for a few hours from another STATE Department? Or at LEAST interviewed??
Thoughts?

I def think it's possible Ryan or Scott killed her and one is covering for the other.

A couple of scenarios from Other groups;

Ryan's scratches on hands??

Ryan could have killed her, told Scott what he had done and Scott helped cover it up, which is why he didn't report her missing right away?

Another thing I find odd is that somebody called the media that same evening she was reported missing ( I think ) and told them that Teresa was last seen with Steve Avery. ( Or is this the Auto trader girl writing Avery's name down? Or did BOTH happen? )

The very next morning, Mike, Ryan and Scott organized a search for her near the Avery property.

This forced the police, media and public to focus all their attention directly at the Avery property and nowhere else.

I think the cops found all the evidence in the quarry possibly and they were the ones who took them and put them closer to averys...otherwise if they didnt plant them why wouldnt they just let all the right people take the case over as they would in any homicide...they didnt want to have the area mapped out and recorded...that also explains the different locations of the bones....the cops found them in the quarry and didnt think it would be good enough to pin avery so they took it upon themselves to put things on his property and in his house....

I think they put her in boot of car and put it at quarry as they knew she was at SA house that day.
Colburn finds the car calls in plate, him lenk and Herman decide to burn her body in Hermans smelter. First decide to put bones back at quarry, then realise it would be better at burn pit as they find out about the supposed fire, SO move them during their 8 day search leaving some behind by mistake as they had to do it at night.

Again,
Why would he not report her missing? She has never been away overnight before. He hadn't seen her in 3 nights and 4 days. Made no attempt to call her, or ask her parents if they knew where she was. Makes no sense.

I know many look at the above and think WOW, too much thought going into this planning.

So many that think SA is guilty are " following the evidence "

I can't do that. Not when we 100% do not know SA was the last to see her, or talk to her, or if her murder happened there or not.

Missing phone records, No crime scene photos, NO one else even INTERVIEWED at length, corrupt department, corrupt LAB, Corrupt Emails from Lawyer to prosecution CLEARLY setting up Brendan, IMO..for WHAT??

What would be the MOTIVE to set up Brendan??
For those who READ the Kachinsky emails and got REALLY pissed!!
WHY would LE and the LAWYERS and the PROSECUTION work TOGETHER to SET UP BRENDAN? For shiggles? Or to take SA's ALIBI and CRUSH it??

So I'm thinking Martinez or RH are the most viable suspects.
I've started rewatching the documentary again. I know I know.... crazy right. But I'm thinking I'll see something I missed before. The first time around I'm basically watching this thing shaking my head and saying no way the whole time. But today I watched episode 3 again and notice something so crazy. I always thought that why and how in the world did they get this supposed accomplice BD to "confess" nearly 4 months after the murder. So SA had a crappy court appointed Defense Attorney the guy was looking like he'd want to be defending anyone else in the world. SA figures he's got no shot so he takes this settlement for 400K to actually get a defense going. He hires himself the best and this is on Feb 16th 2006. According to the documentary right off the bat they are going to hit this planting evidence scenario and I believe that's when MCSO went oh crap he might prove himself not guilty. So on Feb 20th MW interviews the family again talking to all involved. They know that BD is an alibi for SA. On Feb 27th 06 literally a week in a half after he hires a good defense team they get BD to confess to not only being a witness to murder but an accomplice. Boom instantly they have a scenario of how she died to tell to the public, at press conferences, a narrative that the jury can hear and maybe an accomplice to testify on the stand. It all feels like a huge chess game... doesn't it. Jury's love narratives don't they? They really want things spelled out and they hate being told it's a homicide but we don't know how she died.

missy1974 · Feb 9, 2016

I'm so glad that you tied that together for me Justiceseeker, I have always kinda felt like they went after BD because he was SA's alibi, but still couldn't find a "reason" for it. Your point makes total sense to me now.

I think it might have been a bit of a pissing war for Kratz too, he has shown in the last few months that he's a media pig, and he knew what this case would mean for his career... winning or losing.

As for watching the documentary again... I just don't know if I can do it LOL

Dr. Phail · Feb 9, 2016

missy1974 said:
Now thinking about it.... and because I was reading some testimony that I hadn't read yet today. Manitowoc county officers, and a few Calumet... and Fassbender, they were there that afternoon kept insisting that they could indeed see that RAV4 from down by the crusher when they were down there. It was repeated many times during testimony... because well ya know.... no one went near it, they were sure cuz they could see it. I'm thinking about it and... if CA/SA/EA were down by the crusher, doing what they do... crushing cars... it's almost harder to believe they wouldn't notice it if it was as within eyesight like LE said, if it was parked there on the 31st. IMO they knew that property like the backs of their hands.... they lived there, they worked there, it was their life.

From posts I have seen about Pam Sturm and not questioning why she went to that corner (the one's that don't believe that God showed her the way), I think it might have been Nocturnal that said they would have gone to that corner first too... so interesting that it was a "focal point" or drew someone's attention that easily.... that was also the place someone "hid" the RAV4.

I still don't have a solid theory of who could have done it... there are so many options (if it's not SA).

VERY well stated yes...missy...could not have put it better myself and I thank you sincerely for saving me some typing...

...as this is why I bring up the very interesting positioning of The RAV as well....

...past just the "statement" that this very obviously makes, when they could have parked the darn thing anywhere just to get it ON the property...would have sufficed...

Earl was the Primary "Gopher" (Go-For), he'd be the one who went out and hunted a part mainly and he knew that Yard like the back of his hand...

....and he says The RAV was not there....on which day(s) in particular, I forget but day (or days) between Oct 31 and it's discovery as result of God leading Pam Sturm to it on the 5th.

Very Visible spot indeed this choice of place to park the RAV....very interesting choice of parking spot for it indeed.

Ego.....leads to mistakes. Mistakes lead to misdeeds getting exposed.

Dr. Phail · Feb 9, 2016

Very good observation JusticeSeeker re: BD's "confessions" keep in mind also that these pave the path to the addition, like "clockwork" of added (newly discovered lol) "evidence" Bullet & Hood Latch DNA which...

Hood Latch DNA lol, the fact that "Sweat DNA" does not exist aside Kratz got another chance to say "Sweat" but mainly if you or I, missy or anyone here is working at the DCI Crime Lab and we get the RAV with it's battery disconnected we check for DNA around the Hood Latch sometime PRIOR to 5+ months after we get the RAV...

....but they did not. Find that Hood Latch DNA until April 2006.....I believe....bullet found in....March?

Point being re: your mention of BD's "confessions"....not only did they hold the value you mention for the prosecution but they enabled a pathway to hammering these other nails into SA'a coffin.

Let us not forget that...

"Now we knew where to look....for additional evidence"

Because it didn't occur to us to search the Garage (even though we had) and that RAV?

"My Gosh Guys....maybe we should check around that Hood Latch?"

...."someone call DCI Cime Lab.....thats not a bad idea...."

LifeCitizen · Feb 12, 2016

Here are some pics of scratches and bruising on RH's hand. Not saying that = murder but along with other stuff that came out about him, it maybe doesn't look good.

missy1974 · Feb 16, 2016

Thinking about Zellner's latest tweet.... and some of her recent comments. I can't help but think she is pointing at RH.

Does anyone know when TH and RH stopped dating? Mystic??? I'm thinking you might know this answer LOL

ETA: Zellner's latest tweet
Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 18h18 hours ago
Police reports: Others lie but cops turn a blind eye. "The killer (devil) is in the detail" #Eyeswideshut
#MakingAMurderer

LifeCitizen · Feb 16, 2016

Don't quote me but I thought TH and RH went out for 5 years, and had been broken up for 2. But I'm not sure where I read that.

MysticJynx · Feb 16, 2016

missy1974 said:
Thinking about Zellner's latest tweet.... and some of her recent comments. I can't help but think she is pointing at RH.

Does anyone know when TH and RH stopped dating? Mystic??? I'm thinking you might know this answer LOL

ETA: Zellner's latest tweet
Kathleen Zellner ‏@ZellnerLaw 18h18 hours ago
Police reports: Others lie but cops turn a blind eye. "The killer (devil) is in the detail" #Eyeswideshut
#MakingAMurderer

I am not 100% when they dated. They met as freshmen in high school. Its said they dated part of hs and college. She would have been in HS freshmen year 94/95 year. It has been heard they broke up about 2001. So they probably dated from 96 to 01. They were 21 in 2001. Wonder if that was part of the reason for breaking up. When they were finally able to drink legally. I was under the impression that after they broke up in 2001 they had been on and off. I can't be 100% sure tho. Something mike said in his testimony made me think they were on and off again. I'll have to find that testimony.

LifeCitizen · Feb 16, 2016

I read they were on and off. but again, I couldn't say where I read that.

LifeCitizen · Feb 16, 2016

The most suspicious thing about RH to me (amongst other things) is he and the flatmate didn't report TH missing for 3 days. Was she in the habit of spending the nights at friends places?
It sounds like RH was at her place a lot. Seems strange to me they didn't report her missing earlier.

Sustained · Feb 16, 2016

LifeCitizen said:
The most suspicious thing about RH to me (amongst other things) is he and the flatmate didn't report TH missing for 3 days. Was she in the habit of spending the nights at friends places?
It sounds like RH was at her place a lot. Seems strange to me they didn't report her missing earlier.

Not suspicious at all if they were involved somehow ...

MysticJynx · Feb 16, 2016

LifeCitizen said:
Here are some pics of scratches and bruising on RH's hand. Not saying that = murder but along with other stuff that came out about him, it maybe doesn't look good.

I did this picture should be somewhere in the thread. May I ask where you found it?

MysticJynx · Feb 16, 2016

LifeCitizen said:
The most suspicious thing about RH to me (amongst other things) is he and the flatmate didn't report TH missing for 3 days. Was she in the habit of spending the nights at friends places?
It sounds like RH was at her place a lot. Seems strange to me they didn't report her missing earlier.

Maybe she was independent, and maybe SB was dating someone that they were not always in the house at the same time. Sounded like he lived upstairs and she down and shared the kitchen and bathroom. I have roommates I don't always know when they are home or gone. And sometimes i dont see them for days before I run into them at the kitchen or washroom. I'm not their watchdog. Could it just be possible that he just wasn't paying attention. Did she park in the garage usually? maybe he wouldn't have seen her car often parked in the drive way. So he could not tell if her car had been there or not? I am not sure about SB but something tells me he was being used by RH. RH and him were Supposed Best buds back in 2005, Testified by RH. So maybe RH inserted himself as SB's best bud so he could use him to keep tabs on his obsession?

I don't know just thoughts.

missy1974 · Feb 16, 2016

LifeCitizen said:
The most suspicious thing about RH to me (amongst other things) is he and the flatmate didn't report TH missing for 3 days. Was she in the habit of spending the nights at friends places?
It sounds like RH was at her place a lot. Seems strange to me they didn't report her missing earlier.

I agree. And I think Scott said that he didn't remember her ever staying out like that before. They had been living together for 9 months.

missy1974 · Feb 16, 2016

MysticJynx said:
Maybe she was independent, and maybe SB was dating someone that they were not always in the house at the same time. Sounded like he lived upstairs and she down and shared the kitchen and bathroom. I have roommates I don't always know when they are home or gone. And sometimes i dont see them for days before I run into them at the kitchen or washroom. I'm not their watchdog. Could it just be possible that he just wasn't paying attention. Did she park in the garage usually? maybe he wouldn't have seen her car often parked in the drive way. So he could not tell if her car had been there or not? I am not sure about SB but something tells me he was being used by RH. RH and him were Supposed Best buds back in 2005, Testified by RH. So maybe RH inserted himself as SB's best bud so he could use him to keep tabs on his obsession?

I don't know just thoughts.

or maybe SB and RH were friends... and once SB was living the TH, it rekindled some old feelings. That's why I was wondering how long before that they broke up.

LifeCitizen · Feb 16, 2016

Mystic, it was on one of the threads over at Reddit. I dont post there but read there sometimes.

ETA- it was taken the day of the search that he organised.

ZOOL · Apr 3, 2016

Coldpizza said:
A Cold Case Expert Thinks 'Making A Murderer' May Be Tied To One Of The Most Prolific Serial Killers Ever
Ryan Harkness January 20, 2016

One of the most frustrating questions regarding the death of Teresa Halbach in Netflixs crime documentary Making A Murderer is If Steven Avery didnt kill her, who did? Weve heard a couple of theories offered up by internet sleuths and Steven Avery himself, but theres been nothing very conclusive partially because the police did such a terrible job of following leads once theyd decided Avery was the killer. But former police sergeant and FBI cold case task force worker John Cameron thinks he knows who did it.

According to Cameron, Edward Wayne Edwards was a serial killer that liked to set other people up for the crimes he committed and was obsessed with the media attention surrounding murder. Sometimes he would pick victims based on reports he read in newspapers. Other times his target would be the person being set up for murder, with the victim being almost inconsequential.

John Cameron's theory that Edward Wayne Edwards murdered Teresa Halbach is based upon such a convoluted foundation of nonsense that one must eventually wonder if expert cold case Cameron himself has become obsessed with murder and murderers. For example, Cameron attempts to connect Edwards to every unsolved, dubious murder from the Black Dahlia, to the Zodiac, to the murder of Martha Moxley, and to Jon Benet Ramsey! He has been quoted as claiming Edwards is/was responsible for over 500+ murders!!

But...to get to the point of this thread: Edwards could not possible be connected to the murder of Teresa Halbach unless Edwards was privy to the fact that Halbach would be venturing upon Avery Salvage Yard on October 31, 2005. Even Halbach did not know this fact until Auto Trader magazine contacted her in the early morning of October 31, and then their standard business forms were eventually finalized. In order for Edwards to initiate that drama, he would have needed to call the magazine at 8:17 a.m., pretending to be Steven Avery making a request for B. Janda.

Unfortunately for Cameron's theory, Steven Avery's 8:17 a.m. Cellcom records show that Steven Avery made that call, not Edwards.

It is this kind of unpalatable investigation that makes Cameron's theory on Halbach's murder -- as well as Edward Wayne Edwards' connection to everything else -- unworthy of further comment.

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