NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #8

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shadowraiths said:
Doubtful. He murdered and dismembered Jane Doe No. 6 in 2000. ( link ) Furthermore, a portion of her remains were also found in OP. ( link ) And that kill precedes Jessica's murder by three years. All things considered, and in light of recent revelations, I'm guessing this guy had already been doing his "thing" for quite some time... and well before Jane Doe No. 6. Why? Bc dismemberment isn't something someone knows how to do right out of the gate. It takes time and practice. And it takes mistakes... the one who got away... Since first kills tend to occur in the early to mid-twenties... primarily due to the fact that impulse control is not fully formed until mid-to-late twenties, this guy has to be, at least in his early to mid forties.
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dismemberment (or 'amputation') is something someone would know how to do right out of the gate if you went to med school and worked in an emergency room.
 
Good morning everyone.
Thanks to all who responded to my comments regarding OB.
This site continues to be so respectful and thoughtful. I have eally enjoyed hearing opinions, different that mine. You all always make me think!
I started to wonder how would my neighbors react if faced with a similiar situation. And frankly, I have no idea. But I did learn one thing from covering my town's police beat. We have no idea what really goes on behind closed doors. I live in a very affulent community. But after reading police blotters day in and day for years..on my street alone, the numerous DUIs, the attempted suicide, the mentally ill man who shot up the cable wires, the lady who passes out in her neighbors' yard, the girl hooked on major drugs.I doubt anyone other than me knows about this stuff, becuase it does not make it into the media. SOmetimes there is just real human suffering going on.
 
truthspider said:
dismemberment (or 'amputation') is something someone would know how to do right out of the gate if you went to med school and worked in an emergency room.
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You seem to be putting the horse before the cart... and yes, I know you're referring to Mr. Hyde.
 
I still say our SK does NOT dismember. Nor do I believe he would have any motivation what so ever to kill a child. I just can not back down on my psychological profile of this guy, because every instinct I have tells me that profile is spot on.

My guess is that the Manorville bodies are connected to a gang. Very close to where these bodies were found, we also have dead pitbulls and dead chickens dumped. I don't think that's a coincidence. Prostitution, pit bull fighting, and chicken fighting are all gang related money making ventures. That parts of a Manorville victims (and possibly other Manorville victims) ended up on Oak Beach doesn't seem that odd to me. If you dismember a body in an attempt to avoid identification of that body, it makes sense to use different dumping grounds for body parts. You certainly wouldn't go to the trouble to dismember and then dump all the parts in one place. Also noteworthy, is that pimps often "tag" their girls with tattoo's. JT's tattoo included the name "Remy", and a great deal of effort was put into eradicating the name on this tattoo. I don't think that was done to hide the identification of JT, but rather done to hide any connection to "Remy". JMO

What we see in the murders of MB, MBB, MW and ALC is something quite different. We see a very patient SK who hunts for all these women in the same hunting ground...Craigslist. He picks them out, gets close to them for a period of time in order to gain their trust, and then kills them. He has a relationship of sorts with these women, but that relationship, by nature of the business, is very tenuous. In other words, because of the illegalities of the business, there's not much to connect him to his victims. Throw away phones, fake names, neutral meeting grounds...nothing substantial to link him to the women he kills. So he doesn't NEED to hide their identities once he's killed them. Furthermore, I don't think any of us fail to see the sexual nature of the killings of MB, MBB, MW and ALC. Their killer isn't seeking revenge...not trying to get rid of a troublesome "employee". He kills these women for the sexual rush he gets from having supreme power over them. I don't think that's the case AT ALL with the Manorville bodies. The Manorville bodies, are, imo...the same as the pitbulls and chickens...business liabilities.

MOO
 
truthspider said:
I'm confused. Do you mean the cart before the horse? and if so, how so?

thanks in advance for your explanation
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I read that a few times and never even caught that SW had it backwards. I need to make us all some coffee this morning, huh? :floorlaugh:
 
truthspider said:
I'm confused. Do you mean the cart before the horse? and if so, how so?
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Oops! Caffienne hasn't set in yet! lol

Imho, confirmation bias seems to be running rampant where Mr. Hyde is concerned. By confirmation bias, I mean, people discarding anything that rules the guy out, and embracing things, that rules him in.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
I still say our SK does NOT dismember. Nor do I believe he would have any motivation what so ever to kill a child. I just can not back down on my psychological profile of this guy, because every instinct I have tells me that profile is spot on.

My guess is that the Manorville bodies are connected to a gang. Very close to where these bodies were found, we also have dead pitbulls and dead chickens dumped. I don't think that's a coincidence. Prostitution, pit bull fighting, and chicken fighting are all gang related money making ventures. That parts of a Manorville victims (and possibly other Manorville victims) ended up on Oak Beach doesn't seem that odd to me. If you dismember a body in an attempt to avoid identification of that body, it makes sense to use different dumping grounds for body parts. You certainly wouldn't go to the trouble to dismember and then dump all the parts in one place. Also noteworthy, is that pimps often "tag" their girls with tattoo's. JT's tattoo included the name "Remy", and a great deal of effort was put into eradicating the name on this tattoo. I don't think that was done to hide the identification of JT, but rather done to hide any connection to "Remy". JMO

What we see in the murders of MB, MBB, MW and ALC is something quite different. We see a very patient SK who hunts for all these women in the same hunting ground...Craigslist. He picks them out, gets close to them for a period of time in order to gain their trust, and then kills them. He has a relationship of sorts with these women, but that relationship, by nature of the business, is very tenuous. In other words, because of the illegalities of the business, there's not much to connect him to his victims. Throw away phones, fake names, neutral meeting grounds...nothing substantial to link him to the women he kills. So he doesn't NEED to hide their identities once he's killed them. Furthermore, I don't think any of us fail to see the sexual nature of the killings of MB, MBB, MW and ALC. Their killer isn't seeking revenge...not trying to get rid of a troublesome "employee". He kills these women for the sexual rush he gets from having supreme power over them. I don't think that's the case AT ALL with the Manorville bodies. The Manorville bodies, are, imo...the same as the pitbulls and chickens...business liabilities.

MOO
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playing devil's advocate...

just gonna question the gang notion on manorville for a minute here...
To my knowledge there are/were 2 gangs that have ever been involved in NY that have (at one time) been known for dismemberment: MS 13, and the jamaican shower posse (during the 1980's only). If a gang was responsible for the murder and dismemberment of JT, would the gang then continue to use the same area to dump dogs and chickens after they knew the body had been immediately found in that area? gangs have structure and leadership, the higher ups who call the shots (theoretically anyway) should be smart enough/evasive enough not to use a location now known to the police to dump chickens.

"killing" a child... the child is not declared a homicide at this point. probably because the child wasn't murdered but left in the brush to be found/die/starve/freeze etc. to a dismembering SK, that probably isn't "killing". I can completely see someone who justifies dismembering escorts justifying wrapping her child in a blanket and leaving it in the woods.

It actually makes sense to me that it would be the SK. Sadly sometimes mothers abandon their newborn(it happened this week in NY). This child wrapped in a blanket SEEMS to fit that storyline EXCEPT that it's not a newborn, but a child "18-24 months in age" which falls far outside the profile for mothers who abandon their newborns.

I appreciate any thoughts on my thinking...
 
shadowraiths said:
Oops! Caffienne hasn't set in yet! lol

Imho, confirmation bias seems to be running rampant where Mr. Hyde is concerned. By confirmation bias, I mean, people discarding anything that rules the guy out, and embracing things, that rules him in.
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I need someone to post a list of things/anything that rule him out. I already took care of the megalist of circumstantial evidence that rules him in :)

thanks!
 
true when i dropped the emergency medicine part that may have seemed like nothing but confirmation bias. But I can say honestly that the notion of who (in any SK case in the world) can dismember another human? Because there are lots and lots of killers in these times, because it is easy, pull a trigger, run someone over when drunk driving, its easy. But who amongst us can dismember? I think very very few. Then I think who? Those who have had similar experiences, either in warfare, hunting etc. But the experience most similar to straight up dismembering another human I would have to say is medical school cadaver practice, performing or watching surgery, or someone who experienced it first hand: undergoing serious surgery or amputation.

There are very very few people who have direct experience with human (even I cut up a frog in school, almost vomitted btw) amputation/dismemberment.

so please, to make sure I am not suffering from confirmation bias, give me ONE example of ANYBODY on earth who would have more "experience" with amputation/dismemberment than a medical school graduate who worked as an EMT and in Emergency rooms and has had one of their own limbs amputated! I mean HOLY $#!% you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried! :banghead:

also, when brainstorming what people might have had the kind of experience that could make you comfortable dismembering, (again I'm thinking hunters, ultra violent warfare, slaughterhouse employees, butcher, etc...) remember the investigators who have detailed knowledge of these dismemberings aren't saying gang or maffia (it doesn't look like a chainsaw, axe, knife, or machete(there goes the MS-13 and shower posse idea!) made those slices on JT's tattoo) keep in mind what type of amputating/dismembering we are seeing in the LI victims: They have the look and feel of surgery, not gangsterism, or torture, or butchering...
 
truthspider said:
I need someone to post a list of things/anything that rule him out.

thanks!
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I'm sure the first suggestion you'll get is that he couldn't possibly have done it because he has a prosthetic leg. In my view, that's a moot point. He boats, so the prosthesis can't hinder him that much. Also...seems to me a killer with at least some physical limitations, might choose victims who were particularly small in stature. 3 of our known victims were VERY small women.

Not saying PH is our guy, just saying I sure wouldn't rule him out based on his physical challenges.

ETA: With respect to my "gang" comments, I wasn't really thinking so much of a big time gang. I was referring more to a group of people working together in illegal business. Gang-ish, if you will. ;)
 
Mountain_Kat said:
I'm sure the first suggestion you'll get is that he couldn't possibly have done it because he has a prosthetic leg. In my view, that's a moot point. He boats, so the prosthesis can't hinder him that much. Also...seems to me a killer with at least some physical limitations, might choose victims who were particularly small in stature. 3 of our known victims were VERY small women.

Not saying PH is our guy, just saying I sure wouldn't rule him out based on his physical challenges.

ETA: With respect to my "gang" comments, I wasn't really thinking so much of a big time gang. I was referring more to a group of people working together in illegal business. Gang-ish, if you will. ;)
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thanks, I had to bring up ms 13 as they have a bit of a rep for decapitations.
but i have to rule them out as I don't think the girls they worked with spoke english or had names like JT, etc.

And hey, any ms -13 members out there, didn't mean to make it seem like I was putting these victims on you guys, I wasn't ... were still cool right? ok ..
 
Wish we could know whether there was skill involved in the dismemberments. If there was none, I think we could rule him out of the Manorville murders. I have not had enough sleep or coffee yet to think logically this morning. Intuitively thinking is all I'm capable of now and I tend to agree with MK. Somehow I think our OB SK would consider a street walker beneath his dignity. Does that make sense?
 
Redbird said:
Wish we could know whether there was skill involved in the dismemberments. If there was none, I think we could rule him out of the Manorville murders. I have not had enough sleep or coffee yet to think logically this morning. Intuitively thinking is all I'm capable of now and I tend to agree with MK. Somehow I think our OB SK would consider a street walker beneath his dignity. Does that make sense?
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as far as the skill level, you can see the photos of JT's tattoo scratch out (something razor sharp looks to be the instrument) and the description of "forearm removal" sounds like fairly precise work to me.

prior to the web becoming the new 42nd st. street walkers would be the only available anonymous target as escorts use agencys that run credit cards etc and the agency's main function is protection of the escorts via client identification/verification.
 
truthspider said:
SNIP
also, when brainstorming what people might have had the kind of experience that could make you comfortable dismembering, (again I'm thinking hunters, ultra violent warfare, slaughterhouse employees, butcher, etc...) remember the investigators who have detailed knowledge of these dismemberings aren't saying gang or maffia (it doesn't look like a chainsaw, axe, knife, or machete(there goes the MS-13 and shower posse idea!) made those slices on JT's tattoo) keep in mind what type of amputating/dismembering we are seeing in the LI victims: They have the look and feel of surgery, not gangsterism, or torture, or butchering...
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Or a fisherman or mate on a fishing boat. We catch 200+ pound sharks and tuna around here. It's a bloody massacre scene on the boat or dock when it's time to butcher one and chop it into steaks or slice into fillets.
 
When did Craig's List become available for sexual ads? Before Craig's List, were there other publications from which one could advertise, i.e. Village Voice?
 
Redbird said:
When did Craig's List become available for sexual ads? Before Craig's List, were there other publications from which one could advertise, i.e. Village Voice?
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According to wikipedia craigslist started running ads in new york August 2000.

also:

In 2002, a disclaimer was put on the "men seeking men", "casual encounters", "erotic services", and "rants and raves" boards to ensure that those who clicked on these sections were over the age of 18, but no disclaimer was put on the "men seeking women", "women seeking men" or "women seeking women" boards. As a response to charges of discrimination and negative stereotyping, Buckmaster explained that the company's policy is a response to user feedback requesting the warning on the more sexually explicit sections, including "men seeking men."[34] Today, all of the above listed boards (as well as some others) have a disclaimer.
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[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craigslist[/ame]
 
nugzter said:
Ok to my theory of why the SK is dismembering not to hide the ID of the Victim, but to hide traces of DNA evidence…..
JT, Missing since July 18-21 2003. (Link 1)
Tattoo Removal-
The common theory is that the tattoo was removed to conceal the ID of the victim. Yes, Tattoos are a means of Identifying victims. But notice the way the tattoo was removed. According to (Link 1) see Pic.
“A police photo taken at the scene shows a tattoo on the right side of her back, with dozens of razor-thin crooked gashes, as though someone spent some considerable time not merely cutting the tattoo off but repeatedly slicing it from top to bottom. Police say it took medical examiners pushing the skin together to figure out what the tattoo was: a red heart with an angel wing that said, ‘‘Remy’s angel.’’
We have to assume that this was done post-mortem, and all indications lead us to believe this is the case. Here we see he did not remove the wing, simply just the name part. “Remy’s Angel” This implies he is not interested in hiding the victims ID, but the name tattooed on the victim. It is a partial tattoo and could be traced back to the victim regardless. According to (Link 1)
“A Washington, D.C. detective recognized the tattoo, six months later, as belonging to a woman reported missing by another local prostitute.”
The killer of JT had no interest of hiding the victims ID by disfiguring the tattoo.
Side note: Any one notices the wing? Google “Hell’s Angels” and you can see the similarities. If she was a prostitute for the Hell’s Angels, she could have been tagged by her pimp. And when she fled maybe this pimp or his counterparts in NY tracked her down and she was killed for that reason.

Body parts and dump sites-
(Link 2) “Ms. Taylor's nude body, with her head and hands severed, was discovered July 26 by a woman walking her dog near Halsey Manor Road and the Long Island Expressway.”
The removal of the hands could mean that the victim my have put up a fight and had DNA from her killer under her fingernails. Same could apply to the head, by biting the perpetrator and having the DNA in her mouth. And taking the tattoo theory I proposed, this would make more sense than to mutilate to cover the victims ID.

Link 1 - http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/03/24/long-islands-other-serial-killer/3/ Mar 2011
Link 2- http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/nyregion/in-brief-a-manorville-body-is-identified.html Feb 2004
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Thats a good possibility about the tattoo and dismembering. I hadn't thought of that.

According to this article, it seems JT would definitely put up a fight:

In one case, from Feb. 4, 2003, Taylor solicited an undercover officer for $50 to perform a sex act in Long Island City, Queens, records show.
When she was being booked, Taylor assaulted a police aide, punching her in the face, police said. She pleaded guilty to prostitution and assault charges.
Also that month, she pleaded guilty to possession of stolen property after she was accused of driving a stolen 1995 Chevy Cavalier in the East New York section of Brooklyn, where records indicate she lived.
After her guilty pleas, correction officials said Taylor was sent to Rikers on Feb. 25, 2003. She was discharged on April 28, 2003.
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http://www.newsday.com/news/breakin...868?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

It also sounds like she could have had a lot of shady connections if she's driving a stolen car around.


I am still a little skeptical of the theory in regards to the tattoo. It would be really helpful if we had an idea of it's history. Did she get it in high school with a girlfriend or boyfriend? Who knows. I looked into the name a bit and found a myspace account with a similar logo. It seems like a fairly common word combination.

http://www.myspace.com/remysangel/photos/error?error=1

I also found this on a modeling site

I have done work for clothing lines, swim wear, print, runway, video shoots, acting, promotional and will also be beginning to host events for Remy Chronicles as part of their main Remy's Angel.
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http://www.modelmayhem.com/1659942
 
Hey KAYTOM,
Yes I found that also on my Google search of REMY'S ANGEL. It turned out to be a dead end. There is alot of Remy's Angel stuff out there. But it must mean something to the killer to just remove the name. Maybe it was a mistake, could be Ronny's Angel or something like that. Who knows.
 
truthspider said:
I need someone to post a list of things/anything that rule him out. I already took care of the megalist of circumstantial evidence that rules him in :)

thanks!
Click to expand...


The only real trouble I have with him as a suspect is that phone call. Which doesn't necessarily mean anything. It could could have been him covering his bases if he was worried that he was seen with her. Hence the "I don't remember saying that" instead of "no, I never called her". Maybe he isn't trying to commit one way or the other.

I really wish LE would let a little more info out. I think it would reduce some of their work considering the 10 victims might be the work of multiple people.
Especially in regards to the baby.

Its a little baffling how people go missing or their unidentified bodies are found missing and it's barely a blip on the radar of regional news, yet we can have continued coverage for a week leading up to the Marriage of people from a different country.
 
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