Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#7

aa9511 said:

Climbing out of a swimming pool and climbing into a practically second-floor window of a house are two completely different things!!

Also, when climbing out of a swimming pool, your upper body is above the surface you're holding onto, so you can put a lot of strength on your arms to hoist you up. That's totally different from being below somewhere, then reaching up and having to hoist yourself up.....which means you have to hoist all your body weight up using, like Otto said, practically your fingertips.

It's not like in the gym where you see the guys doing the chin-ups/pull-ups with the bar. That is a bar that can wrap all their fingers around and then pull themselves up.

The windowsill is a ledge. He would have had nothing to grip onto, as would be the case with a bar.

Logic, logic.

I just do not see how it's possible from so far down below.

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This photo shows a lawyer climbing up and he is at chest level and he isn't stepping on top rung from ladder below...


link

Harmony2 said:

This photo shows a lawyer climbing up and he is at chest level and he isn't stepping on top rung from ladder below...

link

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Chest level is relative. Guede was 5'10" (Dempsey). How tall is that man? Is he able to climb through the window without the bars on the top window?

aa9511 said:

Why is it that Amanda apparently didn't see this broken window for the entire time she was in the house taking her "shower," yet according to Raffaelo, he saw it immediately and knew something was wrong?

How does the broken window fit into Amanda's "shower story"? From what I've read about her account of her being in the cottage that morning, she never mentions the window. She just completely leaves it out of her whole account.

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Subtle differences in two peoples recall of a past event aren't proof of a web of lies and a vast conspiracy.

Guede is first at the cottage around 8pm while the diabolical students were watching Ameile and didn't even know their evening would be free.

http://www.oggi.it/video/notizie/2012/03/05/caso-di-perugia-il-video-mai-visto-di-rudy-guede/

Guede admits being at the cottage when Meredith got home at 9.01pm yet Ameile didn't end till 9.10pm

Did they head over to the cottage and find the unwelcome guest there and spontaneously assist him murdering a housemate?

otto said:

He sure did. One of his alibi claims was that Meredith's blood might be found on his knife because she had dinner at his apartment and, at that imaginery meal, he accidentally cut her with his knife.

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LOL! Nutso are what they are. Like I said, you know things can go wrong when you have 3 crazies together. And then people wonder how it could get to that point.....

Amber29 said:

I don't think it takes a genius to break the window in the room they can shut off and pretend to not notice until they are ready.

I've already answered your question of breaking the window last.

What if a roommate had returned home before the window was broke?

They did wait over two hours from the "shower" to actually calling the cops.

I actually find it odd that they waited so long between calling Filomena and finally calling the police.

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Not if they wanted Filomena to be the one to discover the body. Filomena calls the police. Filomena answers the questions, i.e. how did you find the body, etc.. Filomena the one doing all the talking, leaves Amanda and RS in the background. What they didn't want was all the attention coming from discovering the body, calling police, etc.. But their original plan got messed up when the PP arrived unexpectedly.

Katody said:

Well, what if? It's not like they had anything to do in the flat. Why would they stay there at all, with the body in the room? Makes no sense.




Yes, that makes no sense. Why not alarm Filomena or the cops when everything was ready. The guilt scenario makes zero sense. Both the group killing and the aftermath.

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What do you mean "it's not like they had anything to do in the flat." What about the whole cleaning-up/staging that we've been talking about? I know you don't believe it, but what we're talking about right now is the what-if scenarios of them being involved in the murder.

What do you mean, why not alarm Filomena when everything was ready? Maybe they did think everything was ready. Maybe they didn't notice there were some things left in the small bathroom. Maybe they were under pressure, and they made that mistake (leaving some things).

There is one question, though, of why didn't they just stay at RS's apartment or go on their planned trip and just let someone else discover the body naturally? (i.e. without calling Filomena).

Hmmm.....but then, they wouldn't have her "shower story" to explain any signs of her the police might have found in the small bathroom (from the clean-up/cover-up after the murder). , or the rest of the cottage for that matter, except for Meredith's room So that would require her to have been at the cottage sometime in the morning. And that would require having to "report" the "strange signs," because otherwise people wouldn't believe that she went to take a shower and didn't notice anything out-of-the ordinary and would suspect why she didn't let anyone know about the state of the cottage (broken window, Meredith's room being locked, etc.).

The police showed up unexpectedly, so don't know what you mean why didn't they wait to call the police? They did wait.

Tugela said:

I think the answer is that he was already there when she arrived, probably waiting in ambush for AK to come home. If he was in one of the other girls bedrooms (and was aware that she was not coming home that night) he could have just left through the window again if AK came back with company. If she came back alone she would have been raped. But, AK didn't come, instead MK came, went to her bedroom and started to take her shoes off. RG then comes out of the other bedroom, and attacks MK because she just happened to be there alone.

I think it is quite clear what happened. I don't see why the prosecution needs these elaborate largely unsubstantiated theories about what happened, when the simplest explanation was that RG was a rapist who knew that he had the chance to catch one of the girls alone, and took the opportunity. That sort of thing is a scenario that happens ALL the time, it is supported by the evidence, so why do we need an outlandish theory instead?

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Yes, but, I'm just having a lot of trouble piecing this together.....

Ok first of all....you're going with the theory that his main intent that night ws to rape one of the girls. That would be the "waiting to ambush" part. Becaues if he was just going about his burglary and was unexpectedly interrupted by Meredith, I have outline that scenario in my post, and I believe there would have been many more signs of a struggle or something happening way before Meredith's bedroom. Which there is not sign of in evidence, all the evidence we have points to Meredith's bedroom. If you noticed, I went through scenarios of Meredith walking up on him depending on where he was in the house.

So to get to your scenario, we have to start with the assumption that his main goal was to rape, that's why he was purposefully hiding and lying in wait. So....he's waiting.....where is he waiting. To be waiting in Meredith's room, would mean he was specifically hunting Meredith down. To wait in Amanda's room, and then Meredith shows up, there would have been signs of a struggle in Amanda's room. Or whatever room he was waiting in.

We could go with the theory that he used his knife to threaten Meredith to walk to her room. But why would he want them to go to her room? What difference did it make to him, whether he raped her in Amanda's room, in Filomean's room, Laura's room, living room, hallway, etc.. Why take her all the way to her own room? Makes no sense. He could have done it anywhere.

Also, if Meredith sees him with a knife, let's say he's in Filomena's room, first thing she would do, IMO, is instinctively run back towards the front door. Rudy would catch her, Struggle would be somewhere there, between the bedrooms and the front door.

And wouldn't it make more sense for him to be waiting right by the front door, so he could grab the girl as soon as she walks in, rather than have her wander around the house and find him, and risk her somehow being able to get away? It does not make sense.

Also, let's say he's waiting in one of the rooms. Like I said, Meredith would have noticed the broken window, if not from light, then from the cold air draft. She would have immediately starting running towards the front door to get out of there, knowing she's home alone and someone has obviously broken into the house.

The struggle would have then been between the bedrooms and the front door.

I am just not getting how it ended up in Meredith's room, and the way it did with the evidence we have.

Please read this post and the last post I read about possible scnearios.

I feel like I have gone over many scenarios of lone-wolf Rudy, and none of them point to the struggle being contained in Meredith's room.

MichaelSmith said:

Subtle differences in two peoples recall of a past event aren't proof of a web of lies and a vast conspiracy.

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It's not a "subtle" difference....it's a dang broken window!! How is that something "subtle," like say a chair being in a slightly different spot? Or not noticing whether the tv was on or not?

Harmony2 said:

This photo shows a lawyer climbing up and he is at chest level and he isn't stepping on top rung from ladder below...

link

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I don't know.

Couldn't they have done something to get Rudy to demonstrate and show them how he climbed up to the window? Couldn't they have made that part of the "fast-track" deal or whatever?

That would have explained things once and for all.

I know that's kind of (not kind of, really) bending the justice system, but whatever, it would have answered many questions.

aa9511 said:

I don't know.

Couldn't they have done something to get Rudy to demonstrate and show them how he climbed up to the window? Couldn't they have made that part of the "fast-track" deal or whatever?

That would have explained things once and for all.

I know that's kind of (not kind of, really) bending the justice system, but whatever, it would have answered many questions.

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According to Guede, the window was not broken when he left the cottage.

otto said:

According to Guede, the window was not broken when he left the cottage.

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Oh yeah...LOL. Scratch that.

Well, heck, let's just foget about the justice system for a minute....they should have had him demonstrate it anyway! LOL!

It just seems funny to me seeing that picture of the lawyer guy in his nice pants and shirt, trying to climb the wall. And then they had that professional climber guy, and all the controversy surrounding his performance, which was discussed on here.

And I'm just thinkin', hey the guy who really should be demonstrating what Rudy could do is Rudy himself!

Page 136
He advance the hypothesis that the victim had received the wounds to the hands by falling onto all fours and encountering tiny fragments of glass on the floor, and in regard to this, he noted that during the inspection, the video of the Scientific Police showed a fragment of glass near a footprint.

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Page 139
He explained that the piece of glass was placed near the feet of the victim.

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http://truejustice.org/ee/documents/perugia/TheMasseiReport.pdf

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Raffaele_Sollecito_Appeal.pdf

Non viene menzionata una attività di apertura file multimediale “Naruto episodio 101” avvenuta giovedì 1° novembre 2007 alle ore 21:26
[..]
In verità, effettuando la ricerca con “Spotlight” nella versione 10.4.10, è stato
individuato almeno un file “Naruto ep 101.avi” che non è presente nella
consulenza della polizia postale, ma la cui data di ultima apertura risulta giovedì
1° novembre 2007 alle ore 21:26 (cioè nel periodo preso in esame dalla polizia
postale: 1° novembre 2007 ore 18:00 – 2 novembre 2007 ore 8:00).

La data di ultimo accesso (martedì 6 novembre 2007 ore 10:18:38 ) e di ultima
modifica di tale file (martedì 6 novembre 2007 ore 13:28:09) corrisponde ad un
periodo coincidente con il prelievo del laptop dalla abitazione di Raffaele
Sollecito, periodo nel quale vengono rilevate attività sul suddetto portatile
testimoniate dai file di log di sistema.
>>

Google translate translations

<< There is mention of a business opening media "Naruto episode 101" took place on Thursday 1 November 2007 at 21:26
[..]
Indeed, by searching for "Spotlight" version 10.4.10, was
identified at least one file "Naruto ep 101.avi" that is not present in
advice of the police post, but whose last date of opening is Thursday
1 November 2007, at 21:26 (ie in the period examined by the police
Post: 1st November 2007 18:00 - November 2, 2007 at 8:00).
The date of last access (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 10:18:38) and last
edit that file (Tuesday, 6 November 2007 at 13:28:09) corresponds to a
period coinciding with the withdrawal of laptops from the house of Raffaele
Sollecito, a period in which activities are recorded on this laptop
evidenced by the file system log.

aa9511 said:

It was dark so she went walking through the house feeling her way around in the dark to get to her room??

??

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I thought Otto was talking about her noticing it as she walked up to the house?? Was Filomena's door shut, wide open or just ajar at the time that Meredith came home? There is no way to know this and therefore NO WAY anyone can claim that Meredith would have without a doubt noticed it.

otto said:

Let's keep it simple and at the same time, let's include the facts. It was raining on the night of the murder (Prosecutor Crini Nov 25, 2013). The exterior wall is made of stone. Stone is slippery when wet. There is no glass below the window. The window ledge has a layer of broken glass. The wall is completely flat, so there is nothing to stand on after stepping onto the bottom window bars. There are no bars on the upper window to hold onto.

The simulation uses the newly installed bars and the climber does not demonstrate the climb without using the bars. The simulation shows the climber, using only four fingers on his left hand, to hold himself such that this hand is lower than his shoulders, and he is freely moving his right hand. All of a sudden, he is unable to hoist himself up using both hands?

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I provided you links from independent sources regarding the weather that night. No rain. I know the argument is that it could have rained in that area of Perugia and not others, but I do believe that will still be recorded as precipitation. The link I provided states NO precipitation.

aa9511 said:

Oh yeah...LOL. Scratch that.

Well, heck, let's just foget about the justice system for a minute....they should have had him demonstrate it anyway! LOL!

It just seems funny to me seeing that picture of the lawyer guy in his nice pants and shirt, trying to climb the wall. And then they had that professional climber guy, and all the controversy surrounding his performance, which was discussed on here.

And I'm just thinkin', hey the guy who really should be demonstrating what Rudy could do is Rudy himself!

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So, you guys believe what he says, but NOTHING that Amanda and Raffaele say? IMO, that is pretty extreme bias.

aa9511 said:

Haven't you ever heard the quote, "don't always believe what you see on tv"??

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Do you agree with Otto that they suspended the Perugian climber from invisible wires and made him lie and pretend to climb on TV?

Seems expensive and risky.

Why not just show the truth?

Amber29 said:

At 1:45 he does NOT pull himself up.

He attempts to, fails and lowers himself back down then queue the camera on the lawyers.

When they return the camera to him, he's sitting on the ledge holding the bars.

The video leaves it to the viewers imagination how he got up there.

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What stopped him from going all the way up? I think it's the fact that the bars are in the way and the window is closed. What do you think?



The Video at 0:30 shows how he got up there in detail.



I'm baffled. It really doesn't look fake to me.

aa9511 said:

[/B]

Not if they wanted Filomena to be the one to discover the body. Filomena calls the police. Filomena answers the questions, i.e. how did you find the body, etc.. Filomena the one doing all the talking, leaves Amanda and RS in the background. What they didn't want was all the attention coming from discovering the body, calling police, etc.. But their original plan got messed up when the PP arrived unexpectedly.

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It seems going on a trip and leaving everything for Filomena would do.