CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

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Traveling like that, she had to be blowing through money. Even staying at cheaper hotels, it would still be expensive. She could have very generous parents but wow, that is pretty generous if your parents aren't rich.

Even with a credit card, I wonder how long you could keep it up because a lot of credit cards watch carefully how you are spending money and whether you are employed. They can be very intrusive about inquiring and they will drastically lower your credit limit (below what you owe) so you can't even use your credit card if they feel you are a default risk. They will do this, even canceling your card, even if you have never missed a payment. B of A is well known for this. Plus the interest payments are pretty high unless you are on an introductory credit card limited time deal. But usually, if you are racking up a lot of credit card debt, you will have to make pretty large monthly payments just in interest.

So that still begs the question, where was all of that money coming from?

Maybe she took out student loans and was living off of that?


samevo8 said:
Per the tumblr blogs, she didn't seem to have much money (although "much" is subjective/relative.) She gets a job (presumably in a women's shoe store) mid December 2012 and mentions that she can now earn "food money."

However, not feeling that she had much money, she was still able to travel a good amount (she's gone to NYC, Quebec, Toronto, Vancouver, California) and was able to keep up acquiring a good amount of books (she was wondering how she'd be able to carry back all the books she bought over on her Quebec/Toronto trip and apparently she was at "The Last Bookstore" in downtown L.A. before her disappearance.)
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O/T Just want to thank the sleuths for an informative and (I want to say "enjoyable", but somehow that seems inappropriate given the circumstances) conversation today. With 2 very young children at home, it's rare I get to participate. I have read every post of every thread with respect to Elisa Lam and think it's wonderful that so many of us want to see justice served and are willing to dedicate time trying to put pieces together. Anyway, I appreciate being able to voice my opinion, theories, etc., and receive respectful comments in return.
Carry on! I'll pop back on whenever I have a chance :)
 
MesaVerde said:
Traveling like that, she had to be blowing through money. Even staying at cheaper hotels, it would still be expensive. She could have very generous parents but wow, that is pretty generous if your parents aren't rich.

Even with a credit card, I wonder how long you could keep it up because a lot of credit cards watch carefully how you are spending money and whether you are employed. They can be very intrusive about inquiring and they will drastically lower your credit limit (below what you owe) so you can't even use your credit card if they feel you are a default risk. They will do this, even canceling your card, even if you have never missed a payment. B of A is well known for this. Plus the interest payments are pretty high unless you are on an introductory credit card limited time deal. But usually, if you are racking up a lot of credit card debt, you will have to make pretty large monthly payments just in interest.

So that still begs the question, where was all of that money coming from?

Maybe she took out student loans and was living off of that?
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For context: I got my first credit card in 2nd year university, in ‘99. A credit card company set up a booth at my school to give away credit cards with a picture of the school on it, and a bunch of free swag like T-shirts, etc. They sold it as a “great opportunity to start building up your credit rating.” My credit limit was $8,000. EIGHT THOUSAND, for a university student making $7/hour at a part time job! By the time I graduated, they were trying to bump me up to $12,000! That should never have happened, but it does. Students are easy prey for credit card companies, because many of them don’t know much about how credit cards work, many of them don’t yet understand the value of money, and they are also often constantly poor and thus more likely to need to put things on credit. I’m lucky in that I only got a little over my head before I figured out how to budget properly, but I know some people who are still paying off credit card debt that is 5+ years old! Not saying that Elisa was like this, but it’s possible. It is also possible that she had some family financing. Perhaps, if she was having trouble finding herself, her family might have even thought that travel was good for her. But now I’m getting into wild conjecture. :3

Edit to add: this credit card company also has frequent "payment holidays" for students -- sometimes, I was going 4+ months at a time with "payment holidays" (ie: a bill of $0 for that month). Tricky: catering to the students on a budget ("yay, I don't have to pay anything this month!") while still racking up their interest in the background. *shakes head*

Oh, and a bit of other info: if she was not currently enrolled in university as some reports have suggested, she wouldn't have been able to get a student loan for this semester in our province.
 
Holy cow! They are such rat bastards. I always felt that kids get taught the wrong things in school. Let's be honest, most of them are never going to use the Pythagorean Theorem again in their lives but they all need to know what you wrote below. But if a teacher tried to tell them about it, he or she would get in trouble--not on the curriculum, personal opinion, political, giving advice outside his/her field of expertise, etc.

It definitely makes me think she could have been financing these trips on credit.

kunibob said:
For context: I got my first credit card in 2nd year university, in ‘99. A credit card company set up a booth at my school to give away credit cards with a picture of the school on it, and a bunch of free swag like T-shirts, etc. They sold it as a “great opportunity to start building up your credit rating.” My credit limit was $8,000. EIGHT THOUSAND, for a university student making $7/hour at a part time job! By the time I graduated, they were trying to bump me up to $12,000! That should never have happened, but it does. Students are easy prey for credit card companies, because many of them don’t know much about how credit cards work, many of them don’t yet understand the value of money, and they are also often constantly poor and thus more likely to need to put things on credit. I’m lucky in that I only got a little over my head before I figured out how to budget properly, but I know some people who are still paying off credit card debt that is 5+ years old! Not saying that Elisa was like this, but it’s possible. It is also possible that she had some family financing. Perhaps, if she was having trouble finding herself, her family might have even thought that travel was good for her. But now I’m getting into wild conjecture. :3

Edit to add: this credit card company also has frequent "payment holidays" for students -- sometimes, I was going 4+ months at a time with "payment holidays" (ie: a bill of $0 for that month). Tricky: catering to the students on a budget ("yay, I don't have to pay anything this month!") while still racking up their interest in the background. *shakes head*

Oh, and a bit of other info: if she was not currently enrolled in university as some reports have suggested, she wouldn't have been able to get a student loan for this semester in our province.
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four_seasons said:
had a quick look at the video...
to summarize just at the 35 min mark:
there's 1 incident in taiwan where the lady entered the elevator and just disappeared. she entered the elevator with her 4 yr old daughter with the intention to visit some friends on the 11th floor. as soon as she got in the elevator, she took her sweater and shoes off. they have images of her going into the building but not leaving the building and she was disappeared since. no trace of her since. maybe @anansie can do a better translation...
Click to expand...

I am impressed with your Chinese/Taiwanese (?). Wow. I never visited there or China. I only know things I recognize that are the same as in Japan. When it is not the same, then it is totally foreign to me.

Thank you so much. That is what it looked like (a kidnapping by a stranger). I thought she was a man with the haircut. Japanese women look a lot different and dress much different. I was wondering why he didn't fight. I thought the other person had a weapon or something. Now that I know it was a woman, it makes more sense why she just did like she was told.

So then at the end she picked up her child and went with whomever was giving her orders I guess? She looked very scared. From her body language, it was absolutely a complete stranger that took her. He was giving he orders and she was nodding her head in submission. I thought the other man was smaller than her. But it was her child which she picked up. Now it makes a lot more sense. And the look of fear was because she was ordered to come with him. Before that, she was probably hoping it was just a robbery. When she knew she was being ordered with him, then she was terrified.

Oh, maybe it was more than one man. She must have been terrified. Awful.

So does this television program have an opinion about what happened to Elisa Lam? Do they just offer various possibilities or are they leaning toward one answer?
 
AlphaWolf said:
yes exactly!

- also ..like you said, bieng able to access the roof and take video tells you alot about the hotel security/maintenance.
Click to expand...

No one is running the hotel really. It's in limbo. The lenders took it back from the investors because the city refused to allow the investors to get rid of the residents for their plans of converting the Cecil into a Hipster Hostel. The last I've read, it is planning to go back onto market.
 
- A diagnosis of drowning cannot be made without a complete autopsy and full toxicologic screening, histologic analyses of all organs including the lungs, and the diatom test. The diagnosis of drowning cannot be based solely on the circumstances of the death, nonspecific anatomic findings, and the results of biologic analyses.

Source: http://netk.net.au/Reports/DiagnosticsofDrowning.asp[/QUOTE]


Most likely the coroner already has a cause of death in mind but is just waiting for the tests to come back to tie up the loose ends. I read somewhere in a news article that they were also testing different things like the liver for whatever reasons.
 
Borris said:
No one is running the hotel really. It's in limbo. The lenders took it back from the investors because the city refused to allow the investors to get rid of the residents for their plans of converting the Cecil into a Hipster Hostel. The last I've read, it is planning to go back onto market.
Click to expand...

The irony is that Elisa Lam might be dead because the city forced them to keep those residents.

As I think about it, a jobless resident (seems most are on the welfare rolls) has more leisure time to do this sort of thing than an employee. If you are an employee, you are on the clock. You can't really be spending time on something like this unless you make it really fast.

It most likely happened at night from the timeline. Usually, only front desk staff work at a hotel at night. It would be weird for a different staff person to be there after their shift is over. The night staff doesn't usually sit around doing nothing either like you might think. Usually, the night front desk is one person who also does the night audit, which means that they have to do some paperwork to close out all the day's accounts. They can usually get it done in about half of their shift but they still have to answer the phone if somebody calls and also check in or out late night people. So they can't just leave their post casually. And people staying in the hotel will wander down to ask you for things. If you aren't around, people will wonder about it.

Really leaning toward resident now if it was murder.
 
MesaVerde said:
I am impressed with your Chinese/Taiwanese (?). Wow. I never visited there or China. I only know things I recognize that are the same as in Japan. When it is not the same, then it is totally foreign to me.

Thank you so much. That is what it looked like (a kidnapping by a stranger). I thought she was a man with the haircut. Japanese women look a lot different and dress much different. I was wondering why he didn't fight. I thought the other person had a weapon or something. Now that I know it was a woman, it makes more sense why she just did like she was told.

So then at the end she picked up her child and went with whomever was giving her orders I guess? She looked very scared. From her body language, it was absolutely a complete stranger that took her. He was giving he orders and she was nodding her head in submission. I thought the other man was smaller than her. But it was her child which she picked up. Now it makes a lot more sense.

So does this television program have an opinion about what happened to Elisa Lam? Do they just offer various possibilities or are they leaning toward one answer?
Click to expand...

I'm Chinese. and the clip is from Taiwan.

i haven't had time to watch the whole clip yet as i'm at work right now.
but i got the feeling that they are leaning towards supernatural stuff..
 
four_seasons said:
I'm Chinese. and the clip is from Taiwan.

i haven't had time to watch the whole clip yet as i'm at work right now.
but i got the feeling that they are leaning towards supernatural stuff..
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Thank you for taking the time. It seems maybe a lot of the Chinese shows about Elisa Lam's case are leaning towards supernatural explanations. Is that right?

Here is another clip about Elisa Lam's case if you have any time when you are finished with work. Maybe if you hear something interesting you can tell us. I am sorry I don't know any Chinese. I am scared to try to learn because I think the tones are too difficult for me and there are too many Chinese characters. I guess I am so lazy. Japanese is much easier. Thank you for giving an explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-umuvUtnls8
 
The body of the woman found in Newport Beach has been identified. Going to need a new thread and this one is going to get seedy...
 
The reason for opening a sub-forum is to break out the discussion into topic specific threads. This facilitates locating information and alleviates confusion. I'm trying to work on that today while I have some time, starting with a new thread for discussion of the elevator video.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201183"]The Elevator Video: What's your take? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Some posts have been moved or copied there already. Any new posts pertaining to the elevator video should be posted there as well.

I'll be doing the same for other topics, and will post the links as I open the threads. Once the threads are open, I'll copy earlier posts that contain links to relevant MSM articles, images, videos, and certain blogs. I won't get all of them, but I'll do my best to locate the most important ones. If you have ideas for topics, or would like to add posts that I've overlooked, just send me a pm.

Thanks for your cooperation.
 
Thanks for the link. Too bad we don't have shows like that. Seems like a panel of people who are being queried on whether they believe EL committed suicide or was murdered (and how it could have happened.) Good to watch, plus apparently I get lotto numbers (4 min mark)!


MesaVerde said:
Thank you for taking the time. It seems maybe a lot of the Chinese shows about Elisa Lam's case are leaning towards supernatural explanations. Is that right?

Here is another clip about Elisa Lam's case if you have any time when you are finished with work. Maybe if you hear something interesting you can tell us. I am sorry I don't know any Chinese. I am scared to try to learn because I think the tones are too difficult for me and there are too many Chinese characters. I guess I am so lazy. Japanese is much easier. Thank you for giving an explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-umuvUtnls8
Click to expand...
 
I was thinking the same thing as I was watching it...why don't we get shows like that? They seemed to be giving a lot of detail of the facts as much as they know them from what I could tell from the photos and clips. We get Nancy Grace who just drones on the same thing every night with very little in the way of critical thinking going on or fresh details to the cases. Lots of pictures of Nancy's kids for her sycophants to drool over like I care. I'd rather have lotto numbers! :rocker:

You know, this site probably does that NG's investigative work for her. She probably has a full time staff member that just reads this all day.

samevo8 said:
Thanks for the link. Too bad we don't have shows like that. Seems like a panel of people who are being queried on whether they believe EL committed suicide or was murdered (and how it could have happened.) Good to watch, plus apparently I get lotto numbers (4 min mark)!
Click to expand...
 
bessie said:
The reason for opening a sub-forum is to break out the discussion into topic specific threads. This facilitates locating information and alleviates confusion. I'm trying to work on that today while I have some time, starting with a new thread for discussion of the elevator video.

The Elevator Video: What's your take? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Some posts have been moved or copied there already. Any new posts pertaining to the elevator video should be posted there as well.

I'll be doing the same for other topics, and will post the links as I open the threads. Once the threads are open, I'll copy earlier posts that contain links to relevant MSM articles, images, videos, and certain blogs. I won't get all of them, but I'll do my best to locate the most important ones. If you have ideas for topics, or would like to add posts that I've overlooked, just send me a pm.

Thanks for your cooperation.
Click to expand...

Looks great. caught me a bit off, I was thinking when did I post in this thread...lol
 
A new thread to discuss rooftop access.

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201238"]Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
noodled1 said:
The body of the woman found in Newport Beach has been identified. Going to need a new thread and this one is going to get seedy...
Click to expand...

Here it is!!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9001659#post9001659"]CA, Newport Beach, Body of Woman Found on Sand, 4th Mar 2013 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
And one for the water tanks

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201246"]The Water Tanks - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Borris said:
No one is running the hotel really. It's in limbo. The lenders took it back from the investors because the city refused to allow the investors to get rid of the residents for their plans of converting the Cecil into a Hipster Hostel. The last I've read, it is planning to go back onto market.
Click to expand...

Surprised that the lender hasn't shut the hotel part down. I wonder if the lawsuit is going to end up being against the lender.

The amount of detail shared by these teams of kids and individuals is astounding. You know they had to have been up on the roof and/or in the hallways and elevators for hours.

This lack of management makes it even easier for me to believe that EL was killed either by staff members or the long term residents. No one apparently cares or is accountable for what happens there.

I know L.A. didn't want the residents to get kicked out, but mixing a regular hotel with transient housing is a recipe for disaster. I don't see the hotel part working out that well now. Just keep it a transient hotel since L.A. doesn't seem that excited about turning around the neighborhood.
 
My mom was telling me stories today about how my dad use to stay at the Cecil Hotel 25 years ago, 14$ a night. She wonders now how the heck she used the elevator by herself so many times at night.
 
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