do you think maddie is alive or dead

I really hope she is with us, i really do. I agree I do not see how madeleine could have died in the flat and her parents removed the body that night. And I do not buy into the conspiracy theories of a double being used.

I do not think the parents have behaved suspiciously, I just think they were in the spotlight a lot more thna in other cases. April jones mother for instance has only been shown at press conferences. When Holly and Jessica disappeared in soham I remember a journalist said he had spoken to her mother shopping in the town just before they were foudn, she had apparently said she just had to get out and do something normal. BUT she wa snot followed by the cameras, or filmed speaking to the journalist. If that had been Kate mccann she woudl have been filmed and the film much discussed.

Cappuccino said:

I don't want to get into an argument with you Clutchbag, because I honestly don't know what happened here. But I would just ask you to ask yourself the following hypothetical question - say Kate McCann claimed to have witnessed Madeleine being abducted, and there was no corroborating evidence. No other witnesses, no defensive wounds, forensics, anything. That's the position Jaycee's stepfather was in for 18 years.

Would you really take her word for it? Or would you think it was even more grounds to suspect her?

If Madeleine was abducted at all she was abducted with no other witness present, apart from her two younger (and most likely sleeping) siblings. So the fact that there are no witnesses doesn't mean she wasn't abducted.

Basically, I don't know is my answer.

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Would i take her word for it? Not in a million years

Salem, thank you for the changes, its perfect.

Eddie pretty much sealed it for me.

He was a cadaver dog. He alerted for cadaverine.

Dogs don't lie.

Sadly, I voted Dead and parents "NOT" innocent.

(And to be clear, I don't think they "killed" Maddie except by neglect by leaving her alone. My theory is she fell out the window or down the steps and the parents covered up her death for several good reasons - foreign country, they are doctors with reputations, they knew how it would seem, etc. And I was here from the beginning of the case and believe me, the parents were often cool as cucumbers right after it happened, keeping up their running routines, writing perky emails - it seemed odd then and it seems odd now. And I believe the cadaver dog, too - it hit on the area under the window, and I believe if memory serves me, on the rental car. They explained it as garbage they hauled around in the trunk - where did we hear that before? Casey Anthony.)

There are just too many unanswered questions for the McCanns to be credible, let alone some of the behaviours they have displayed since. :what:

This is the UK's version of Jonbenet.

Sadly, it is proof that you can buy innocence (or at least, distance yourself from guilt) in the UK justice system, as well as in the US.

If the McCanns had've been black or on welfare, they'd likely be in prison.

:banghead:

if the mccanns were in the uk when this happened i dont think they would have got off scot free, can you imagine what people would say if they left three babies at home with an open door and went down the pub and then get lawyers to call it responsible parenting

Clutchbag said:

if the mccanns were in the uk when this happened i dont think they would have got off scot free, can you imagine what people would say if they left three babies at home with an open door and went down the pub and then get lawyers to call it responsible parenting

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I'm not sure about that.

They have managed to slide away completely untouched by neglect charges.

I'm no expert on the British law but I'm fairly sure they could bring charges if they wanted to, as all players were British subjects.

We had a case here of a woman dying on a cruise ship in international waters, it didn't stop our prosecutors throwing all sorts of charges at those involved.

The McCanns seem to have got away with it all, very effectively.

I had high hopes for the "review' but AR pretty much shot those down when he announced half way through what he thinks the outcome will be.

Way to be impartial, AR.

:banghead:

:cow:

Poor people tend to get prosecuted for neglect and endangering their kids, the rich dont but I think something would have happened in this case, the brit police are not stupid, and they wouldnt have put up with all their shenanigans or gerrys controlfreakery and teying to steer the media and the police for a minute, he would havebeen told where to go, they should thank their lucky stars they were in portugal with a language barrier

We now know it was the British Police who developed evidence implicating the parents in the first place.

It was the British Police who supplied Eddie and Keela.

What I would like is explained is this -

Why those original British investigators were removed from the case?

I do not see how SY can call a "review" when the original investigation was never completed.

Why not just reopen the investigation with the original team? Is is because now we have political interference at the highest level, everyone just wants this to go away?

Link to wikileaks document proving political interference, and that the British Police were the first ones to suspect the McCanns.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/124011

I voted 'Don't know' because there's no option for 'don't know whether she's dead or alive but parents innocent'.

IMO I think the parents were totally in the wrong for leaving Madeleine alone but I don't think they accidentally or deliberately killed her.

I also think it is unlikely that Madeleine is alive but i'm not going to give up hope that she is out there alive. If she is alive I pray to god that her abductor is not tormenting her by showing her all the stuff that is out there on the internet too many people have given up hope IMO.

What happened to the team of retired coppers ?Dave Edgar? They were insistent that she was in a "lawless" area near PDL. Did they search this area?

Gem2626 said:

I voted 'Don't know' because there's no option for 'don't know whether she's dead or alive but parents innocent'.

IMO I think the parents were totally in the wrong for leaving Madeleine alone but I don't think they accidentally or deliberately killed her.

I also think it is unlikely that Madeleine is alive but i'm not going to give up hope that she is out there alive. If she is alive I pray to god that her abductor is not tormenting her by showing her all the stuff that is out there on the internet too many people have given up hope IMO.

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You are assuming apart fom there being an abductor at all that it is a sadistic cruel person who stole a three yr old to torture mentally?

Thats a first

badhorsie said:

What happened to the team of retired coppers ?Dave Edgar? They were insistent that she was in a "lawless" area near PDL. Did they search this area?

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they got rid of them a couple years ago and yes,they proved totally useless,just mouthpieces,well edgar was the other one didnt utter a squeak ever

Edgar only ever went after innocent people like farmworkers, cleaners and market stall holders and splashed them all over the news of the world

he is also famous for saying paedophiles took her and 24 hours later saying a loving couple who couldnt have kids had her

he is also famous for the victoria beckham lookalike sighting which ended up the sham it always was along with all the other shams who came forward YEARS later LOL

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/08/06/madeleine.mccann/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

Madeleine McCann: Hunt for 'Victoria Beckham lookalike' - YouTube

Every time I see Kate clinging on to cuddle cat, I wish she could've taken as good care of her children.

It really beggars belief that these two have blamed everyone and everything but themselves.

Think of it - right now, they are engaged in a legal arm wrestle over publication of a book by one of the main investigators.

Five years on they are engaged actively in surpressing information.

They have admitted the searches have stopped.

The court cases haven't.

Which is more important?

:maddening:

Gem2626 said:

I voted 'Don't know' because there's no option for 'don't know whether she's dead or alive but parents innocent'.

IMO I think the parents were totally in the wrong for leaving Madeleine alone but I don't think they accidentally or deliberately killed her.

I also think it is unlikely that Madeleine is alive but i'm not going to give up hope that she is out there alive. If she is alive I pray to god that her abductor is not tormenting her by showing her all the stuff that is out there on the internet too many people have given up hope IMO.

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Well I don't know. I think that if I was in the clutches of an abductor who has snatched me from my family for unmentionable purposes and has no intention of letting me go it would be torture enough and it would be pretty irrelevant to me what a bunch of strangers on the internet think happened to me.

Donjeta said:

Well I don't know. I think that if I was in the clutches of an abductor who has snatched me from my family for unmentionable purposes and has no intention of letting me go it would be torture enough and it would be pretty irrelevant to me what a bunch of strangers on the internet think happened to me.

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Totally agree, what a ridiculous assertion.

The only mystifying thing really about this entire case is how the McCanns have got away with it.

McCann supporters, when pressed, only have one reason for blindly continuing to support them, and that is "I can't believe it".

A lot of other people couldn't believe it either, starting with Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, Richard Branson and JR Rowling.

Unfortunately, the politicians at least realised quite soon that they had made a mistake...their world renowned heart surgeon friend was quite possibly a psycopath in a suit.

So, to distance themselves from looking like naive elitists, the British government instructed the UK police to archive the investigation, and kicked the stuffing out of the PJ investigation by ensuring they were given dodgy DNA science.

Exactly the same scenario as the Jonbenet Ramsey mess...I don't know why the British find it so hard to believe it happening in their Government, particularly now we have proof of the Hillsborough cover-up. To continue to blindly deny these sorts of conspiracies occur is ingenuous and pointless.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19610226

:banghead:

Anyway it doesn't really matter how long and hard the McCann protest, as I have said, history will judge this.

Like all narcissists, Gerry couldn't get enough attention and he played to the cameras incessantly. His enjoyment of his new found fame is obvious.

In a few short years you will find NO McCann supporters, on any forums. They will evaporate. Their beliefs are based on nothing more than fantasy and a rose like view of the world and as time goes by, more and more people are starting to realise that something just isn't right.

I hope this "review" is the beginning of the end of this sage, but what I fear is that it will be just another layer of bs.

ullhair:

Donjeta said:

Well I don't know. I think that if I was in the clutches of an abductor who has snatched me from my family for unmentionable purposes and has no intention of letting me go it would be torture enough and it would be pretty irrelevant to me what a bunch of strangers on the internet think happened to me.

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of course gem was insinuating people on the internet are the cruel ones, i wonder if gem read the sun stories where the parents told maddies siblings that the presents they got at xmas were from madeleine, you know fromthe evil badman who hadherand you know gem the one of the twins wanted to kill the abductor but her parents let her post pressies, talk about screwing your kids heads up hey gem?

Donjeta said:

Well I don't know. I think that if I was in the clutches of an abductor who has snatched me from my family for unmentionable purposes and has no intention of letting me go it would be torture enough and it would be pretty irrelevant to me what a bunch of strangers on the internet think happened to me.

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I'd probably agree if we were talking about an adult but this is a child who could have potentially been kept alive between the ages of 3-9+. She would have no idea how the media/internet etc works. That little ray of hope that someone might come rescue her would be totally dashed away with "look everyone thinks your parents killed you, no one's looking for you".

Steven Stayner's abductor told him all sorts of rubbish. In Madeleine's case the abductors would be able to back it up.

Don't underestimate the power of mental torture.

Just my opinion

Anyway, if an abductor wants to torment a child with the thought that people on the internet have given up hope an think s/he's dead he doesn't actually need to have any real people thinking so, he can just make stuff up, the child won't know the difference.