Conrad Murray trial -Day fifteen

And one more thang about CV's: I have read Shafer's, of course, and it was amazing but not surprising. This guy is a Physician among physicians -- very impressive.

I would love to see CM's CV. Where is it?? Any MD worth his salt has one....:dunno:

It's not clear if Murray will take the stand in his defense, but the evidence so far does not bode well for the Caribbean national.

He never met his father Rawle Andrews, a doctor in Houston Texas, until he came to the U.S. in 1978. He enrolled at Texas Southern University in 1980, where he graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude in three years. His father was beloved in his community for providing medical aid to the poor. Murray followed his footsteps, attending his father's alma mater, Meharry Medical College, in Nashville, Tennessee.

Murray continued his training at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and finished his residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. After specializing in cardiology at University of Arizona, he returned to California and became Associate Director for the international cardiology training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital. In 2000 Murray began his private practice, Global Cardiovascular Associates, in Las Vegas. In honor of his father's charitable example, Murray later opened a clinic in Houston, the Acres Homes Heart and Vascular Institute, to provide care to a poor and predominately African-American community.Perhaps Jackson, a renowned philanthropist himself, was drawn to Murray's philanthropic nature; or could it be that he needed a doctor who would treat him without question.The jury is still out on that one. Whatever the reason, Jackson chose Dr. Murray, who despite his professional success, was drowning in debt.

Murray had numerous tax liens, mortgage debt, lawsuits, and unpaid child support payments for children from extramarital relationships. He owed more than $400,000 in court decisions alone against his Las Vegas practice.

At $150,000 a month, overseeing Jackson's health would give Murray the financial lifeboat he needed. In June 2009, after working with Jackson for a month, Murray closed his Las Vegas practice.

"Because of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I had to make a most difficult decision to cease [the] practice of medicine indefinitely," he wrote his patients, unaware that just 10 days later he would be standing at the bedside of a dead Michael Jackson and subsequently dealing with the repercussions.

What seemed to have been Murray's big break ended in a most catastrophic situation, with Jackson dead and Murray now fighting to clear his name.

Reports say Jackson did not sign the contract with Murray before he died, leaving Murray unpaid for his work.Murray's defense says it was his philanthropic nature why he was subservient to Jackson's addiction. "His one big fault is that he could never turn down someone who needed his services," said his lawyer Ed Chernoff.

http://www.cnweeklynews.com/news/us-news/2970-dr-who
 
Cross-examination of Dr. Shafer by Defense Counsel on Friday, October 21, 2011[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SqFTF1G3Eg"]Conrad Murray-Trial - Day 15-Session 2 - YouTube[/ame]
 
“”Whereas sedative hypnotics gradually repress central nervous system and brain to make a person fall asleep, Propofol is a much more powerful and fast-acting anesthetic attaching to brain receptors more rapidly and slowing down signals to the heart and lungs at a much more extreme rate.””

( 1:06:00 mm)
Chernoff: I am not asking about your simulations. I am asking what did the Coroner say was Michael Jackson’s brain propofol level?

Dr. Shafer: I do not find a measurement of the Propofol level in the brain in the Coroner’s Report. (After this testimony by Dr. Shafer, Court was adjourned 'til Monday morning at 8:45 am PDT.)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

A) Propofol, lorazepam, midazolam, lidocaine, diazepam and nordiazepam identified in blood samples (see toxicology report for details).
B) Propofol, midazolam, lidocaine and ephedrine identified in urine.
C) Propofol and lidocaine identified in liver tissue.
D) Propofol identified in vitreous humor.
E) Lidocaine and propofol identified in stomach contents.

Mild diffuse brain swelling without herniation swelling.

I couldn’t paste the Summary of Positive Toxicological Findings chart that’s included in the autopsy report but it neither gives MJ’s propofol level in the brain.
 
And Good Morning to you, ocean! :wave:

Good post, thanks!

I also wanna say that I hope you and your ribs are feeling better and that you will :getwell: !

Yeppers, it's the old Baffle them with Bull**** routine which is weak, weak, weak, IMO, but it sometimes works. I'm sure some of the jurors were thinking, "What???"

And poor Shafer -- he and his colleague White do have lives after this trial -- I'm sure Shafer does not want to hurt White any more than he may have to. But he knew the situation and he decided to testify, I think, due to principles of good, sound medicine.

But Walgren will straighten it out on this re-direct and the others AND he will straighten it all out at closing. The PT will have the last word.
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Thankfully for the first time since Tuesday I was able to get some sleep last night and only woke up a couple of times when I got in the wrong position that compromised my rib area. So I AM improving. Thank you for your concern Borndem.

I no more believe there is a rift between Dr. Shafer and Dr. White. Both of them are too professional for that and it seems even the DT asked for DSs assistance which he gladly gave. White was to have called Walgren..the s...bag which is unprofessional because he should know that everyone has a job to do.

I do agree whatever is said during cross will be cleared up when the state stands back up again and uses the facts in evidence to do so.

IMO
 
“”Whereas sedative hypnotics gradually repress central nervous system and brain to make a person fall asleep, Propofol is a much more powerful and fast-acting anesthetic attaching to brain receptors more rapidly and slowing down signals to the heart and lungs at a much more extreme rate.””

( 1:06:00 mm)
Chernoff: I am not asking about your simulations. I am asking what did the Coroner say was Michael Jackson’s brain propofol level?

Dr. Shafer: I do not find a measurement of the Propofol level in the brain in the Coroner’s Report. (After this testimony by Dr. Shafer, Court was adjourned 'til Monday morning at 8:45 am PDT.)

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/images/02/09/mj_autopsy.pdf

A) Propofol, lorazepam, midazolam, lidocaine, diazepam and nordiazepam identified in blood samples (see toxicology report for details).
B) Propofol, midazolam, lidocaine and ephedrine identified in urine.
C) Propofol and lidocaine identified in liver tissue.
D) Propofol identified in vitreous humor.
E) Lidocaine and propofol identified in stomach contents.

Mild diffuse brain swelling without herniation swelling.

I couldn’t paste the Summary of Positive Toxicological Findings chart that’s included in the autopsy report but it neither gives MJ’s propofol level in the brain.

Thanks for the link Blue.

I will be very interested in what DS says about the brain not being checked for propofol although at that time I am sure they had no clue propofol would be the main COD. instead they were most likely looking for other medications he may have had in his system.

DS did say he did not need to know the amount to ascertain what it would have been. He said he can obtain that by the amount found else where at time of autopsy. If EC doesn't let him address this again I am sure Walgren will when he gets back up on direct.

IMO
 
I'd love for the jury to hear testimony somehow of how his malpractice insurance carrier denied his claim for help with legal expenses for this trial since his coverage doesn't cover anesthesiology as that is not what he is licensed to do. At least that is what I understood their position to be from articles I read some time ago.

IMO

Good post, well said. I'd love to see that too. He never should have been giving Michael anesthesia in the first place, and certainly not in a home setting. I hope this jury has heard enough from the 3 doctors who have testified that what Murray did was wrong on so many levels. They all 3 have stressed the point that you do not EVER leave a patient while they are getting anesthesia, you watch them every second. SO MANY things can go wrong.
 
It's not clear if Murray will take the stand in his defense, but the evidence so far does not bode well for the Caribbean national.

He never met his father Rawle Andrews, a doctor in Houston Texas, until he came to the U.S. in 1978. He enrolled at Texas Southern University in 1980, where he graduated magna *advertiser censored* laude in three years. His father was beloved in his community for providing medical aid to the poor. Murray followed his footsteps, attending his father's alma mater, Meharry Medical College, in Nashville, Tennessee.

Murray continued his training at the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota and finished his residency at Loma Linda University Medical Center in California. After specializing in cardiology at University of Arizona, he returned to California and became Associate Director for the international cardiology training program at Sharp Memorial Hospital. In 2000 Murray began his private practice, Global Cardiovascular Associates, in Las Vegas. In honor of his father's charitable example, Murray later opened a clinic in Houston, the Acres Homes Heart and Vascular Institute, to provide care to a poor and predominately African-American community.Perhaps Jackson, a renowned philanthropist himself, was drawn to Murray's philanthropic nature; or could it be that he needed a doctor who would treat him without question.The jury is still out on that one. Whatever the reason, Jackson chose Dr. Murray, who despite his professional success, was drowning in debt.

Murray had numerous tax liens, mortgage debt, lawsuits, and unpaid child support payments for children from extramarital relationships. He owed more than $400,000 in court decisions alone against his Las Vegas practice.

At $150,000 a month, overseeing Jackson's health would give Murray the financial lifeboat he needed. In June 2009, after working with Jackson for a month, Murray closed his Las Vegas practice.

"Because of a once in a lifetime opportunity, I had to make a most difficult decision to cease [the] practice of medicine indefinitely," he wrote his patients, unaware that just 10 days later he would be standing at the bedside of a dead Michael Jackson and subsequently dealing with the repercussions.

What seemed to have been Murray's big break ended in a most catastrophic situation, with Jackson dead and Murray now fighting to clear his name.

Reports say Jackson did not sign the contract with Murray before he died, leaving Murray unpaid for his work.Murray's defense says it was his philanthropic nature why he was subservient to Jackson's addiction. "His one big fault is that he could never turn down someone who needed his services," said his lawyer Ed Chernoff.

http://www.cnweeklynews.com/news/us-news/2970-dr-who

BBM

I find that quote alarming because what it is really saying CM will do anything even if it is unethical, grossly reckless or grossly negligent or very risky if a patient just asks.

That reminds me of Dr. Adams' attorney's statement where he said CM had been trying to get doctors in LV to administer propofol to MJ since 2007. That is a Dr. Feel Good kind of doctor that accommodates a patient instead of keeping their best interest in mind at all times.

The patient is not the one that is expected to adhere to the standard of care. Patients just cant ask doctors for something/anything and expect the doctors to cave.

Imo, that means CM should have never been a doctor in the first place if he is so weak he does what the patient wants done. That is more like a drug pusher to me who gives the person what they want regardless if it does them grave harm.

But nevertheless it was Murray's direct actions or inactions that day that caused MJs untimely death.

IMO
 
Thankfully for the first time since Tuesday I was able to get some sleep last night and only woke up a couple of times when I got in the wrong position that compromised my rib area. So I AM improving. Thank you for your concern Borndem.

I no more believe there is a rift between Dr. Shafer and Dr. White. Both of them are too professional for that and it seems even the DT asked for DSs assistance which he gladly gave. White was to have called Walgren..the s...bag which is unprofessional because he should know that everyone has a job to do.

I do agree whatever is said during cross will be cleared up when the state stands back up again and uses the facts in evidence to do so.

IMO

I, too, hope you are on the mend, Ocean!!

I personally think the prosecution has done a terrific job, and the defense is really floundering. I was a little miffed at some of the questions Chernoff was asking Dr. Shafer... it's plain that he was out of his league.
 
He's got horseshoes up "U" "NO" Where..as it appears there was Nothing in his clinics to prepare for emergencies..and relied on OTHERS to call 911 ..and YEP I would bet he would have blamed anyone or everyone IF something happened..
He is so unprofessional and unethical I do think he doesnt even know what the definition of "Protocol" is or what it means!..Whomever passed him to give him a license should be held to answer for their passing of such an incompetent!!
Surely he didnt forget everything he learned?? Ohh wait..Maybe he didnt care & understood all the BENEIFITS of his license!!..

Im sorry this case makes me infuriated by such unethical behaviors!!:furious::furious::maddening:

And of course it calls the question, "How many other incompetents are out there, meaning to do well, some of them, certainly; others merely wanting to be well-to-do. An operation or a procedure on me, my DH, my son, his wife, my next-door-neighbor, etc., etc.

Certainly, we now know, if we didn't before, to make sure the MD is board certified -- they do post their pedigrees in a noticeable place. And I'm a strong believer in recommendations from friends, and from an RN or two who shouldn't but will tell me about Dr. So & So. And a frank talk with the MD him/herself.

You medical professionals out there: Any other suggestions?
 
Good post, well said. I'd love to see that too. He never should have been giving Michael anesthesia in the first place, and certainly not in a home setting. I hope this jury has heard enough from the 3 doctors who have testified that what Murray did was wrong on so many levels. They all 3 have stressed the point that you do not EVER leave a patient while they are getting anesthesia, you watch them every second. SO MANY things can go wrong.

I think one thing they have learned very clearly is a person can stop breathing when under propofol. DS said it happens almost every time and he does the patients breathing for them.

That will drive it home for the jury, imo. They will think about themselves or loved ones and they will know why they have to be monitored at all times or something can go terribly wrong. They will never agree that it was acceptable for the patient to be left completely alone, imo.

IMO
 
I'd love for the jury to hear testimony somehow of how his malpractice insurance carrier denied his claim for help with legal expenses for this trial since his coverage doesn't cover anesthesiology as that is not what he is licensed to do. At least that is what I understood their position to be from articles I read some time ago.

IMO

Wowie, Zowie, Talina! First time I'm hearing this...any tips on where I can look for those articles? I'd like to find 'em for us. Google what? if no other ideas. I'm gonna start diggin'....

Thanks!
 
BBM

We know that CM played it fast & loose with MJ at his home -- alone. And altho they apparently (as far as we know, at least) were not certified or registered or professionally trained assistants/volunteers at his LV office, what was to keep him from training them himself to assist him in his office? He was a practicing cardiologist with patients -- cardiologists do procedures other than ECG's -- what would stop him? Just sayin' ....:waitasec:

I'm sure CM trained his "medical staff" to the procedures & routine the way he wanted everything done.
But because they weren't trained in an accredited school of nursing, they would not question him, as to
whether things were done correctly.

Plus, they did not have the fear of losing a nurses license if they did an unethical nursing procedure.
They just needed to do as CM said to do.
 
Wowie, Zowie, Talina! First time I'm hearing this...any tips on where I can look for those articles? I'd like to find 'em for us. Google what? if no other ideas. I'm gonna start diggin'....

Thanks!

HOUSTON (AP) -- An insurer for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death has asked a judge to rule that it is not responsible for the physician's legal bills in two high-profile court cases and fights to retain his medical license.

Medicus Insurance Co. argues that Dr. Conrad Murray's medical malpractice policy doesn't cover his defense costs because the cases stem from alleged criminal wrongdoing, according to documents filed Wednesday in state court in Houston. Murray's policy, which was purchased roughly a month before Jackson's death in June 2009, did not cover incidents involving general anesthesia, the company argues.


http://www.thegrio.com/entertainment/jackson-doctors-legal-bills-issue-in-texas-court.php
 
Thankfully for the first time since Tuesday I was able to get some sleep last night and only woke up a couple of times when I got in the wrong position that compromised my rib area. So I AM improving. Thank you for your concern Borndem.


Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Oceanblueeyes, It is so good to hear that you're feeling better and that your ribs are healing.

I hope you continue to still be with us as much as you've been during your healing time.
I love reading your many well written & informative opinions and facts re this trial!! :)
 
Respectfully snipped and bolded by me.

Oceanblueeyes, It is so good to hear that you're feeling better and that your ribs are healing.

I hope you continue to still be with us as much as you've been during your healing time.
I love reading your many well written & informative opinions and facts re this trial!! :)

Oh what a nice thing to say, Peace.:blushing: I sincerely thank you. Isn't it great to have so many posters who give such great opinions and helps us understand this case? We are fortunate that we have medical professionals here to assist us too but I think we have all learned so much about propofol.

LOL! Sometimes I think we know more about propofol and how it must be administered than Dr. Murray did.:floorlaugh:

I am on the mend but I know it will just take time and I have to accept that. I am not a clumsy person at all and this fall is so embarrassing to me.:blushing: The main thing it has done is limit what I can do and that is the part I hate. I had planned last week to do some trim painting and painting the walls in one of our guest bedrooms. LOL! Thats on hold for now!

IMO
 
Oh what a nice thing to say, Peace.:blushing: I sincerely thank you. Isn't it great to have so many posters who give such great opinions and helps us understand this case? We are fortunate that we have medical professionals here to assist us too but I think we have all learned so much about propofol.

LOL! Sometimes I think we know more about propofol and how it must be administered than Dr. Murray did.:floorlaugh:

I am on the mend but I know it will just take time and I have to accept that. I am not a clumsy person at all and this fall is so embarrassing to me.:blushing: The main thing it has done is limit what I can do and that is the part I hate. I had planned last week to do some trim painting and painting the walls in one of our guest bedrooms. LOL! Thats on hold for now!

IMO

Well, we're the lucky ones, that your trim isn't getting done!

And yes, I agree that we do have so many well informed people here,
that also write so well to get their points across.

I'm amazed that more WSers haven't been as interested in this trial and posted here.
But, then it's made it easier for me to catch-up when I've been away for dentist & doctor
appointments. Everything else has taken the back burner until the trial is over.

Except for tomorrow at 10 am (AZ time), I have another appointment that I can't cancel!
GRRRR It's with my financial advisor to see how soon I can/should do a bank transfer.
 
I'm sure CM trained his "medical staff" to the procedures & routine the way he wanted everything done.
But because they weren't trained in an accredited school of nursing, they would not question him, as to
whether things were done correctly.

Plus, they did not have the fear of losing a nurses license if they did an unethical nursing procedure.
They just needed to do as CM said to do.

I would think that since they did not have (as far as we know) proper registration or certification, they were probably called "assistants" but not "medical assistants" since I assume (I am not a med. professional, so forgive my huge ignorance) that title would imply and probably require some type of training/education. And surely, Shirley, even CM would not refer to them as "nurses." Who knoze?

And CM could always say, "Ms. Smith" or "Carol," etc. My internist simply calls his RN by her first name... but she does wear one of those usual name-tag things (please excuse that terminology, too) that says, Jane Doesmith, RN.

But also, it seems to me, the "assistants" could be sued or arrested or whatever the medical term for it is, if there is one, if anyone or any body of law or medical authority decided to do so. I don't see this happening, but wouldn't it be possible?

Oh, what a tangled web we weave. Just like any other lie, it just keeps snowballing and getting bigger, and more daring, and more dangerous, and more illegal, IMO. Mmmmmm. Bad, bad, bad.
 
Well, we're the lucky ones, that your trim isn't getting done!

And yes, I agree that we do have so many well informed people here,
that also write so well to get their points across.

I'm amazed that more WSers haven't been as interested in this trial and posted here.
But, then it's made it easier for me to catch-up when I've been away for dentist & doctor
appointments. Everything else has taken the back burner until the trial is over.

Except for tomorrow at 10 am (AZ time), I have another appointment that I can't cancel!
GRRRR It's with my financial adviser to see how soon I can/should do a bank transfer.

Good luck with your financial adviser tomorrow, Peace!

I believe the reason that more haven't posted is it is in the Hot Cases forum rather than in the Trials forum but this is just my opinion. In fact this is the first time I have seen that happen.

The Conrad Murray case is very active on other sites. One of the top discussed cases.

I haven't left the house in over a week but I must try to run errands for my hubby tomorrow. So I will also miss some of the testimony myself. I will probably be gone from 12-2 EST.

Hopefully Talina will post her great synopsis of what has been said and when I get back I can get caught up.

IMO
 
G'night, all you good WS'ers. :websleuther:


Relaxed and smooth dreamland to you, ocean!:cloud9:


A kiss goodnight :heartbeat: to Dr S. from his WS groooopies! :blushing: :crush: :heart:


Rest your hard-keying fingers, Talina. :eek:nline: Anutter big day tomorrow. :pillowfight2:


To sleep, perchance to dream for us all! :
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:
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::waitasec: :
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: :great:::crazy:


And so to bed....:eek:fftobed:
 

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