Girl with dark long hair and fur coat.

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I just read on the Facebook page that this girl is being identified on the Internet as Ellen Hover. I do not believe that this is Ellen Hover. Although the hair is similar, we must remember that this hair style was THE hairstyle of the 70's. I remember it being touted that Ted Bundy always killed women "with long dark hair parted in the middle" when, in fact, that's what girls looked like back then.
 
tang said:
I still believe that Carl's photo has the closer resemblance. If you study the differences in the space between the eye and the brow, Carl's subject is an exact match.
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I agree, the side by side posted upthread is uncanny resemblance IMO. The hair, texture, the hairline, the part, the way it falls from the part, the nose is dead on IMO and the general face shape and set of the features. Same in both MOO
 
For the record I remain convinced Hover is represented in the locker pictures both as fur-coat girl and singing girl. I'm not committed on whether the singing-girl shot in the apartment is from earlier the same day (with eyebrows yet untrimmed and hair not brushed out) or from some undocumented encounter circa 1971. It doesn't surprise me that here and there on the web a few other people see this.

Despite the guilty plea in New York (a purely tactical decision), Alcala isn't cooperating with authorities at all. He surely knows but isn't saying. Now the New York trial and sentencing are over. As in so many of the questions raised on these threads, we may never get the answer.
 
I can see why someone would think that Ellen Hover is the Grey Fur Coat Girl.

I am certain in my own mind that they are not the same person, but they do look similar in a lot of respects.

I am absolutely certain though, that the "singing girl" is neither Ellen Hover, nor the GFCG.
 
CarlK90245 said:
I can see why someone would think that Ellen Hover is the Grey Fur Coat Girl.

I am certain in my own mind that they are not the same person, but they do look similar in a lot of respects.

I am absolutely certain though, that the "singing girl" is neither Ellen Hover, nor the GFCG.
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I agree. I see definite resemblances too, but notice the differences. If I showed you a photo of myself from the 70's, you would probably throw me into that mix. :)
 
Carl's match up is the absolute best I've seen on this entire website to date. My money is on his match up. Either that or she has a doppleganger. And norest said that this was the hairdo of the 70's. Soooooo true.....
 
Since I first made a side-by-side of Singing Girl and a very grainy portrait of Hover, a better quality version of the Hover picture has been published. The extreme similarity still holds up.

SingerHover2.jpg


It's amazing almost nobody else has said they see anything going on in these two pictures.
 
Posted on another thread already, but it belongs here, yet another Hover-Fur Coat side-by-side. So far, they all work for me.

Hover-FurCoat--NewLook.jpg


Here's one that *I THINK* hasn't been posted before.

Hover-UID.jpg


While WF is overall rather similar, and has identical hair, there's no direct evidence she's ever been a crime victim at all. Hover is a known victim of Alcala and would absolutely have been photographed by him.
 
I'm willing to bet good money that Ellen Hover was singing girl, but fur coat girl just does not look like Ellen Hover
 
WildHuncher said:
Since I first made a side-by-side of Singing Girl and a very grainy portrait of Hover, a better quality version of the Hover picture has been published. The extreme similarity still holds up.

SingerHover2.jpg


It's amazing almost nobody else has said they see anything going on in these two pictures.
Click to expand...


But that photo appears to be among those photos that were taken during the 1968-71 timeframe when Alcala was living in NYC and attending NYU film school.

Ellen Hover was killed in 1977, when Alcala was on a one-week trip to NYC to visit relatives.

Singing girl also has a higher forehead and higher hairline.
 
WildHuncher said:
While WF is overall rather similar, and has identical hair, there's no direct evidence she's ever been a crime victim at all. Hover is a known victim of Alcala and would absolutely have been photographed by him.
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Out of all of the Alcala photos that were released to the public, none of them were ever proven to be crime victims.
 
CarlK90245 said:
But that photo appears to be among those photos that were taken during the 1968-71 timeframe when Alcala was living in NYC and attending NYU film school.

Ellen Hover was killed in 1977, during a one-week trip to NYC to visit relatives in NYC.

Singing girl also has a higher forehead and higher hairline.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure the seeming forehead size difference isn't an artifact of viewing angle and the scrunching up of her face by forceful singing.

Hover would have been 17 in 1971. It's not impossible. Very unclear what's going on in that picture as far as how she got there or who else is present.

Singing girl also works as fur coat girl with an eyebrow trim and a bit of re-brushing. She doesn't have to be younger, although she does look sort of younger. (And nothing so far identified in that one apartment setup dates after 1971.)

Singer-FurCoat-1.jpg
 
CarlK90245 said:
Out of all of the Alcala photos that were released to the public, none of them were ever proven to be crime victims.
Click to expand...

That's the official line, but it has a ring of "Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?" ;)
 
The difference in hairlines is very obvious between Singing Girl and GFCG. The difference is much more than what could be explained by camera angle differences or facial muscle contraction.

And the camera angle is about the same in your comparison of Singing Girl and Ellen Hover. In both photos the camera is at about forehead level.

Scrunching up the face, if anything, would make the muscles of her forehead contract, not expand. But not enough to make her hairline look lower.
 
CarlK90245 said:
The difference in hairlines is very obvious between Singing Girl and GFCG. The difference is much more than what could be explained by camera angle differences or facial muscle contraction.

And the camera angle is about the same in your comparison of Singing Girl and Ellen Hover. In both photos the camera is at about forehead level.

Scrunching up the face, if anything, would make the muscles of her forehead contract, not expand. But not enough to make her hairline look lower.
Click to expand...

I'll punt on the hairline, but the rest of the features snap in too well to dismiss it all as coincidence. It just flat looks like her to me.
 
CarlK90245 said:
Out of all of the Alcala photos that were released to the public, none of them were ever proven to be crime victims.
Click to expand...

After all the work we have put into these pictures I have come to the conclusion that except for the person bending over backwards, none of these people are his victims. I think he either destroyed pictures of victims or kept them hidden in an unknown location.
 
We must also remember that there were close to 2000 photos total. We have only seen a fraction of them. I have no doubt that there were victims within this large group of photos. And, I do know of other cases that he is suspected in, so I am hopeful that more will come out.

As far as the photo of singing girl and girl in the fur coat, besides the fact that they don't look like Hover to me, Alcala was suspected in Hovers murder decades ago. Her photo would not have been in the group released to the public for identification by LE as I'm positive that every agency investigating this would know what Ellen Hover looked like and this photo would not have been included. In addition, when Alcala was tried for Hover's murder, this photo was never used as evidence that he knew her, and it would have been used absolutely if it was her.
 
norest4thewicked said:
In addition, when Alcala was tried for Hover's murder, this photo was never used as evidence that he knew her, and it would have been used absolutely if it was her.
Click to expand...

Alcala short-circuited the proceedings by entering a guilty plea. To my own knowledge, the public has never learned how much information the prosecution had and what their presentation would have looked like had the trial proceeded in contested mode.
 
CarlK90245 said:
2878942350045078242S600x600Q851_zps4e7068fb.jpg
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Wow! This is amazing! CarlK, you are GREAT! Heard anything more about WF?

If WF is alive and this is not her in the photo, I will be shocked!

However, I would like for you all to compare this lady, too; http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/segall_eddy.html
segall_eddy.jpg


We do know that Alcala was allowed to visit New York in 1977, he pled guilty to Ellen Hover's murder in July 1977 (I haven't found an exact date that she went missing, just July 1977 and bones found that same year) we also know that he frequented New Hampshire in the years he went by "John Berger" so he was familiar with the place. Could he have abducted Segall and murdered her, too? She looks alot like this Fur Coat girl, I think....... Her father is still alive, living in Florida, wonder if he should be allowed to view the photo and give an opinion?
 
No. I never heard anything else one way or the other re: WF.

And yes, Eddie Segall does like the grey fur coat girl. Of all the MP's who have been compared to her, Eddie looks the most like her. I can't see anything in her facial features or structure that look conclusively different. The low part of the bridge of the nose (AKA the "Nasion") might be positioned slightly higher (with respect to the eyes) on TGFCG. Her upper lip is shaped slightly different. But that might just be a difference in how she applied her lipstick. Their eyebrows curve slightly different. But facial expression greatly affects how the eyebrows look. I still think WF looks more like her, but Eddie does look alot like her too.

Eddie disappeared on 15-Jun-1977, and Ellen Hover was LKA on 15-Jul-77. Alcala was on the east coast for only a week, so it seems that the timeline wouldn't work out.

I am presuming that the photo of TGFCG was taken between 1968 and 1971. But I don't know for sure. I don't think that the photo is from those that he took in California. But I don't know that for certain either.
 
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