Sightings of Ms. Halbach's SUV (the bus driver, et al)

stephsb · Jan 15, 2016

MaxManning said:
We don't know much about Chuck or Earl's activity, but I think it's possible to glean from other things that we know that Chuck and Earl are the ones in the customer buildings and might have been working that day assisting customers. It was a Monday, so I'd expect that they might be working and therefore that might rule them out for the critical time period. 2:45 - 5:00pm

Bobby and Scott are a bit more free wheeling in all this as both of them are potentially near teresa at 2:45 - 5:00 -- there is no iron clad alibi there. So if a suv did leave the property like the propane guy suggested. Who could of that been ? Bobby ? Scott ? Chuck ? Earl ? -- or teresa by herself ?

I keep mentioning the propane guy, and I'm not saying I'm confident of his sighting. Just kind of questioning the possibilities, if that was her suv he saw.

CA has no alibi according to Avery's appeal. I would imagine even if one or both of them were working, it wouldn't be hard for them to get away if they needed to. Fabian did state he arrived a little before 5PM, and at that time EA was working, so you definitely could be correct there. I have found nothing that states what CA was doing during the time.

IF the propane guys sighting of the SUV is legit, and the sighting was between 3:30-4 that would eliminate BD, unless Brendan and Blaine are lying about BD being home and asleep when they got home at 3:45. The rest of them are all fair game IMO.

MaxManning · Jan 15, 2016

stephsb said:
CA has no alibi according to Avery's appeal. I would imagine even if one or both of them were working, it wouldn't be hard for them to get away if they needed to. Fabian did state he arrived a little before 5PM, and at that time EA was working, so you definitely could be correct there. I have found nothing that states what CA was doing during the time.

IF the propane guys sighting of the SUV is legit, and the sighting was between 3:30-4 that would eliminate BD, unless Brendan and Blaine are lying about BD being home and asleep when they got home at 3:45. The rest of them are all fair game IMO.

Agreed. I am speculating completely about EA, RF, CA. Where do you see Fabian's statements ?

stephsb · Jan 15, 2016

Avery's Appeal, the 2010 one, in the Statement of Facts section. All it says is that he arrived at the junkyard a little before 5pm and EA was working.

Sarah · Mar 19, 2016

OK – Bringing a few bits and pieces over to contribute here because it’s quite hard to discuss them properly in the confines of either of the ‘guilty / not guilty’ threads.
I admit that I STILL haven’t got up enough motivation to look in detail into the latest information in the cell phones thread (frankly it really hurts my head) but there may be something here that helps with confirming her final movements.

The sighting of her photographing the cow called into the tip line :

It’s mentioned in the Remiker/Weigart phone call that can be found here : http://stevenaverycase.com/phone-calls-between-investigators/#sthash.XF9z47aZ.ELa1wH1T.dpbs

Wiegert: I did get a call last night, there was a Knutsen, from Valders actually said she... she claims... she left she left me a voicemail which I haven't got, dispatch called me, she claimed, allegedly...she claims... she was on her way home and sees Teresa... and she sees Teresa pulled over taking a picture of a cow.
Remiker: Huh...she know Teresa?
Wiegert: No just seen on the news.. all this kind of crap, I'm going to get my ducks in a row and drive up to Valders

Not sure that we have any more than that and I can’t find any details about it being followed up.
I've found two interesting (potentially) related pieces though.

1) Already posted elsewhere, but this 2005 article adds potential credibility to the sighting : http://host.madison.com/news/local/...al&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share

Relevant section :
"I'll never forget her genuineness, her sincerity, and how she honestly loved people," Kluth said Saturday. "And she was such a faithful friend. I remember once I had to visit dairy farms for my job and I called Teresa and asked if she would go along and take some photographs. And there she was with her camera tromping through manure with me. It was just so cool to have a friend like that, who would laugh and say, I don't care where we are or what we're doing, I'm with you and that's what is important.' "

It seems such a bizarre activity for TH to have been sighted doing even with her farming upbringing, but the above lends it a bit more credibility IMO. I can imagine her thinking her friend might get a kick out of seeing such a photo especially if it was a particular breed or reminiscent of something from back at that time. Kind of : “Hey, I spotted this and I thought of you. Remember when we were out on those dairy farms, tromping through manure to photograph those cows”

2) From SA’s 2009 appeal.

Part 1 : http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery documents 1-22.pdf
Part 2 : http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wkow/newsdocs/avery document page 23 +.pdf

Page 51/52 (in the context of CA ‘harrassing’ female customers)

The same Sheriff Department’s report contains a statement by Judith Knutsen that she bought a part for her car through the Avery Salvage Yard. A few months later in October of 2005 the Avery business towed her car. On October 30 2005 Knutsen’s supervisor gave her a note that she should go to the property the next day to pick up the belongings from her car. She did not go. On November 2 2005 she phoned the business and spoke with Charles Avery. Charles told her that he had been to her house the previous day to drop off her belongings and then proceeded to ask Knutsen out for dinner. She refused. Then on November 4 2005 Charles went to Knutsen’s home with her personal belongings which he said he had sorted from her car.

Could this be the same Knutsen who saw TH photographing the cow or is it just a strange coincidence?
This is completely new to me, so although a few thoughts immediately come to mind, I haven’t really formed a strong opinion yet.

missy1974 · Mar 19, 2016

I don't think we have more than what you put in your post about the "cow sighting" Sarah. I also agree that the story her friend told to the journalist lends some truth to the sighting. Although.... being a 'farm' girl and a photographer.... I would not be surprised to find out that she pulled over to take pictures all the time, not just to photograph animals, but the landscape... the sun... etc. I've lived in the prairies my whole life... and sometimes when we are driving, the wildlife and landscape or sunrise/sunset gives me that feeling of awe.... and hubby takes pics all the time, and he's not a photographer lol

I would like to see more of that report.... and we might just be able too.... SkippTopp commented on reddit that he is waiting for the Calumet County report. If I understand correctly.... it will be the ongoing report from officers, which should include some information about this and other interviews conducted by Calumet officers. On that note... another poster from reddit, and she has a website (the one that has the recorded calls), requested more calls and some other information and was denied after Calumet county Sheriff's Dept consulted with the DOJ (basically saying they didn't think it was a good idea to open any evidence and make copies knowing that there is upcoming legal action) interesting, right? LOL

Knutsen.... I'm not sure how many are in the area, and if there is one thing I have learned while researching this case, it is that just because they have the same last name, they may not know each other... but then again, they could be sisters or the same person LOL It would be very coincidental if it is the same person though.

missy1974 · Mar 19, 2016

After I posted the above post, I went over to the other place where I read..... SkippTopp just posted that some of his requests have been denied too and posted a copy of the letter he received...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/CASO-Records-Request-Response_redacted.pdf

He IS getting the November 4th flyover DVD though!!! My guess is that they did not get good footage of the yard though because I can't believe that neither side used it if they could see (or not see) the RAV4.... but anything is possible LOL

Limaes · Mar 21, 2016

I believe the sighting of the girl photographing a cow was mistaken identity. Can't think why she would do that considering there were plenty on her parents dairy farm.

There is legal action pending in this case so it is perfectly understandable why they wouldn't want to be releasing evidence to Joe Schmoe.

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Limaes · May 1, 2016

It is interesting going back over topics since the release of the CASO Docs.

The Propane Guy (DV) was at AA & DA's filling the tank at 1-1.30pm.

The bus driver (LB) Went to the command post on the 7th to report she had seen a woman taking photos but could not recall what day. Only that it was either Mon, Tue or Wed at approximately 3.30pm. She also claimed it (the van) was parked at the intersection.

Robert Fabian and EA both state independantly that he arrived at the Salvage Yard at around 4.30pm.

It still remains that BoD was the last person (other than SA) to see Teresa alive at approximately 2.45. This fits with what she told DP at 2.27pm. She was on her way to the Avery Salvage Yard and she was never seen again.

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missy1974 · May 1, 2016

Two different propane guys. One filling Avery's propane (did not testify) Propane guy that said that he saw the SUV was filling his truck at the end of Avery Road, near the highway. (did testify)

Limaes · May 1, 2016

missy1974 said:
Two different propane guys. One filling Avery's propane (did not testify) Propane guy that said that he saw the SUV was filling his truck at the end of Avery Road, near the highway. (did testify)

*forehead slap* blonde moment

True, however the other guy never stated it was hers. He never reported it to LE and even stated it may not have been hers. So to this day, no one other than SA seen her leave the property.

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ZOOL · May 1, 2016

MaxManning said:
Avery Road is NOT the Long Road. Looking on google maps and comparing that image from the link above will help you see that the Long Road is a right turn off of Avery Road.

Go into satellite view and compare with the image of the map at the link i posted above. The Long Road is not even a road on google maps, you can only see visually in satellite view.

I agree with MaxManning. The Long Road to which Blaine refers in his statemets is the dirt and gravel road leading from Rectangle A to Rectangle B (east/west) in the image below. Avery Road is the north/south road leading into Rectangle A from the intersection of Rt 147. (*Note: The image below is from the Manitowoc County Advanced Access GIS Viewer).

The bus driver, Lisa Buchner, testifies that she drops the boys off and then executes a turn-around to return to Rt 147. In my mind, that means that she finds ample turning radius somewhere within Rectangle A.

Blaine states that the boys have a 5 minute walk down the "long road" to their home. This would be a walk from Rectangle A to Rectangle B. Which in the illustration actually represents 12932 Avery Road, or Steven Avery's 2005 residence where Barb Janda's "junky van" was located. (The boys' home on the other hand is located at 12930 Avery Road, next door to 12932).

So the purpose of this image is to illustrate how difficult it would have been for Lisa Buchner to have distinguished details from her vantage point about the "photographer" on Monday, 10/31/05.

It is logical therefore to conclude that LB's testimony is clouded by her memories of prior days.

BigCityAccountant · May 1, 2016

ZOOL said:
I agree with MaxManning. The Long Road to which Blaine refers in his statemets is the dirt and gravel road leading from Rectangle A to Rectangle B (east/west) in the image below. Avery Road is the north/south road leading into Rectangle A from the intersection of Rt 147. (*Note: The image below is from the Manitowoc County Advanced Access GIS Viewer).

The bus driver, Lisa Buchner, testifies that she drops the boys off and then executes a turn-around to return to Rt 147. In my mind, that means that she finds ample turning radius somewhere within Rectangle A.

Blaine states that the boys have a 5 minute walk down the "long road" to their home. This would be a walk from Rectangle A to Rectangle B. Which in the illustration actually represents 12932 Avery Road, or Steven Avery's 2005 residence where Barb Janda's "junky van" was located. (The boys' home on the other hand is located at 12930 Avery Road, next door to 12932).

So the purpose of this image is to illustrate how difficult it would have been for Lisa Buchner to have distinguished details from her vantage point about the "photographer" on Monday, 10/31/05.

It is logical therefore to conclude that LB's testimony is clouded by her memories of prior days.

Wow Zool. You maybe onto something there! Would the van have been blocked by the trees to see the van from Route 147 or coming up Avery Road? Can you show on your map where the van was located? Seems to me there is not a clear view of the Janda house from any vantage point in rectangle A. I might have to revisit that GIS viewer.

BigCityAccountant · May 1, 2016

I checked out the GIS Viewer again. It has a feature for aerial view for 2005. Is this the van that I circled?

Anyone know what the building is that is directly south (in the picture) of the Janda residence? Could this be the ice shack?

ZOOL · May 1, 2016

It definitely looks like the "junky van". Notice how the front of the vehicle is pointed towards Avery Road. I believe this is consistent with the exhibit photos #60 and #61
Not sure what the image is next to the van. It does not appear in either exhibit. When you reference the "ice shack", are you suggesting the image near the number 209? I suppose that structure is perhaps a building and therefore a strong candidate for the "ice shack". It is possible to use the GIS viewer to zoom in on that structure.....

ZOOL · May 1, 2016

BigCityAccountant said:
I checked out the GIS Viewer again. It has a feature for aerial view for 2005. Is this the van that I circled?

Anyone know what the building is that is directly south (in the picture) of the Janda residence? Could this be the ice shack?

BAC, can you give explicit directions on how to obtain the 2005 image you linked. I can not find the feature for an aerial 2005 on GIS viewer. How do you do it?

BigCityAccountant · May 1, 2016

ZOOL said:
BAC, can you give explicit directions on how to obtain the 2005 image you linked. I can not find the feature for an aerial 2005 on GIS viewer. How do you do it?

ha,ha ha, ha ha....Top right hand corner "Image Layers" How the heck do you zoom in on that building? Nevermind, I did zoom in--I didn't realize it. It is hazy or pixeled. I can't tell what it is and its not there in the current view.

missy1974 · May 1, 2016

here is what they called an "animated photo", exhibit 93, you can see the van (a black rectangle lol) to the west of the roundabout in front of Barbs.

ZOOL · May 1, 2016

BigCityAccountant said:
ha,ha ha, ha ha....Top right hand corner "Image Layers" How the heck do you zoom in on that building? Nevermind, I did zoom in--I didn't realize it. It is hazy or pixeled. I can't tell what it is and its not there in the current view.

ho, ho ho, ho ho... After you select the "image layers", use the "palm" to reposition your image so you can center on the ice shack. Then click the lower "zoom in" magnifier and then reposition the "crosshairs" over the shack, and drag a rectangle around it. When you release your drag, the program will automatically zoom into your object by x-amount.

I captured the following image of the shack. Then used SnapTool to create an upload.

ZOOL · May 1, 2016

Using Missy's "animated photo exhibit 93", I believe that the red-circled item is the "ice shack".

ZOOL · May 1, 2016

BigCityAccountant said:
... Would the van have been blocked by the trees to see the van from Route 147 or coming up Avery Road? Can you show on your map where the van was located? Seems to me there is not a clear view of the Janda house from any vantage point in rectangle A. I might have to revisit that GIS viewer.

I agree, BAC. Buchner would have had extreme difficulty seeing any activity around the Janda van. Which in my original image would be located in the exact 90-degree right hand corner of B. Not only is it a 2/10s mile view from the intersection of the Long Road and Avery Road, but it is also obstructed by a number of trees etcetera. On the other hand, Buchner (I believe) said in Re-Direct that she saw the photographer "at the intersection". Which would be around the area of A, down to the end of the first line of trees on the south side of the Long Road.

Sightings of Ms. Halbach's SUV (the bus driver, et al)

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