The more I dwell on this case, the more I am really panicked about the American system of justice. I do not understand how this jury could take away such a different view than those that watched it from outside the courtroom. I always felt that the system of justice was flawed but fair. I no longer have this confidence. In fact, quite the opposite, I now believe that the system is completely unfair and authoritarian. This case has changed me and changed my attitude toward the U.S..
The Verdict is In - post your thoughts here
- Thread starter Salem
- Start date
- Status
Tink56
MOO...IMO
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 2,640
- Reaction score
- 25,141
I do not agree with this opinion. Probably one of the most compeling witnesses of the NC crowd who seemed to have the most veracity with both sides posting on WS was Dr. Theresa Hackeling. Her affidavit is among the most compelling.
Dr. Hackeling states that NC told her that she N was afraid of BC. That's why she had been sleeping in the girls' room. Dr. Hackeling refers to BC as having a narcissistic personality, being selfish, and demeaning of NC. She says that prior to his attempt to change his relationship after their decision to divorce (really a goofy concept, IMO) he had little time for the girls or NC. BC went on several European trips other than infamous French Connection and did not contact his wife during any of these trips.
It's starts on p. 37 in the following link. As a side note, Dr. H is a graduate of Harvard and was awarded the Harvard-Radcliffe Women's Foundation award for soccer.
She states that her husband tried to establish a relationship with BC as NC and his wife were becoming very close friends. He told his wife after each time that he couldn't create any kind of connection/friendship with BC.
http://www.wral.com/asset/news/local/2008/07/23/3258895/1216912148-Plaintiff_affidavits2.pdf
The other affidavits on the site discuss the well known issues. The truth is simple. BC was controlling and was enraged that he couldn't get his "wife" to obey him.
Okay, this is a PERFECT example of what I am talking about. To begin with, her title of "Dr." means NOTHING, because if she WAS testifying as a "professional, she couldn't talk about what her and NC talked about. Second, many of the things listed in the affidavit are PATENTLY false, which indicates that she was not getting a TRUE account of what was going on in the household. Let me go number by number:
1, 2 and 3 are just statements about the doctor. But in number three, she states her PROFESSIONAL opinion about a MENTAL disorder, after NOT EVER speaking with BC on a professional level.
4. States he didn;t call for a dinner party cancellation (unknown) and that it was told to her that he would got away for WEEKS at a time for work and NEVER call. But we KNOW he called her, we have the phone records.
5. BC lied about the affair. Okay, yes, he did. But in order to remain CONSTANT, and provide a FAIR "standard", both were guilty of lying about an affair (NOT bashing NC, simply stating a fact).
6. SHe was told BC called NC a "dumb {blank}". Again, NO witnesses, just second hand info.
7. "stole the passports". How do you steal something you OWN? And we know NC kept the passports locked in the car. Wasn't she doing the same thing? Again, NOT bashing NC, just holding her to the same standard. If SHE didn't "steal" the passports, neither did he.
8. BC was a loner. SO WHAT?
9. "took her off the credit cards and refused to give her money for gas or food" we KNOW this is false.
10. "School crying" issue. NOT uncommon for youngsters to get upset, and someone has to take the kid to school. BC relented and let NC drive her, then HE carried her in. All three of mine cried at the beginning of school, its NORMAL. Yet this "doctor" sees something ominous in it.
11. House in shambles when she got back from vaca. Okay, so he wasn't the greatest housekeeper. Again, means NOTHING.
12, 13 and 14, personal opinion, based SOLELY on the words of NC.
Now, I HOPE I do not get banned for the above. I am NOT bashing NC, she did what MOST couples do in a pending divorce situation, she started to draw in a circle of friends. Nothing wrong with that, but NOTHING listed above indicates ANYTHING out of the ordinary.
I think that it's possible that very compelling evidence was presented during the times that the camera was turned off. That's the only way that I can make sense of the verdict. If the defense had been allowed to present rebuttal testimony, things may have been different. What causes me some concern is so many people were surprised at the verdict. Usually, in cases like this, there is a general consensus about the verdict with a few stragglers on the other side of the fence, but this case almost has a majority on the other side of the fence.
Tink56
MOO...IMO
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2008
- Messages
- 2,640
- Reaction score
- 25,141
I posted the link to Dr. Hackeling's affidavit solely for the fact that she stated that NC was afraid of BC. She stated that NC was done, IHO, with the attempt to cohabitate.
In other words, NC was afraid and not going to go along with the charade of making things work, as evidenced by her call to the realtor saying she wanted an apartment right away.
I used Dr. Hackeling's testimony because on the day she testified many folks, on both sides of the issues, found her direct and candid.
I am not addressing the other issues you raised since I already know where many of the BDDI crowd stand on those topics.
:twocents:
Okay, now seriously, and I am TRULY interested in the answer. You are obviously in the BDI crowd. How do you take ONE part of a person's statement and believe it, when a MAJORITY of the parts of that SAME statement have been PROVEN to be false? Keep in mind, I am NOT saying the doctor lied, merely that her perception was based on information that we KNOW, for a FACT was untrue. The lack of phone calls. Well, we KNOW he called daily, they have the phone logs. The failure to give her money. We KNOW that to be false, there is PROOF that he was giving her $300 a week up until the last week. We KNOW she had gas for her car, because it was pointed out that he followed her to the gas station and put it IN the car (one cannot argue that he was "controlling" by putting the gas in her car himself, then that he was controlling by NOT giving her gas, they are mutually exclusive events).
I am really curious how you get past those false statements and believe the one you feel is true, but is neither provable one way or the other.
Danielle59
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2011
- Messages
- 878
- Reaction score
- 0
I am only going to make a couple of comments since this post was already answered quite comprehensively. Dr. H is an emergency medicine doctor, not a psychiatrist, where she was educated makes no difference, she is still an ER doc, not mental health.
The realtor said on the stand he never heard BC use vulgarity towards NC.
BC's passport copy is in his reply to the affidavits against him and he didn't travel out of the country that often, but it was his job when he did, was he to have told them he couldn't go?
I agree completely and the same goes for BC. None of us knows what each felt. Yet, it is assumed that everyone knows exactly what each felt or did not felt. Perhaps it is best that we all quit trying to figure out what each one felt, said, or did.
NCEast
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2011
- Messages
- 4,217
- Reaction score
- 7
I agree.
I am finished with this case/trial. I have been reading along mostly since the verdict was announced. There is very little point in debating the evidence, the personalities, the issues now.
I will not post any more to this thread. I have enjoyed the heck out of interacting with most of you. I have also enjoyed reading, for the most part, both sides of all the issues.
I wish each of you well.
NCEast, Look forward to seeing you over at JY trial. Honestly, I doubt we will differ in opinion on that one. It has been a pleasure to get to chat with you.
Doesn't seem to matter much if BC was abusive, rude, controlling, an SOB etc. he killed NC. He was tried, judged to be guilty of the murder of his wife and transported to jail.
It no longer matters what the neighbors said.
Can't think of a much worse thing to be called than a murderer! JMO
It no longer matters what the neighbors said.
Can't think of a much worse thing to be called than a murderer! JMO
Has anyone followed a case in the past where a defendant was found guilty, gone to jail, and then has had such a vigorous defense continue by posters/trial watchers continue after the verdict? If so who is/was the defendant? And then has that defendant ever won an appeal?
stilettos
Former Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2009
- Messages
- 5,832
- Reaction score
- 8
:banghead:I literally cannot believe that anyone could defend the manner in which this man was treating the Mother of his children. 300 bucks a week and driving behind her to put gas in her car so he did not have to allow her further access to their marital assets? I am stunned.
Yeah, none of this will matter until and if an appellate court deems the trial court in error and orders a retrial. While this case has some powerful points for appellate court to hear, this process will be slow and difficult. While being a murderer is an awful thing, failure to allow a defendant due opportunity and legal right to question his accusers and offer just rebuttal may be a breach of our constitutional rights. May this never happen to any of us.
sunshine05
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2011
- Messages
- 1,914
- Reaction score
- 1
Take care, NCEast.
I honestly do not know what the answer to this question is. While there are BDDI posters, there are posters and a group of individuals (I think quite a few) who believe the judicial system was biased towards the prosecution. Whether that would make a difference or not, this group is outraged not necessarily that BC was found guilty but the manner in which the trial was conducted. IMOO
These individuals get called BDDI'ers when in reality they are not avid BDDIers but pro justice, for lack of a better term. I think the sheer number of viewers (most ever) would indicate a tremendous interest in this case. There have been cases overturned because of the Innocence Commission but they were after the fact. Lastly, the recent knowledge of problems with LE and Forensic Laboratories definitely has increased the interest in all cases and been a major factor in questioning our judicial and Law enforcement community. I have never seen anything like this before. IMOO
I think the facts show they were in debt big time. BC's check for family law assistance bounced for lack of funds. I believe they were forced to go on a tight budget. Perhaps you can question his manner of doing it, but someone needed to tighten the belt. No one can say that NC or the kids seemed to be starving or not well maintained. IMOO
Maja
Seeker of Truth
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2008
- Messages
- 679
- Reaction score
- 1
Studying to take my driver's license test tomorrow, now that I'm an NC citizen. I was looking through the book (attached) and noticed this excerpt in Chapter 7:
Transfer of License Plates
License plates can be transferred from one
vehicle to another of the same category provided
ownership is in the same name and insurance
coverage has been continuous.
Made me wonder if BC switched plates from his own vehicles. Not sure what the intent/motive would be. Just had a thought. It's crazy past all this speculation, I know. The missing bolt thing crossed my mind while trying to study for this silly test!! Gosh, this case sure got to me.
Perhaps it's PTTS (Post Traumatic Trial Syndrome). LOL!!
www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/drivershandbook/download/NCDL_English.pdf
Transfer of License Plates
License plates can be transferred from one
vehicle to another of the same category provided
ownership is in the same name and insurance
coverage has been continuous.
Made me wonder if BC switched plates from his own vehicles. Not sure what the intent/motive would be. Just had a thought. It's crazy past all this speculation, I know. The missing bolt thing crossed my mind while trying to study for this silly test!! Gosh, this case sure got to me.
Perhaps it's PTTS (Post Traumatic Trial Syndrome). LOL!!
www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_services/drivershandbook/download/NCDL_English.pdf
Even with all you said in THIS case IMO the right person was convicted.
Perhaps this can be a window into future cases for LE, experts,
forensic laboratories and so on.
Appreciate your thoughts TY.
I am literally stunned that someone thinks providing a car, a roof over her head, food, $300 cash a week, as well as gas for her car is somehow "not enough". They were virtually BANKRUPT, due to BOTH of their spending habits. At some point, something has to give. After paying all the bills, she was getting 80% of their remaining income (per the submitted financials) in cash. So the MOST he could have given her was $400 a week, as that was all that was left. They had tuition for the child in school, two mortgages, taxes, insurance, car payments, etc etc.
Have to be honest, if giving someone $300 a week and putting gas in the car is "emotional abuse", I wish someone would emotionally abuse me (tongue in cheek).
FTR, I NEVER saw ANY statements where it was PROVEN that NC said she felt emotionally abused, so this is a bash of the OTHER people, NOT her.
- Status