A few questions

~n/t~ said:

Their arguidos status was lifted and the case was archived pending further evidence. That's not the same as declaring one innocent of a crime. Where are you getting this info from?

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haden said:

So why they were not made arguidos again, once the case have been reopened by the PJ?

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~n/t~ said:

The case is still under investigation. Nobody has been declared arguido yet

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haden said:

So you are waiting for them to be made arguidos again? :floorlaugh:

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~n/t~ said:

Did any of the acquaintances check on the kids? I don't recall who were the "friends" and who were "acquaintances"

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~n/t~ said:

Their arguidos status was lifted and the case was archived pending further evidence. That's not the same as declaring one innocent of a crime. Where are you getting this info from?

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brit1981 said:

I can't remember which was which, but some were friends of friends who they had only met once or twice at weddings etc. One was the mother of these friends and I don't think she knew then before the holiday.

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...snip..

4078 "Before we go on to the holiday, can you just give me some background in relation to how you know the McCANNs in the first place?"

Reply "Yeah, erm, primarily the connection is through, erm, Russell and Jane, erm, Russell was Rachael and mine Best Man and we've been good friends since we went to University together in Leicester and originally he went out with a girl in my year called Ann SMITH and then when I was looking for accommodation Ann mentioned that he had a space in his house, so there was two girls, Russell, Paul and myself and we made up the house and we sort of shared the rental at a house there and we've sort of been friends ever since and then, as I say, he was Best Man for Rachael and I when we got married in nineteen ninety-nine, erm, and we stayed in contact pretty much since. We've been on hol... well we'll probably come onto holiday and stuff later. But through Russell I know David, who was also at Leicester Medical School, and Fiona WEBSTER, who is also, erm, Fiona PAYNE as she is now, erm, it was also at Leicester Medical School and they were two years behind me, so they graduated in ninety-four and I graduated in ninety-two, they know Gerry and Kate or they knew them on a much sort of more friendly level than, than I did. Erm, so I knew Gerry because we worked together in, I think, two thousand and two, erm, when we were at the Leicester General Hospital, so we knew each other on the, erm, on call rota, so we’d be together at sort of medical meetings, erm, but we didn’t sort of socialise more than sort of a quick chat at that point in time. And then we really got to know them when David and Fiona got married in two thousand and three, when we went, when they got, they were married in Italy and we, erm, there was a big group of people that went out, erm, all the group that were out in Portugal were there as well, and we shared an apartment with Gerry and Kate and Madeleine, she was about sort of four months old then, four months, it was around about September so she'd be about four or five months old then, and there were other people within the apartment, there was Stuart and Tara and, I think that was it, I think there was six adults and the children, and so we spent sort of a long weekend there for the wedding and so we got to know them a little bit at that point. But then we didn't really have any other contact, apart from, erm, hearing about them through David and Fiona and Russell and Jane, erm, from them. And then the holiday came about because, erm, independently we'd been on sort of various holidays and we'd sort of often talked about them, you know, sort of being friends and we then went on a joint holiday to Greece the year before with David and Fiona, Russell and Jane, erm, but not with the McCANNs, we'd been to Greece, erm, and sort of spent a week on the beach there and then sort of thought about booking a holiday the next year and then Dave and Fiona, I think they'd already been on holiday with Gerry and Kate on another occasion, they wanted to involve them in the group and we ended up going for a MARK WARNER complex in Portugal. Erm, that was, erm, we'd been to, as I say, some of us had been to MARK WARNER, erm, various MARK WARNER resorts before, we'd been to the Greek one in Lemnos, erm, originally before Grace was born, it was just a last minute deal and it was great, it was all inclusive, we all like sport, erm, and sunshine and, erm, it was sort of all inclusive and it was just a very, erm, sort of relaxing sort of place to go, so we went out there and we were quite keen to do that again because everybody in the group is pretty sporty, erm, and if you have a lot of people together you can share sort of the child care arrangements and it's also very relaxing for everybody. Because when we went to Greece it was like the fastest holiday I'd ever been on because there was only about an hour when they were asleep at lunch each day and a couple of hours in the evening where you were actually sort off child care duties, so the week went by in about sort of six hours, it was all sort of, it was very quick. And so we, we went, we talked about whether we'd go back to MARK WARNER, I think, and David and Fiona had looked at various resorts and, erm, chose the Portugal one because it fitted better with time. Erm, in terms of, I mean, originally we were booked, we got the, we actually (inaudible) got the week off that they, that sort of fitted, but we were originally going to go to the Lake District with Rachael's parents but we ended up going, saying that, yes, we'd move that and change that for another week and go out. Erm, and various emails, everybody got sort of tied down to doing it and we booked and then went out".

4078 "In relation to Gerry and Kate then, just to clarify what you have said. You met them at David and Fiona's wedding?"

Reply "Yeah".

4078 "In two thousand and three in Italy. And you stayed, you shared an apartment with them then. Have you met them socially between then and now very often?"

Reply "No, no, we, erm, I know that some of the other groups would, but I think mainly because we were no longer Leicester based, because we left Leicester in two thousand and, end of two thousand and three beginning of two thousand and four, because I got a job down in Kingston because I came to the end of my training, and so we moved out, erm, from there. But in between the times that we were still at Leicester, two thousand and three would have been the wedding, so the end of two thousand and three, because I started at Kingston in February two thousand and four and we didn't sort of socialise, I don't think we met them at all after the wedding, before, erm, before we left to go down to London. But I know Russ and Jane and Dave and Fiona would have been to sort of the birthday parties, erm, but more because they were Leicester based really. And we weren't, hadn't become sort of that close from that small visit in Italy".

4078 "So the first time you had seen them or had anything to do with them really again was this holiday last May?"

Reply "Yeah, I mean, we knew about them because Fiona, Dave and Fiona were sort of close friends with them and I think Fiona and Kate trained at some point (inaudible) training or knew each other in that way, so we'd hear about them, but it was, erm, Gerry and Kate and then Dave and Fi at this end and then Russ and Jane sort of sort of thing, it was like that"... snip
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id219.html

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SapphireSteel said:

Euclides. Hewlett, posh spice pimpleman egg man the gypsies the cleaners Murat ALL came from one source - Team McCann.

They still have these efits on their website and only show the previously suppressed new e fits with the words "it is not possible to be certain" that SY is right that he was the man who took Madeleine. Because it looks like Gerry.

If that's not attempting to mislead, I don't know what is...!

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~n/t~ said:

Who is the convicted child abductor you're referring to?

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haden said:

Matthew Oldfield rogatory

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brit1981 said:

Eu convention on human rights as well as English and Portuguese law. All individuals are considered innocent until they are proven guilty by a court. There is no mechanism in the eu for declaring someone innocent since they are until the court rules innocent. Therefore the mccanns are innocent, and do not need to be declared innocent.

But the final report states they are not involved and lists reasons for this including phone analysis. It also states the indications that led to them being made aguidos were not confirmed or consolidated. I have linked to this previously a few posts back.

Can those who claim they have not been cleared etc provide the mechanism they think is used to proclaim innocence, it can't be a court system as that only declares guilt or not guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and only those who the prisrcuters think they have evidence against go to court so if the prosecutor does not believe in a persons guilt they never make it to court.

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brit1981 said:

There is no evidence the tapas seven tried to hide the fact they left the children either from staff and guests during the holiday or from the police IMO.

They did not do anything illegal anyway.

Not all of the tapas seven did leave their children.

And what's more this is not covering up speeding points, its a child's death. I can see it might be feasible people would lie to claim the parents were there in the flat, but to be open about leaving them whilst hiding her death and body as if its inconsequential is unbelievable IMO.

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brit1981 said:

Under EU law innocence is never proven since it is the default position, prosecutors can only prove guilt.
But the report refers to the non-involvement of the parents with a list of reasons including alibi, phone analysis etc and states the reasons for them being made an aguido were never confirmed or consolidated. I have linked to this a couple if posts previously. But a final report saying you were not involved and s the nearest in the EU to saying you have been proven innocent.

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~n/t~ said:

IMO as long as this case remains open and until such a time there is an arrest and conviction all persons involved are still under investigation including the McCanns. The case remains unsolved. The last person to have seen Madeleine was Gerry. Oldfield listened through the window from what I remember.

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Supernovae said:

In a court of law, yes, they would be considered not guilty until proven otherwise but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the fact that this document is being relied upon to support the statement that the McCanns have been conclusively cleared, in the factual, not the legal sense.

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Supernovae said:

I'm suggesting minimise rather than hide.

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