Possible Connections

joefriday said:

Rich -
I don't have anything which I think is profound. I agree that the second TRM was definitely a copycat/attention getter. My problem with this Lyon case, is, I DO NOT believe the FIRST TRM was the culprit. In 2 or more other cases he is definitely guilty, but here, using him has all the aspects of a red herring/easy-out/decoy/confusion additive...

I do believe, after talking with real TRM witnesses, that a TRM visited Wheaton Mall at least twice. And drew a lot of attention it almost seems on purpose. I've discussed two visit with eye witness, in Feb. and March, 1975. I do not believe he actually abducted the girls. He could have been put up as decoy, by financial benefactor(s). (but this is all speculation...huh).

I've come across something on Fort Worth, however,
I've gotten 3 weird emails, from someone( s ) with personal knowledge of my family and family members: So I am on to something ( oh God!), or I am paranoid. As Freud said in "Beyond the Pleasure Principal". " a little paranoia is healthy."

Private email me, please, for details.

Click to expand...

HUH???? How would you know he is guilty in 2 other cases if you do not know who TRM is......?? DO you know who the TRM is??

Georgiagirl - I was referring to Coffey. He is guilty in at least 2 murders. Richard, with his open and intelligent response, has given me inspiration to at least continue with information I have learned.

Rich - did you notice when I asked people to map-quest the location, a supposed 2 time spotter of the " TRM " comes up with University Blvd as an escape route, making it some how different that Connecticut and Georgia??

I think there are too many "one theory passionates" around this case. pretending to have seen the TRM or the vehicle with abducted girls, etc,, etc. That can be translated to mean, something is amiss.

joefriday,

Let's keep the facts straight. Conn. Ave. dose not pass Wheaton plaza.
#2, Fred Coffey has only been convicted of 1 murder. #3,You don't have
to beleive I am a 2 time spotter of the "TRM". #4,Go back &read some of
the things you've said, they don't make sense.

You've criticized my postings, but all you have to offer are jumbled up
speculations with no support behind them.

joefriday said:

Georgiagirl - I was referring to Coffey. He is guilty in at least 2 murders. Richard, with his open and intelligent response, has given me inspiration to at least continue with information I have learned.

Rich - did you notice when I asked people to map-quest the location, a supposed 2 time spotter of the " TRM " comes up with University Blvd as an escape route, making it some how different that Connecticut and Georgia??

I think there are too many "one theory passionates" around this case. pretending to have seen the TRM or the vehicle with abducted girls, etc,, etc. That can be translated to mean, something is amiss.

Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up! Your post makes sense now!

joefriday said:

Anyone interested in the Lyon case. Please Map-quest, in detail, the "escape" route before commenting ... Thanks.

Click to expand...

Please see a previous post titled: Kensington Residential Area Roads... which is on the Suspects and Persons of Interest thread in this subject.

The girls could have taken a couple of different intended routes from Wheaton Plaza to home, but they would have started down Faulkner to Drumm initially.

- At McComas, they could have turned left and walked up to Jennings.
- Or they could have entered the woods on a foot path near the intersection of Drumm and McComas. This path was mentioned by their mother as their "usual" route.
- Or they could have continued on Drumm to where it is blocked off to vehicle traffic, walked through a short walking place, and then continued on Drumm where it was again open to vehicle traffic. At that point, they could have walked to Plyers Mill Road and turned left, walking the last block to their house.
- They could also at a few points along Drum have turned left to cut through yards and/or the wooded area to their home on the corner of Jennings and Plyers Mill Roads.

The roads in the housing subdivision adjacent are (and were then) a sort of twisting maze, with a number of dead ends. A person would have to know them pretty well before chancing an escape through that area.

It is very likely and possible that a person intent on abducting two girls whom he saw at the mall - and who wanted to make a quick get away might enter the area from Drumm Ave, turn his car around, and wait for his intended victims at the intersection of Drumm and McComas. Waiting at any other place further inside the housing area might mean missing the girls, depending upon which route they chose.

Once they were in his vehicle, he could drive back up Drumm, turn onto main roads and go where he wanted to take them.

This scenario assumes that he intended to abduct them inside the housing area, rather than in the more open parking lot of Wheaton Plaza. It would also allow for acceptance of the boy's statement that he saw the girls heading West on Drum, near Devon, as McComas is the next road intersecting Drumm along the route.

Darn well done, Richard.

However, did you notice how convoluted your rationale had to become to even support theoretical routes which would have gotten them to a major artery, like University Blvd, ((((which has/had more intersections and pedestrian crosswalks and traffic signals than Connecticut of Georgia??)))

It reminds me of the song by Simon and Garfunkel : "The Boxer" :
....a Man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."

Tight lines

I totally agree with you!!! You make perfect sense to me.

Fred Howard Coffey, Jr: NEXT CUSTODY REVIEW DATE: 11-01-2007.

LIFE SENTENCE for MURDER FIRST DEGREE (PRINCIPAL): SENTENCE BEGIN DATE: 11-06-2007.

Of the 5 lesser charges of 10 years each for INDECENT LIBERTY W/CHILD (PRINCIPAL) 4 HAVE EXPIRED.

PROJECTED RELEASE DATE: 11-06-2007 (for the 5th lesser charge.)

This indicates his parole hearings provided a 4 or 5 year possibility of early release for good behavior...no fighting or causing trouble of any kind and that his LIFE sentence for MURDER is to begin upon completion of the 5th lesser charge.

For anyone in law enforcement to disqualify F H Coffey, Jr as a possible suspect or person of interest in the Lyon sister's case or any of the other disappearances during the same time frame would be highly irresponsible. I seriously doubt Montgomery county LE has done or will do that.

No one here has put Fred Coffey in prison. He did that himself and NC law is keeping him there.

It is interesting to note not only that TRM and Coffey both have blue eyes but that certain facial characteristics match and there is resemblence between the two in several photographs of Coffey as well as the possibility he was premature grey and was known to change the color of his hair from dark to salt and pepper to grey. His MO is also highly suspicious just to mention a few facts produced by intensive research/investigation into Mr. Coffey and his personal history, convictions and cases in other states by several people on this forum and by eye witnesses. However, without circumstancial and more importantly DNA evidence linking him to any of the disapearances the case is at a stand still. By law, Fred Coffey's DNA is on file with North Carolina...if anyone could find DNA in the Cathy Lynn Beatty case it would be the only way to implicate or disqualify Fred Coffey as a possible suspect.

Fred Howard Coffey, Jr: NEXT CUSTODY REVIEW DATE: 11-01-2007.

LIFE SENTENCE for MURDER FIRST DEGREE (PRINCIPAL): SENTENCE BEGIN DATE: 11-06-2007.

Of the 5 lesser charges of 10 years each for INDECENT LIBERTY W/CHILD (PRINCIPAL) 4 HAVE EXPIRED.

PROJECTED RELEASE DATE: 11-06-2007 (for the 5th lesser charge.)

This indicates his parole hearings provided a 4 or 5 year possibility of early release for good behavior...no fighting or causing trouble of any kind and that his LIFE sentence for MURDER is to begin upon completion of the 5th lesser charge.

For anyone in law enforcement to disqualify F H Coffey, Jr as a possible suspect or person of interest in the Lyon sister's case or any of the other disappearances during the same time frame would be highly irresponsible. I seriously doubt Montgomery county LE has done or will do that.

No one here has put Fred Coffey in prison. He did that himself and NC law is keeping him there.

It is interesting to note not only that TRM and Coffey both have blue eyes but that certain facial characteristics match and there is resemblence between the two in several photographs of Coffey as well as the possibility he was premature grey and was known to change the color of his hair from dark to salt and pepper to grey. His MO is also highly suspicious just to mention a few facts produced by intensive research/investigation into Mr. Coffey and his personal history, convictions and cases in other states by several people on this forum and by eye witnesses. However, without circumstancial and more importantly DNA evidence linking him to any of the disapearances the case is at a stand still. By law, Fred Coffey's DNA is on file with North Carolina...if anyone could find DNA in the Cathy Lynn Beatty case it would be the only way to implicate or disqualify Fred Coffey as a possible suspect.

joefriday said:

Darn well done, Richard.

However, did you notice how convoluted your rationale had to become to even support theoretical routes which would have gotten them to a major artery, like University Blvd, ((((which has/had more intersections and pedestrian crosswalks and traffic signals than Connecticut of Georgia??)))

It reminds me of the song by Simon and Garfunkel : "The Boxer" :
....a Man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest..."

Tight lines

Click to expand...

You have to apply some sort of logic in any theoretical scenario. As you have said, anything is possible.

Two things have to be kept in mind here. The first is the intended track of the girls, and the second is the intended track of their (probable) abductor. The girls could go places where a vehicle could not go, and vice versa.

The girls were on foot and wanted to return home - most likely by their usual route or one of a few slight variations on that route, through the housing area. They would have been going out of their way to intersect any main roads. This is not to say that they DIDN'T go to a main road, but if so, they would have been going in a direction other than toward their home.

The abductor, on the other hand, was most likely driving a vehicle, and would have had to take a main road to exit the Wheaton Plaza parking lot - even if he wanted to drive on any of the housing area roads. There were three exits from Wheaton Plaza, all going directly onto major roads.

Easy logic might suggest that the abductor would have preferred to get the girls to enter his vehicle in the parking lot, from which he could make a quick exit.

IF his intent was to pick the girls up on the residential streets, then he most likely had gained some information as to where they came from and where they were going. He could have done this by observing their arrival and departure that day, or on previous occasion(s) - or perhaps he gained that information by speaking with the girls.

Because there was no reported scuffle or disturbance at any time, I suspect that the abductor had gained the girls' confidence earlier and in some way tricked them into entering his vehicle willingly.

The girls' mother, Mary Lyon suggested this as a possibility very early in the investigation. She speculated that someone might have told the girls that there had been an accident and that their parents were in the hospital, and that he had been sent to get them.

Richard -

I am not assuming the girls were taken anywhere of significance!!!!! Okay!!! All the local roads lead to multiple traffic lights where screaming girls could have been a bit of a distraction!!! Duh....

How about someone they really knew, in the general neighborhood, being the culprit? Doesn't it fit all the criteria for Criminology 102????

Why do we have to keep have some mysterious abductor that goes to other states undetected??

Does this make sence to anyone??

joefriday
Since you,ve accused me of lying about seeing TRM twice, I suppose you feel this opens the door for your theories. I have told the truth, & Richard (through his reaserch) has indicated there were other killers working the area at the time. You,re not the first to come up with another theory. Anything is possible.

I suppose we could call SAC & see if there were any UFOs reported in the area that day.

The point I,m trying yo make is,if you respect other peoples theories, than maybe you,ll receive respect in return.

I accused you of nothing, Jeb. I only said that you said you were only 80% certain that Coffey was the individual you saw in Wheaton Plaza with a "tape recorder". So what? Where did this "liar" stuff come from. If you did not say that, perhaps I misheard you. Ok...fine, just say so. But I NEVER called you anything beyond what I just said.

So why this tirade? What , for God's sake, did I do except throw another perspective on this case? I agree there were killers in the area then and now.....so what?? That proves nothing about this specific case. Why do you feel personally attacked?

Is this the normal response on this site? Chill..........

joefriday said:

Georgiagirl - I was referring to Coffey. He is guilty in at least 2 murders. Richard, with his open and intelligent response, has given me inspiration to at least continue with information I have learned.

Rich - did you notice when I asked people to map-quest the location, a supposed 2 time spotter of the " TRM " comes up with University Blvd as an escape route, making it some how different that Connecticut and Georgia??

I think there are too many "one theory passionates" around this case. pretending to have seen the TRM or the vehicle with abducted girls, etc,, etc. That can be translated to mean, something is amiss.

Click to expand...

joefriday,

"a supposed 2 time spotter of the "TRM"." I spotted TRM 2 times, I'm not a supposed 2 time spotter.

"pretending to have seen the TRM". I didn't pretend to see a damn thing, I did indeed see him.

These are accusations that I'm lying, coming from YOU !!

Coming from me, or coming for me?

Who are you??


cc's (blind)

First, please, everyone. I AM NOT the Joe Friday ( with cap.'s ) who made so many controversial comments on the Scott Peterson case.

I am a totally different person, and the administrator assures me that that person had not been a member for a long time.

Thanks

Emery, thanks for your perceptive insights back in June!. The same occurs to me because I have lived and raised a daughter in this area.

ShlurT - thanks for the reassurance that I am at least "making some sense".

Jeb - I apologize if I said you were a "susposed two time spotter of the Taper Recorder Man." I know you saw someone fitting this discription at least once, it was very clear to me based on the way you told it.

However, PLEASE understand, that you are not positive that ( 80% ??) that the TRM was Coffey. And no one has positively linked the TRM to the Lyons except through circumstantial evidence!!

Also, understand my and Emeory's positions. We live/lived here. We are a little tiny bit cynical that all the neighbors were seemingly given a free pass - even some of the questionable areas directly behind the Plaza through which the girls had to walk.

Finally, I do not think you are a dishonest person in any way! I think you are an honest man, a good person, a dog lover, a man who loves his spouse and family!! I think you're intelligent. Period.

So....if I happen to disagree on where the police should look on this case, it is NOT person. I indeed, am very sad to seem to have lost your friendship.

joefriday said:

Richard -...How about someone they really knew, in the general neighborhood, being the culprit? Doesn't it fit all the criteria for Criminology 102????

Why do we have to keep have some mysterious abductor that goes to other states undetected??...

Click to expand...

There are a wide range of possibilities any time a person goes missing. The vast majority of young kids who are reported missing have simply run away or stayed out too late. I do not know the facts and figures for it, but most missing child cases end up with the child returning home safely.

That was discussed early and often in the case of the Lyon sisters, but was not likely and the passage of time has pretty well convinced me that they were abducted - either in Wheaton Plaza parking lot, or an area nearby, perhaps while they were walking home.

Let's consider the possibility that they might have been abducted by a home owner or renting tenant along their route. There were not that many houses and the police did go door to door asking everyone questions. All garages, sheds, ponds, etc were carefully searched.

Police looked up every pervert and pediphile in the area that they knew and questioned them.

The family was interviewed, as were neighbors. In the end, no family or neighborhood suspects were developed.

I suggested the possibility of a neighborhood person named Michael Pearch being their abductor. (See the Suspects and Persons of Interest thread). Pearch's mother lived in a house only a few blocks from the Lyon house and very close to Kate's middle school. He traveled the residential roads often in his green VW, and liked to shop in Wheaton and at the Mall.

Pearch had moved to a farm in or near Friendsville, Maryland in westernmost Garret County - a good two and a half or three hour drive from Wheaton. But he came home often, and could very well have been in the neighborhood when the girls disappeared. He was mentally disturbed, paranoid, and very much a loner. He was into guns and knives and had prior Army service. He had been involved in counterintelligence and had told his mother and sister that he had been involved in kidnappings, fake passports and badges, and other such activities when stationed in Germany. How much was true and how much was simply made up in his imagination is not known.

In a way, you may be right about police giving him a "free ticket". Probably partly for the reason that he had never been in any kind of trouble prior to the girls' disappearance - so he was not on anyone's radar at the time. Also, because he was shot to death by police following an April 1975 shooting spree which started right at Wheaton Plaza. Pearch seemed to be singling out black adults to shoot at, mostly males. Police did not see any connection between the two cases.

The Pearch case was "open and shut". Police did what they had to do when faced with a mad man shooting people on the streets, who refused to put down his weapons. They shot and killed him.

But what made Pearch do what he did? And could he have done other things as well - like abducting the Lyon sisters?

Unfortunately, all you have to connect the cases is the closeness in time and place - and coincidence. You couldn't ask Pearch questions after he was dead, but it seems that no questions were even formulated regarding Pearch as a potential suspect in the girls disappearance. To my knowledge, no search was ever conducted for the girls at his Friendsville farm.

Rich, et. al.

You know as well as I that many perverts like Perch orchestrate their own killing. Some cannot sleep at night, and even orchestrate their own killing.
The police are a convenient tool.

Another important point re perch: A personal friend of mine went through Oakland Terrace elementary school with the oldest of the two Lyon sisters. He has told me and his Dad and Mom many times that the Lyon girls were not blond haired/blue eyed stereotypes. That the elder, his friend was both extremely smart and extremely aware that her Dad was a person well known on the radio. He thinks that the dumb blond stereotype was used to issue the girls did something stupid - and were totally trusting.

I did not go to school with the girls. Therefore, I personally can only relate what he said.

P.S. Please review Ms. Lyons statements after the disappearance. He, and many others around here, believe she was right on.....

Take care all.