Kyron Horman's general discussion thread for 2014

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sarah7855 said:
Thank you!! Wow, that caption is really odd. My first thought was "why point that out?" It's not like she couldn't take another picture when he got back from the bathroom, she seems to take multiple pics of one event anyhow. Just doesn't make sense.
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Since I don't believe in coincidences, I find this pic and her comment to be very suspect. The pic is dated November 2009 and Kyron went missing in June 2010. It's possible she was wondering back then how suspicious it might be if he went missing from school.

She then throws out that comment as if to point out that Kyron was always 'missing' from some place. The "*sigh*" let's us know how frustrated she was with his supposed shenanigans.

Another thought ... TM cannot substantiate her whereabouts for about 90 minutes that day. Assuming she was hiding Kyron's body, it wouldn't be too far from the school. I haven't followed this case very closely, and am wondering if you've all hypothesized about that already.
 
Cracka*Jaxx said:
Since I don't believe in coincidences, I find this pic and her comment to be very suspect. The pic is dated November 2009 and Kyron went missing in June 2010. It's possible she was wondering back then how suspicious it might be if he went missing from school.

She then throws out that comment as if to point out that Kyron was always 'missing' from some place. The "*sigh*" let's us know how frustrated she was with his supposed shenanigans.

Another thought ... TM cannot substantiate her whereabouts for about 90 minutes that day. Assuming she was hiding Kyron's body, it wouldn't be too far from the school. I haven't followed this case very closely, and am wondering if you've all hypothesized about that already.
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Blaming the victim, here, too! :facepalm:


( Glad to see you, CrackaJaxx!)

:seeya:
 
EllaMae said:
IMHO....the circumstances of this case do not add up to a stranger abduction at all.

Ask yourself this question....if you were totally innocent of the abduction and murder of your stepson, would you stand by and let YEARS of your baby's life go by with absolutely no contact? Wouldn't you demand a custody trial if you were an innocent woman? Wouldn't you want your name cleared? Wouldn't you want your life back? TMH has done nothing because she has many things to hide. That much is obvious by what's happened in court, if nothing else.

I think of that teacher in Georgia who was falsely accused of sexually abusing a child. The entire community turned against her,and her children were taken away, but she battled on until she was able to clear her name and regain her children. She was innocent and she did not stop until she got justice for herself and for her children. Innocent people fight back. Innocent people use public avenues to get their stories told and to gain support. If TMH is innocent...she would be doing the same thing. She would not fear telling the truth in a divorce trial. She would not hide behind her elderly parents. She would want to be a mother to her baby, and not lose time that can never be regained. She would've told the truth from the very beginning.

TMH has had no other reason to behave as she has unless she was involved in what happened to Kyron.
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I completely agree. Unless she had been involved in something even worse than what happened to Kyron, which probably would have come out by now. Whatever happened to her petition to be granted visitation with her daughter?
 
EllaMae said:
IMHO....the circumstances of this case do not add up to a stranger abduction at all.

Ask yourself this question....if you were totally innocent of the abduction and murder of your stepson, would you stand by and let YEARS of your baby's life go by with absolutely no contact? Wouldn't you demand a custody trial if you were an innocent woman? Wouldn't you want your name cleared? Wouldn't you want your life back? TMH has done nothing because she has many things to hide. That much is obvious by what's happened in court, if nothing else.

I think of that teacher in Georgia who was falsely accused of sexually abusing a child. The entire community turned against her,and her children were taken away, but she battled on until she was able to clear her name and regain her children. She was innocent and she did not stop until she got justice for herself and for her children. Innocent people fight back. Innocent people use public avenues to get their stories told and to gain support. If TMH is innocent...she would be doing the same thing. She would not fear telling the truth in a divorce trial. She would not hide behind her elderly parents. She would want to be a mother to her baby, and not lose time that can never be regained. She would've told the truth from the very beginning.

TMH has had no other reason to behave as she has unless she was involved in what happened to Kyron.
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As I've said previously, TH's actions have been in accordance what ANY good defense attorney will tell their client, especially if they are innocent. So while I do have some suspicions regarding TH, refusing to cooperate with LE and the custody hearings have no bearing on that. If I were advised by my attorney to keep quiet and act as she had, heck yes I would do it. Making up for lost time with my child is far easier to do when I'm not in prison for a crime I hypothetically did not commit.

Jaycee Dugard's stepfather was suspected of killing her for a very long time. Riley Fox's father falsely confessed to murder. Richard Ricci was thought to have kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Roy Kronk was targeted in Caylee Anthony's case. There are many cases where the obvious suspect had nothing to do with the crime, even though the circumstantial evidence appears damning.

To me, there's something about this case that's felt off. It's why I've remained on the fence for so long. The whole botched murder for hire sting, the weird backstory between Kaine and Desiree, the fact that despite 26 agencies, there's still not enough evidence to charge TH, the timeline issues - there are all doubts. In the end, LE is human, and humans make mistakes. I've not seen anything yet to push me off the fence, and I've been following this case from day one.
 
You cannot EVER make up for lost time with a child. Ever.

Nothing and no one would keep an innocent mother from fighting for her child. And no judge would keep them apart without real concerns and evidence of some kind. LE has evidence that the public knows nothing about. The lawyers for TMH are trying to limit the damage the civil case will do to the criminal case for a good reason. They know TMH has done something wrong, and they don't want it to be revealed and become part of the record. That's why they have been keeping her quiet during a relatively simple divorce case. If TMH was innocent she'd be divorced by now and probably living with her daughter.
LE is hoping to find Kyron before an arrest is made because they only get one shot at TMH. They want to make it count.
 
EllaMae said:
You cannot EVER make up for lost time with a child. Ever.

Nothing and no one would keep an innocent mother from fighting for her child. And no judge would keep them apart without real concerns and evidence of some kind. LE has evidence that the public knows nothing about. The lawyers for TMH are trying to limit the damage the civil case will do to the criminal case for a good reason. They know TMH has done something wrong, and they don't want it to be revealed and become part of the record. That's why they have been keeping her quiet during a relatively simple divorce case. If TMH was innocent she'd be divorced by now and probably living with her daughter.
LE is hoping to find Kyron before an arrest is made because they only get one shot at TMH. They want to make it count.
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And you certainly can't if you're sentenced to life in prison for a crime you didn't commit.
 
AnaTeresa said:
And you certainly can't if you're sentenced to life in prison for a crime you didn't commit.
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Actually....there are many children who visit incarcerated parents. Unless the parental rights have been terminated, prisoners are allowed to have their children visit them and to maintain a relationship with them.
 
What I do know is that if my child disappeared from his school in any shape or form I would ALSO blame the school as well as the POI.
They had physical custody of the child. tMH may be guilty but so is the school. IMO.
 
Therein lies the problem.

In the first day, there was a letter in the Oregon newspaper where a person(I assume the husband or a close friend of the teacher) stated that TMH had said she was bringing Kyron to the doctor. The writer said TMH hollered across the room.

The comment was quickly removed but it may be on here somewhere right in the beginning as I posted it. Maybe it is online somewhere if you google.

TMH also said that the teacher was new. Not true!

So, what is the truth? Depends on what people want to believe.

I believe the writer of the comment as what was said by the person proved to be true in terms of the other things said in the comment,

I do not remember exactly what was said,

Hard to blame the school if TMH said she was taking Kyron
 
I've never been able to remove my child from school without signing him out! That is the procedure to keep track of the children.
TMH should have had to sign him out if she left with him. The teacher should have checked to see if Kyron had been signed out
after he was missing. The school still dropped the ball IMO. I wouldn't send another child there.
 
She never brought him to actual school. She just brought him to the fair.
 
OK but people saw him there and never checked to see what happened with him when he disappeared? Didn't check to see if he was signed out?
He was at a school activity.
 
EllaMae said:
Actually....there are many children who visit incarcerated parents. Unless the parental rights have been terminated, prisoners are allowed to have their children visit them and to maintain a relationship with them.
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Yes, you're allowed - but it's not like you're seeing your children every week. In my state, you're only able to have 1-2 visits per month, depending on the facility. But more to the point, that's only if someone is actually bringing the child to you. There's cost and time to it, if the facility is remote. And I can't see Kaine happily bringing her to visit TH twice a month. People with supportive families have a hard enough time bringing children to visit incarcerated parents. Under these circumstances? I doubt TH would see much of her child, if at all.
 
MissJ said:
OK but people saw him there and never checked to see what happened with him when he disappeared? Didn't check to see if he was signed out?
He was at a school activity.
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She told the teacher she was bringing him to the doctor, although she lied about that.

He was never actually in school. Just the fair with his mother.
 
AnaTeresa said:
As I've said previously, TH's actions have been in accordance what ANY good defense attorney will tell their client, especially if they are innocent. So while I do have some suspicions regarding TH, refusing to cooperate with LE and the custody hearings have no bearing on that. If I were advised by my attorney to keep quiet and act as she had, heck yes I would do it. Making up for lost time with my child is far easier to do when I'm not in prison for a crime I hypothetically did not commit.

Jaycee Dugard's stepfather was suspected of killing her for a very long time. Riley Fox's father falsely confessed to murder. Richard Ricci was thought to have kidnapped Elizabeth Smart. Roy Kronk was targeted in Caylee Anthony's case. There are many cases where the obvious suspect had nothing to do with the crime, even though the circumstantial evidence appears damning.

To me, there's something about this case that's felt off. It's why I've remained on the fence for so long. The whole botched murder for hire sting, the weird backstory between Kaine and Desiree, the fact that despite 26 agencies, there's still not enough evidence to charge TH, the timeline issues - there are all doubts. In the end, LE is human, and humans make mistakes. I've not seen anything yet to push me off the fence, and I've been following this case from day one.
Click to expand...

Regarding the bolded above - you are wrong. We have verified attorneys who post here who have said the opposite. They said this strategy suggests a guilty client, not an innocent one. That they would NOT advise an innocent client to abandon their child. So please don't say that "any good defense attorney" would advise an innocent client to abandon their child - that's just not accurate.

And if you're saying that you would abandon your baby and miss her entire childhood and perhaps the rest of her life in order to avoid a police interview that (if you are innocent) only has the slightest chance of being misconstrued, then you are in the extreme minority of human beings. And how the heck do you "make up for lost time" with a 5 year old you ditched as a baby and who doesn't even know who you are? Make up for lost time... how?
 
MissJ said:
OK but people saw him there and never checked to see what happened with him when he disappeared? Didn't check to see if he was signed out?
He was at a school activity.
Click to expand...

I guess when the last person he was seen with was his mother who said something about him having a doctors appointment, it's an easy rationalization to make that he's with his mom at the doctor. Hopefully (and I'm guessing it's more like "definitely") the school has a lot more security these days to make sure the parents sign their children out once the child sets foot on school grounds, no exceptions.

We live in a small town and my child's school was always informal with the familiar parents as well. I could chat with the teacher and drive my daughter to the doctor and bring her back all with a smile and a quick word with the main office and the teacher without ever signing her out. My daughter's father lives in a different state and when he showed up to pick her up one day (I'd left word with the school that he'd be doing that) they made him show ID, sign her out, and then they called to let me know he'd picked her up on time. They were familiar with me, so they were informal. A "stranger" was a different story. In the last few years security has beefed up considerably, even though we've never had an incident here. Now there are cameras and buzz-in entrances. But even just a few years ago this wasn't the case. Security is sometimes slow to emerge in places that don't have a history of problems.
 
JMO but I think security really needs to be on top of this at schools everywhere. My grand child lives in the area where Kyron lived and it certainly
scares me. Because I think someone else may have had a hand in it as well as TMH. But thats just me.
 
ami said:
Regarding the bolded above - you are wrong. We have verified attorneys who post here who have said the opposite. They said this strategy suggests a guilty client, not an innocent one. That they would NOT advise an innocent client to abandon their child. So please don't say that "any good defense attorney" would advise an innocent client to abandon their child - that's just not accurate.

And if you're saying that you would abandon your baby and miss her entire childhood and perhaps the rest of her life in order to avoid a police interview that (if you are innocent) only has the slightest chance of being misconstrued, then you are in the extreme minority of human beings. And how the heck do you "make up for lost time" with a 5 year old you ditched as a baby and who doesn't even know who you are? Make up for lost time... how?
Click to expand...

Yes, there have been other attorneys on here that have disagreed, but as far as I am aware, they aren't criminal defense attorneys. I stand by my opinion. I may not be a verified poster, but I am an attorney who has been working in the criminal defense field for three years now. A good defense attorney wouldn't say "abandon your child." I never claimed that. A good defense attorney will tell a client to maintain their silence, which is what TH has done. Unfortunately, that has the side effect of limiting her ability to try and gain custody of her child. Given the serious criminal ramifications, a good defense attorney will prioritize keeping their client out of jail over child custody. As I've said before, it's quite hard to have a relationship with your child when you're in prison, wrongfully or not. If you're free, you have the chance to reconnect with the child - it's not about "making up for lost time." But you're never going to reconnect if you're in prison. By maintaining her silence, TH at least has a chance of that.

It's fine if you or others disagree. But as a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you, prioritizing your clients right to remain silent and keeping them out of jail is your job. Some of those actions may have sad ramifications in family court, but your job is to focus on the criminal charges. TH did what she should, guilty or innocent.
 
AnaTeresa said:
Yes, there have been other attorneys on here that have disagreed, but as far as I am aware, they aren't criminal defense attorneys. I stand by my opinion. I may not be a verified poster, but I am an attorney who has been working in the criminal defense field for three years now. A good defense attorney wouldn't say "abandon your child." I never claimed that. A good defense attorney will tell a client to maintain their silence, which is what TH has done. Unfortunately, that has the side effect of limiting her ability to try and gain custody of her child. Given the serious criminal ramifications, a good defense attorney will prioritize keeping their client out of jail over child custody. As I've said before, it's quite hard to have a relationship with your child when you're in prison, wrongfully or not. If you're free, you have the chance to reconnect with the child - it's not about "making up for lost time." But you're never going to reconnect if you're in prison. By maintaining her silence, TH at least has a chance of that.

It's fine if you or others disagree. But as a criminal defense attorney, I can tell you, prioritizing your clients right to remain silent and keeping them out of jail is your job. Some of those actions may have sad ramifications in family court, but your job is to focus on the criminal charges. TH did what she should, guilty or innocent.
Click to expand...

FWIW ITA. I'm not convinced she is guilty but she is doing as advised. JMO
 
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