cindersoot
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Why does it matter, how far the girls went, or how far they were allowed to go? The fact is their gone, they went.
IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23
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Thank you Otto. I do understand the need for privacy. I just wondered if they could be seen from home where the camera was. Grandma called for the girls to come in either right before or soon after the video from what I recall, I 'm not sure how sound carries in that location but where I am the neighbors can hear me for a mile. I admit I do have a loud mouth though. lol Anyway, just wondering if Grandma yelled and this was close then the girls should have heard her. So they must have been taken sometime between when they were on video and Grandma went in search of them which is only like 15 minutes. IMO the perp hears Grandma and had to silence the girls quickly. Grandma might have even seen the perp but didn't think anything of it.
Many good points. Regarding when Heather said of burying bones. I don't think she meant that literally. She was referring to it just being a body.
As far as the hunters not hunting the same ground, that's not true. Deer are mobile, and usually one or more hunters flush out the deer, while others stand and wait. Si it would be more likely that the WOULD cover the same ground.
As far as popularity of the hunting site, like I said, I have a coworker who knows many hungers who hunt that area, so in guessing it was hunted many tines during first season, the first Saturday of December through that Wednesday, the day the girls were found. Other times of the year, maybe not, although bow hunting season starts I believe October 1 and breaks for shotgun season in December.
And j always thought that the girls were taken much closer to home. I hope that all campers were meticulously checked. Would be easy to lure them into a camper.
TripleA
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It matters. It changes what was necessary in order to abduct them without being seen or heard. It changes who should be re-interviewed about what they saw that day. It changes the timeline. Of course it matters.
tlcya
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It matters a great deal to me and possibly to investigators. Reason being, where they were taken diretly relates to how they were taken and maybe even by whom.
MOO
cindersoot
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Okay I get it, thanks tlcox.
I think so. Wilma said that they rode their bikes around the "loop" and that she kept an eye on them. They were riding away from the house towards River Forest Road when they were last seen on video.
I'm trying to understand the route that may have been taken by the perp if he abducted the girls within a block of the house ... not sure how this will work out ... it's difficult to squish the maps down to a size that doesn't blow margins
Heather strikes me as a literal person, so if she said bones, I suspect that she meant bones.
I haven't seen this possible scenerio before but after thinking about it, just maybe.
On the opposite side of Lafayette road is a road that feels more like an alley because it opens up to all the backs of businesses facing Lafayette road. It's called Industrial Drive. One of the bar/restaurants there has a large 6-8 ft. solid wood fenced-in beer garden all the way around the back bar part of it. I'm pretty sure the wooden door/gate stays unlocked during the daytime in the summer, not positive. Suppose the girls rode their bikes behind the fence of the beer garden, and Lyric had Elizabeth watch the bikes while she went in to get some chips and pop. Then the perpetrator was driving by, saw little Elizabeth standing there all alone. He quickly stopped his car, made her get in and threw her bike in the back of his van/truck,whatever. That's when Lyric came out with the chips and pop, but it was too late to drive off without being seen, so he had to take her too so there wouldn't be any witnesses. Maybe that's why she had her purse with her, she was planning on buying something.
On the opposite side of Lafayette road is a road that feels more like an alley because it opens up to all the backs of businesses facing Lafayette road. It's called Industrial Drive. One of the bar/restaurants there has a large 6-8 ft. solid wood fenced-in beer garden all the way around the back bar part of it. I'm pretty sure the wooden door/gate stays unlocked during the daytime in the summer, not positive. Suppose the girls rode their bikes behind the fence of the beer garden, and Lyric had Elizabeth watch the bikes while she went in to get some chips and pop. Then the perpetrator was driving by, saw little Elizabeth standing there all alone. He quickly stopped his car, made her get in and threw her bike in the back of his van/truck,whatever. That's when Lyric came out with the chips and pop, but it was too late to drive off without being seen, so he had to take her too so there wouldn't be any witnesses. Maybe that's why she had her purse with her, she was planning on buying something.
I assumed that when Wilma said that the girls rode their bikes around the loop and that she kept an eye on them, that meant that they normally stayed South of Lafayette. I don't think they would be shopping for chips and pop since they had just poured drinks at Heather's house ... and left them full on the counter when they went out for a short bike ride.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When they`ve gone off before, how long did they usually stay out? And would they stay more in the immediate area?
COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.
And they were always thirsty, wanted a V-8 juice or something to drink. And then maybe they`d go out for a short 10-minute ride again or something. But it wasn`t a regular basis every day that I would let them go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wilma, did you see them bike off? Did you see them get on their bikes and head out?
COOK: Yes. And they went to the parking lot where the post office is.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html
Here we can see where the old post office was:
Maybe chips then. Why would she need her purse for a short bike ride? Maybe just chips and she found she really needed to go to the bathroom too.
Or maybe she went in quick to see if any of the bar video game things were open.. don't know what it's called, a lot of kids play on them, they cost a dollar. Maybe that's why they hid there bikes behind the beer garden, so Wilma wouldn't suspect they were in there.
COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.
Could down on the other side mean other side of the street where Industrial opens up to the backs of businesses?
I don't think she meant that the children crossed Lafayette on their bikes when they were expected to stay close to home.
maybe down a little ways on the other side :waitasec: Couldn't that be interpreted as meaning "down a little ways on the other side of the street?" Crossing Lafayette is no big deal, it's still close, just across the street. The map makes it look far, but it's really close. Many people walk back and forth across it from one business to another. It would still be very close to home.
They're discussing looking at a map, so if you can find this program, then we'll see it on a map. I'm thinking that if Wilma said that they crossed Lafayette, we would have heard about it.
Aired July 17, 2012 - 19:00
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html
I sure hope so. This is a puzzle in urgent need of having the pieces fit together. :waitasec:
I am probably re-stating someone else's. but with the stipulation the girls
were restricted close to home, and may not have even known how to get
to the Lake, then we may be talking about an abduction within a 1-2
block radius of the house ... and opportunity suggests to me the mall
parking lot or close by? More people, more traffic flow, people busy not
paying attention, ... somone with a vehicle ... who could grab the kids
and the bikes then drop the bikes off at the Lake ... but that's a lot of
activity involving girls that might not be cooperative not to be noticed.
Are there cameras that record the mall parking lot area?
Or a cul de sac or alley that borders the mall parking lot area where a 'grab'
could occur and not be recorded or seen by the public, between the hours
at play?
Were there any events in the mall parking lot that day that might have attracted
the girls to go look ... and be taken?
I made a decision to exclude information about the exact location of the victim's home for privacy reasons.
There is a camera at the back of the Cornbelt Auction, and that is the camera that captured the girls riding their bikes at about 12:15 on July 13. The red line shows the approximate angle of the camera for the video that we have seen. There would have been additional cameras along Lafayette - at least there would have been one at the bank, and possibly at gas stations ... but there is no additional video of the girls. That means it's possible that they were abducted right in the area near the home - within a on block radius of the corner of Brovan and Sipple.
What is Lotties' Lounge - a bar? Who frequents that place? Is it
possible some drunk hit one or both of them then threw them into his
vehicle to cover it up ....
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I think so. Wilma said that they rode their bikes around the "loop" and that she kept an eye on them. They were riding away from the house towards River Forest Road when they were last seen on video.
I'm trying to understand the route that may have been taken by the perp if he abducted the girls within a block of the house ... not sure how this will work out ... it's difficult to squish the maps down to a size that doesn't blow margins
Nope. The eastbound onramp was closed due to construction. Probably more likely that he went east via dubuque road.
My eyes went to the same place! Plausible scenario.
This place might be opportunistic in that it attracts the right/wrong
people, offers enough seclusion, no camera ... and seclusion plus a place
with undesirables may be key here... vs. a mall parking lot which is far
more open and has more ordinary people to see things happening.
Has LE interviewed the people who were at this place during the critical
hour ?
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