MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

How many people have a naturally sounding raspy voice in a 50 mile radius?

Sasquatch321 said:

How many people have a naturally sounding raspy voice in a 50 mile radius?

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And how many people can do a raspy voice? Even I can

Sasquatch321 said:

How many people have a naturally sounding raspy voice in a 50 mile radius?

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Who is completely certain the radius is 50 miles?

Sufferin succotash that's a raspy voice!! I just tried to do it myself -- pretty good for a bit then I started coughing -- now I'm imagining doing it under duress -- not so good. Channeling raspy voice with commanding authoritative tone and "it's okay to talk about this" = fail for the Phantom.

I think of true raspy voices as East Coast Italian and some Polish Chicagoans. I'm thinking of folks like Rollie Massimino from Villanova or Lou Carneseca from St. JOHNS. These are famous basketball coaches.

To show my open-mindedness, there would be Monks from those areas.

Tossing around a "Dans Story PT 2, New Questions with Answers"

Dan,

Thank you for being here and continuing the hope to find Jacob. You guessed it right Dan, tonight we have some new new questions to ask you-

1. Were you able to successfully grab some shut eye before you left for work the next morning?

2. Dan, when did you first tell anyone about all three unusual cars you saw that day?

3. Dan, when did you first tell anyone that you had unloaded a trunk full of boxes the next morning?

4. Dan, had you planned on replying to Pattys letter?

5. Dan, did you have anything to do with the abduction of Jacob Wetterling?

Feel free to add your own questions, i could compile allof them together and submit this idea to Joy in an email. Its time.

We can have dozens of suspects but we're handicapped in discerning the truth because we can't see what LE has in their records, you know? I can add up what I know and arrive at a conclusion only to discover how much I didn't know and still don't. We do have our intuition, which, I do believe is valuable but all of us have what psychologists refer to as confirmation bias. We keep looking for evidence that aligns with our theories. But what about the info we don't have? We're left with educated guesses, personal suppositions, subjective suspicions and churlish dispositions.


You may tell the greatest lies and wear a brilliant disguise, but you can't escape the eyes of the one who sees right through you.
~ Tom Robbins

Ok I have a question for Dan -- how does anyone go to bed knowing a young neighborhood boy was abducted from their driveway ---

I was just at a home we own in a rural area of California. It has a dirt driveway 120 yards long. There are two rutted strips down the center where most vehicles would stay on. The dirt is very hard packed. There are so many tire impressions on top of each other that I couldn't ascertain any individual tracks. Maybe an expert could but I'm sure no usable plaster impression could be made.

On the sides of the driveway, there are areas without tracks where the dirt is soft and any driver who veered onto these areas would leave a very distinct track that would last for days.

My point is that I'm not so sure there would be any way to tell the newest, 2'nd newest etc. it would all depend on the condition of the part of the road any particular driver drove on. Drivers who deviated from the well traveled center of the road would be the most likely to leave a useable track.

kemo said:

I was just at a home we own in a rural area of California. It has a dirt driveway 120 yards long. There are two rutted strips down the center where most vehicles would stay on. The dirt is very hard packed. There are so many tire impressions on top of each other that I couldn't ascertain any individual tracks. Maybe an expert could but I'm sure no usable plaster impression could be made.

On the sides of the driveway, there are areas without tracks where the dirt is soft and any driver who veered onto these areas would leave a very distinct track that would last for days.

My point is that I'm not so sure there would be any way to tell the newest, 2'nd newest etc. it would all depend on the condition of the part of the road any particular driver drove on. Drivers who deviated from the well traveled center of the road would be the most likely to leave a useable track.

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We Really need better pictures of Rassier's driveway. What we have to look at is just ridiculous! We don't even have any pics which show the corresponding track of the one that we do have a few views of. It's pathetic! LE doesn't want anyone looking at anything concerning the case.

Dave K said:

We Really need better pictures of Rassier's driveway. What we have to look at is just ridiculous! We don't even have any pics which show the corresponding track of the one that we do have a few views of. It's pathetic! LE doesn't want anyone looking at anything concerning the case.

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You are right in your indignation!

kemo said:

I was just at a home we own in a rural area of California. It has a dirt driveway 120 yards long. There are two rutted strips down the center where most vehicles would stay on. The dirt is very hard packed. There are so many tire impressions on top of each other that I couldn't ascertain any individual tracks. Maybe an expert could but I'm sure no usable plaster impression could be made.

On the sides of the driveway, there are areas without tracks where the dirt is soft and any driver who veered onto these areas would leave a very distinct track that would last for days.

My point is that I'm not so sure there would be any way to tell the newest, 2'nd newest etc. it would all depend on the condition of the part of the road any particular driver drove on. Drivers who deviated from the well traveled center of the road would be the most likely to leave a useable track.

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Precisely.....those familiar with the road follow the path by habit....those unfamiliar with the road may deviate from the path-naturally so. The 'newest' track would be the dark car with headlights close together...and the '2'nd newest' would be Kevin's car...I would assume both unfamiliar with the road but you can decide which is real.

kemo said:

I was just at a home we own in a rural area of California. It has a dirt driveway 120 yards long. There are two rutted strips down the center where most vehicles would stay on. The dirt is very hard packed. There are so many tire impressions on top of each other that I couldn't ascertain any individual tracks. Maybe an expert could but I'm sure no usable plaster impression could be made.

On the sides of the driveway, there are areas without tracks where the dirt is soft and any driver who veered onto these areas would leave a very distinct track that would last for days.

My point is that I'm not so sure there would be any way to tell the newest, 2'nd newest etc. it would all depend on the condition of the part of the road any particular driver drove on. Drivers who deviated from the well traveled center of the road would be the most likely to leave a useable track.

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RBBM

I can easily answer the question. From the moment a print is made, human, animal or vehicle it starts to degrade. Temperature, humidity, wind, soil content and a few other factors come into play. When investigating prints, you need to find out all those environmental factors to be able to age each print. Now it would be very difficult to age two sets of tracks made in...say...a four hour period, but longer than that, once you know the conditions you can age them to within a couple of hours.

Now since this is such a doubting group, I will give you a little exercise you can do if you chose to. Take a baking pan around 12' x24". Place about 1" of damp (not soaking wet) play sand in the bottom. smooth the sand and tamp it down firmly with something flat. Now take your thumb and make a 1/4" deep impression in the lower left corner. Then, each half hour, make another impression like the first about two inches away to the right. Keep going across the pan until you have a row, then start on a second row two inches up from the first. As you go along making each new impression, look at the old ones and note how they are drying out and the edges begin to crumble. Do this until the sand in the pan dries out and note how the impression looks in completely dry sand as you make it.

Now if you are really interested in what you saw, do the same test with damp dirt. Then again with damp sand and dirt.

Now you know the basics of aging a print. Other indicators would be debris blown into the tracks by wind, night roaming animal prints on top of the ones you are looking at, little pocks or wash from rain...and on and on and on...

Now if you want to really blow your mind....and I am letting a big secret out here... Take a clear juice glass, fill it with alternating 1/2" layers of sand and flour until you get to the top ending with a layer of sand. Now take your thumb and make an impression about a 1/2" deep near the edge and watch what happens to the layers underneath. This happens in each and every print. Go to the other side of the glass and make a second impression about 1" deep. See the difference?

Prints in mud appear larger than they really are. Prints in dry sand appear to be smaller than they really are.

Have Fun!

human said:

What about the FBI and the BCA of MN?

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I am not sure what question you are asking here. The FBI had some basic print knowledge. I do know that in the 80's, Tom Brown was consulting for the FBI on a few cases. I have no idea what print knowledge the BCA had. I assume it was at least how to read the pattern in the print and match it to a brand and model shoe.

Sasquatch321 said:

Tossing around a "Dans Story PT 2, New Questions with Answers"

Dan,

Thank you for being here and continuing the hope to find Jacob. You guessed it right Dan, tonight we have some new new questions to ask you-

1. Were you able to successfully grab some shut eye before you left for work the next morning?

2. Dan, when did you first tell anyone about all three unusual cars you saw that day?

3. Dan, when did you first tell anyone that you had unloaded a trunk full of boxes the next morning?

4. Dan, had you planned on replying to Pattys letter?

5. Dan, did you have anything to do with the abduction of Jacob Wetterling?

Feel free to add your own questions, i could compile allof them together and submit this idea to Joy in an email. Its time.

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Just send them to Mossad in Germania or another Risk associated continent.

Sasquatch321 said:

Tossing around a "Dans Story PT 2, New Questions with Answers"

Dan,

Thank you for being here and continuing the hope to find Jacob. You guessed it right Dan, tonight we have some new new questions to ask you-

1. Were you able to successfully grab some shut eye before you left for work the next morning?

2. Dan, when did you first tell anyone about all three unusual cars you saw that day?

3. Dan, when did you first tell anyone that you had unloaded a trunk full of boxes the next morning?

4. Dan, had you planned on replying to Pattys letter?

5. Dan, did you have anything to do with the abduction of Jacob Wetterling?

Feel free to add your own questions, i could compile allof them together and submit this idea to Joy in an email. Its time.

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Do you really think he's going to answer the last one "Oh, yes actually I did have something to do with the kidnapping. You got me. It's been 25 years so I will confess to some stranger on the internet".

And why go through Joy? Just email Dan the questions yourself if you really think he will answer them. His email address is public on the school district website.

I think some people have a lot of luck on their side at times. But in this case -- you know, I think there's "something" we can't see, such as -- a personal connection or --- something that has interfered with LE's objectivity and/or willingness to pursue the obvious. Maybe someone was the proverbial "big fish in a little pond" back then and "oh absolutely not I would never do such a thing, I wasn't talking in my right mind if/when I might have alluded to anything like that" etc. And if others were asked, perhaps LE heard, "oh no, he's a great guy, I saw him over here at such and such place having a drink/watching a game/hosting a trivia night at the Red Carpet Club/etc.

Trackergd said:

I am not sure what question you are asking here. The FBI had some basic print knowledge. I do know that in the 80's, Tom Brown was consulting for the FBI on a few cases. I have no idea what print knowledge the BCA had. I assume it was at least how to read the pattern in the print and match it to a brand and model shoe.

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In your post you talked about the experience of Stearns county , but the BCA and the FBI were involved right away. Remember, I posted about the Virginia Piper case in MN that was the largest ransom case ever. Maybe it still is. They are experienced in MN. The Pipers were connected to the ultra rich of MN.

You better believe the ultra rich were not happy that someone was kidnapped right out of their neighborhood in the daytime. Resources and experience.

Sasquatch is right, we can handle both/all persons of interest that may arise. I personally believe based on the info I've recently learned that the two cases are connected. But as I've said many times, like everyone else here I don't have a horse in this race just want the truth and want justice for Jacob and Jared. I would just like to say thank you to the posters here who have shared so much information thus tremendously expanding my knowledge and perspective on these cases. Joshua is near and dear to my heart but so are Jacob, Jared, Roger Ellison, all the college aged drowning victims and so many more. Of course I study the cases of female victims too, but for some reason the young men draw me, probably because it seems often time their cases fade into time. Someone here once said that there is a fate worse than death, and indeed I think being abducted, sexually molested and possibly tortured is horrible fate. Who would think so many unsolved sexual assaults could be so prominent in such a beautiful, relatively quiet area.

chaplain1 said:

Completely different MO. If sex is plan, abduct a child by himself.

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Patty and LE have confirmed that this was a sexually motivated crime.