CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 5

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

MissHaley said:
I agree, especially, since he first offered a guilty plea to avoid the DP! To me, that’s a clear indication of a “excuse” defense!

And it really bothers me that the jury will never hear that he offered this plea deal!

corundogs · May 14, 2015

MissHaley said:
I agree, especially, since he first offered a guilty plea to avoid the DP! To me, that’s a clear indication of a “excuse” defense!

And to tack onto that response...his extended education has given him the ability to understand HOW to act "insane".

And don't forget, in one of his applications for his Ph.D, he specifically mentions working with kids with mental illness and he wants to focus on that in his studies in order to help people like them!

There is just way too much out there that tells me this could very well be an act. Though we have LOTS of testimony from both sides left...and my opinion could be swayed. It would take a lot of work, but I am not ruling it out, at this point.

LyndyLoo · May 14, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
I do think its a strange way around things. If JH wants to say he is insane he should have to prove it. Anyone could just sit there and say they were insane if thats the case. Although it appears from that article that not many do.

"These defenses are commonly referred to as excuse defenses. Although rarely used, and seldom ever used successfully, the insanity defense has gained much public attention"

(quote from the article Hatfield referenced above)

BBM~~
Oh yes, there's been a history of this. In fact, I recall one case termed as "The twinkie Defence" which of course didn't work. But having watched many cases with Insanity defence, mostly failed in those States where Defence has to prove it versus Colorado's view. It's the reason the Prosecution can bring in so much evidence.

In States where Defence has to prove their CIC, Often Prosecution is limited by the Judge citing "piling on/cumulative" to prejudice the defendant..or something like that.

BTW~~ Good Morning (afternoon for you :love you

Maisie) :dance:

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

corundogs said:
And to tack onto that response...his extended education has given him the ability to understand HOW to act "insane".

And don't forget, in one of his applications for his Ph.D, he specifically mentions working with kids with mental illness and he wants to focus on that in his studies in order to help people like them!

There is just way too much out there that tells me this could very well be an act. Though we have LOTS of testimony from both sides left...and my opinion could be swayed. It would take a lot of work, but I am not ruling it out, at this point.

Didn't he work at summer camps for kids with mental issues? Or did I just make that up?

corundogs · May 14, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
Well i've head some mental health issues in the past and you didnt offend me

I think he can be released from a hospital once they decide he is no longer insane. I doubt it would take long for him to get his act together and persuade them he is well again. Therefore he will have the chance of a life whereas life without parole in prison = never walking free.

I guess that is something that will need to be answered. Either here - because I know there are very smart people here who would know the answer to this - or in court.

But in my head, I have it in there that no one would allow him to walk free again. Even if "cured" by medications, therapies, etc. Because they would have NO WAY to determine if he would stay on his meds, etc. And I just don't think any doctor or facility could take that chance.

Does anyone know one way or another how that works?

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

LyndyLoo said:
BBM~~
Oh yes, there's been a history of this. In fact, I recall one case termed as "The twinkie Defence" which of course didn't work. But having watched many cases with Insanity defence, mostly failed in those States where Defence has to prove it versus Colorado's view. It's the reason the Prosecution can bring in so much evidence.

In States where Defence has to prove their CIC, Often Prosecution is limited by the Judge citing "piling on/cumulative" to prejudice the defendant..or something like that.

BTW~~ Good Morning (afternoon for you :love you Maisie) :dance:

Good afternoon!

corundogs · May 14, 2015

LyndyLoo said:
BBM~~
Oh yes, there's been a history of this. In fact, I recall one case termed as "The twinkie Defence" which of course didn't work. But having watched many cases with Insanity defence, mostly failed in those States where Defence has to prove it versus Colorado's view. It's the reason the Prosecution can bring in so much evidence.

In States where Defence has to prove their CIC, Often Prosecution is limited by the Judge citing "piling on/cumulative" to prejudice the defendant..or something like that.

BTW~~ Good Morning (afternoon for you :love you Maisie) :dance:

Yup! That was a San Francisco murder trial...and I was 10 at the time, and thought it was so funny! I lived about 30 miles away, so it was highly publicized here. He ate too many Twinkies and sugary food, and it made him crazy!

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 5 minutes ago

One of Pettolina's many trips to the theater model on the floor of the #theatershooting courtroom today.

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 3 minutes ago

This testimony can get repetitive, but important to note that each impact could have wounded or killed someone -- or did. #theatershooting

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

corundogs said:
Yup! That was a San Francisco murder trial...and I was 10 at the time, and thought it was so funny! I lived about 30 miles away, so it was highly publicized here. He ate too many Twinkies and sugary food, and it made him crazy!

I have eaten a lot of sugary snacks in my time. In fact I ended up putting a lot of weight on and got Diabetes! I never attacked anyone though! Did that defence work?

corundogs · May 14, 2015

Maisiebelle said:
Didn't he work at summer camps for kids with mental issues? Or did I just make that up?

Well, sort of. LOL!! He did work at a summer camp. And some of those kids had mental issues. But the camp wasn't specifically for those with mental issues. Camp Max Straus serves a primarily non-Jewish population of low-income and disadvantaged youths through Jewish Big Brothers/Big Sisters from article http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation...fer_worked_closely_with_james_holmes_20120722

Just for those who haven't read this, here are the paragraphs where this is discussed - and it was these paragraphs that really solidified for me that he could be faking all of this, and has since the very beginning. This application is from October, 2010.

Other times I felt that I could be doing more. On average, two of the kids per cabin were clinically diagnosed with ADHD. One of the weeks, I mentored a kid with Schizophrenia. At 3:30 am he woke up and vacuumed the ceiling of our cabin. These kids were heavily medicated but this did not solver their problems, only create new ones. The medication changed them from highly energetic creative kids to lax beings who slept through the activities. I wanted to help them but couldn't. This is where neuroscience research becomes invaluable.

With a neuroscience doctorate there is even more to accomplish. Those most in need of an education including children and people with cognitive disabilities, can benefit from the results of research into the workings of learning, memory and brain-behavior relations. Indeed all aspects of society have the potential to gain from advancements in our understanding of learning and memory because we are all connected. We all share one brain, the human brain.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...30_075103_James Holmes records (redacted).pdf

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 3 minutes ago

Here's one of the images of other damage documented inside Theater 9.

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

corundogs said:
Well, sort of. LOL!! He did work at a summer camp. And some of those kids had mental issues. But the camp wasn't specifically for those with mental issues. Camp Max Straus serves a primarily non-Jewish population of low-income and disadvantaged youths through Jewish Big Brothers/Big Sisters from article http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation...fer_worked_closely_with_james_holmes_20120722

Just for those who haven't read this, here are the paragraphs where this is discussed - and it was these paragraphs that really solidified for me that he could be faking all of this, and has since the very beginning. This application is from October, 2010.

Other times I felt that I could be doing more. On average, two of the kids per cabin were clinically diagnosed with ADHD. One of the weeks, I mentored a kid with Schizophrenia. At 3:30 am he woke up and vacuumed the ceiling of our cabin. These kids were heavily medicated but this did not solver their problems, only create new ones. The medication changed them from highly energetic creative kids to lax beings who slept through the activities. I wanted to help them but couldn't. This is where neuroscience research becomes invaluable.

With a neuroscience doctorate there is even more to accomplish. Those most in need of an education including children and people with cognitive disabilities, can benefit from the results of research into the workings of learning, memory and brain-behavior relations. Indeed all aspects of society have the potential to gain from advancements in our understanding of learning and memory because we are all connected. We all share one brain, the human brain.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...30_075103_James Holmes records (redacted).pdf

I wonder if he 'learned' his behaviours from the children he worked with at that camp.

LyndyLoo · May 14, 2015

corundogs said:
Something I was thinking about again...brought up with that article posted and discussed about how the plea of insanity in Colorado works.

OK, let's play hypothetical here.

The Defense and JH win. He is ruled legally insane. He will be sentanced to a Psychiatric facility for the rest of his life. There is no one on God's Green Earth that would be OK with him getting out to live amongst the general population, no matter how well his meds work. (Let's say that is true too, though I am not entirely sure it is! But let's go with that!)

IMO, if I were the defendant/patient, I would rather be in prison than spend my life in a Psychiatric hospital!!! At least in prison, there is sort of a semblance of normalcy. They have rules and regulations, and are allowed small conveniences and luxuries.

In a psychiatric hospital, you are literally surrounded by "crazy" - every second of everyday! And I mean no disrespect, those people are as sick as someone with cancer. IMO, it would be harder to visit a psychiatric hospital than a prison. Not talking about my safety, but what I might see/hear/feel.

So while most of us want him to be found guilty...and may or may not want him to die by Death Penalty...IMO, I don't see a "win" to be in his favor.

I hope no one takes any offense to what I wrote here. I mean no disrespect to anyone!

I did some reading up on this..and it varies from State to State. If defendant claims "Temporary Insanity" it's more likely that he/she could very well get released..but if deemed "Insane" there's a lesser chance. Hinkley for example of that.

After each case decided that way..It always become a huge debate and question.."Why not have "Guilty but Insane" verdict"..which would mean, they get mental healthcare and when deemed sane they go to prison and serve out his sentence..But it never goes anyway it seems.

Here's a link which breaks down how "Insanity" gets judged by the Courts..

https://www.law.cornell.edu/background/insane/insanity.html

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 2 minutes ago

Staircase in Theater 9 where more bullet impacts were documented. #theatershooting

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Larry Ryckman ‏@larryryckman 37 seconds ago

Attorneys are doing a better job standing up today when addressing the court. Judge scolded them yesterday. #theatershooting

LyndyLoo · May 14, 2015

Will C. Holden ‏@will_c_holden 10m10 minutes ago
FYI, these are all the weekdays the #theatershooting court is taking off: May 1, 15, 22, 25; June 12; July 3, 17, 31; Aug 14, 20, 21; Sept 7

Here's the schedule into Sept. so you can mark your calendar :happydance:

corundogs · May 14, 2015

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/li...0810/20120810_060205_James_HolmesIll_App2.pdf

Here is another of JH's applications for a Ph.D program. This one from University of Illinois, which did offer him a position but he declined for the Colorado program we have all learned so much about.

It includes some of his test scores on the GRE.
Verbal 710 98%
Quantitative 800 94%
Analytical Writing 4.0 45%

I found that interesting, after what we have heard from so many of his Professors, especially the Analytical Writing part!

It has another of his personal statements, and the subject matter seems a bit different than the one to University of Iowa.

There is also 3 Letters of Recommendation, which I haven't seen before.

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Looks to me like JH is zoning out today....

Maisiebelle · May 14, 2015

Wow... when you see how narrow the corridor is leading out of the cinema you can get an understanding how people were afraid to try and run out...

CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 5

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