CO - James Holmes Trial Discussion - Begins April 27, 2015 # 7
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jilly
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Thanks! forgot about that...so maybe they didn't notice the cable!
jilly
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With the meds, yes! Makes sense to me!
Benny08
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The jury I was recently on you could tell the guy was restrained but couldn't really tell how. It seemed to me our guy had some sort of harness around his waist and his connected to his elbows, but it was all under clothes. Seems the way JH is restrained is much better appearance wise.
jilly
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Sounds like scary stuff.
So...yeah...with JH, it seems it's only noticeable when he moves.
jilly
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Thanks:blushing: but I only googled 'James Holmes chains' or something and that link came up. I knew I'd seen/heard something before.....most likely in a tweet.
Jinkasaurus
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I found this post by someone here at WS and thought you folks might find it interesting in light of the JH case -
The poster has experienced psychosis before and shares their insights into what its like having delusions - its on the Julie Schenecker case, but when I read it, it made me think of JH - link
The poster has experienced psychosis before and shares their insights into what its like having delusions - its on the Julie Schenecker case, but when I read it, it made me think of JH - link
Whiteorchids
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I wonder if he has the same restraints while being interviewed 22 hours with the Dr?
When I was taking a Mental Health Nursing class, I perused Reddit's Schizophrenia board and found it so fascinating. So many of the things I was learning could be seen in a lot of posts on that board. I found it particularly interesting how those that say they are diagnosed with schizophrenia were able to describe in detail what they were experiencing in the midst of psychosis.
Here is the link, if anyone is interested. r/schizophrenia/
jilly
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Good question.
jilly
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I am really looking forward to Fenton's testimony...like many others.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ines/201501/james-holmes-psychiatric-analysis
James Holmes: A Psychiatric Analysis
..... He was also under the care of university psychiatrist Lynne Fenton. What triggered his psychotic break is, at this time, unknown. His psychiatrist no doubt knew he was ill, and allegedly he shared homicidal thoughts (link is external) with her. After he stopped his therapy, he began to send her threatening text messages. She warned a campus police officer that he was a public threat (link is external), but failed to file an order for protective custody, warn any targeted victims or inform the police. Holmes mailed her a journal, full of details about how he was going to kill others, but allegedly that laid in the mailroom, unopened for days. How much she knew and when she knew it is at this time unclear.
In order to break patient confidentiality there must be a specific, credible threat against others, in which case the psychiatrist has a duty to give warning. In the precedent-setting 1976 Tarasoff vs Regents of the University of California, a patient confided to his therapist that he intended to kill a certain woman. After the patient murdered the woman, her family sued, but the psychotherapist insisted he wasn’t required to warn anyone who was not his patient and he was bound by patient confidentiality. California's Supreme Court disagreed and determined if the patient posed a danger, it was his duty to exercise precaution and warn the potential victim of that danger. True, Dr. Fenton mentioned her concerns with Holmes to campus police, but was that enough?.....
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ines/201501/james-holmes-psychiatric-analysis
James Holmes: A Psychiatric Analysis
..... He was also under the care of university psychiatrist Lynne Fenton. What triggered his psychotic break is, at this time, unknown. His psychiatrist no doubt knew he was ill, and allegedly he shared homicidal thoughts (link is external) with her. After he stopped his therapy, he began to send her threatening text messages. She warned a campus police officer that he was a public threat (link is external), but failed to file an order for protective custody, warn any targeted victims or inform the police. Holmes mailed her a journal, full of details about how he was going to kill others, but allegedly that laid in the mailroom, unopened for days. How much she knew and when she knew it is at this time unclear.
In order to break patient confidentiality there must be a specific, credible threat against others, in which case the psychiatrist has a duty to give warning. In the precedent-setting 1976 Tarasoff vs Regents of the University of California, a patient confided to his therapist that he intended to kill a certain woman. After the patient murdered the woman, her family sued, but the psychotherapist insisted he wasn’t required to warn anyone who was not his patient and he was bound by patient confidentiality. California's Supreme Court disagreed and determined if the patient posed a danger, it was his duty to exercise precaution and warn the potential victim of that danger. True, Dr. Fenton mentioned her concerns with Holmes to campus police, but was that enough?.....
Whiteorchids
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He did tell miss Fenton he wanted to kill people. He told his GF as well.
Whiteorchids
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There is a fine line between genius and madness
http://www.livescience.com/20713-genius-madness-connected.html
http://www.livescience.com/20713-genius-madness-connected.html
cujenn81
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A few thoughts about what I PERSONALLY took from JH’s notebook.
I believe JH struggled with an extreme form of social phobia/anxiety for most of his life. This would obviously be very difficult to deal with on a daily basis and probably caused him a great deal of anguish. He likely wondered... “Why am I like this? Why do I care about what other people think about me? Why can’t I be socially normal like everyone else? WHY ME?”
Because he isolated himself and lacked social interaction, he became depressed. He kept the depression to himself during therapy because “he didn’t want to look weak in front of his family” (as mentioned in his notebook). By keeping it all inside, his depression became unbearable and he began to look for the meaning of life and death.
I think he needed an absolute and definitive answer to his questions (why am I socially different from everyone else?), so he tried to answer them by using a subject he’s familiar with--mathematics. He assigned a value of “1” to himself and a value of “0” to “everyone else”. He used “0” for everyone else because “0” has no value/no difference from death (his words). I think this was also an attempt to justify murder in his mind. He said... if life has no value, all is just and actions have no impact on anything. He then listed possible alternatives but said they didn’t work and that he found no other alternatives.
The long list of “symptoms” was an attempt to make his problems seem worse than they actually were---another attempt to justify his obsession. He believed he would have to kill his soul to fix his mind, but he wasn't willing to do that to have a “normal” mind… so instead, he embraced the hatred he feels for mankind... yet another justification.
I believe he was also placing blame on the antidepressants, claiming they motivated him to embrace his hatred because he no longer feared consequences. He said he has always had a hatred for mankind but it was suppressed by his greater fear of others. Now that he no longer fears the consequences, his hate has been anchored.
Then he once again attempts to justify his future actions by asking why would God command his people not to murder but cower behind free will? He uses the word COWER because that’s really what HE is… a coward.
I believe he hates mankind because they make him feel weak. He isn’t strong enough to overcome his inadequate social skills and can’t accept the fact that other people are able to live fulfilling, social lives when he can’t. He was too weak and cowardly to kill himself, so he killed others. He believed he could gain significance in the eyes of others, despite his obvious social shortcomings, by impacting them through the murder of their loved ones.
JMO.
I believe JH struggled with an extreme form of social phobia/anxiety for most of his life. This would obviously be very difficult to deal with on a daily basis and probably caused him a great deal of anguish. He likely wondered... “Why am I like this? Why do I care about what other people think about me? Why can’t I be socially normal like everyone else? WHY ME?”
Because he isolated himself and lacked social interaction, he became depressed. He kept the depression to himself during therapy because “he didn’t want to look weak in front of his family” (as mentioned in his notebook). By keeping it all inside, his depression became unbearable and he began to look for the meaning of life and death.
I think he needed an absolute and definitive answer to his questions (why am I socially different from everyone else?), so he tried to answer them by using a subject he’s familiar with--mathematics. He assigned a value of “1” to himself and a value of “0” to “everyone else”. He used “0” for everyone else because “0” has no value/no difference from death (his words). I think this was also an attempt to justify murder in his mind. He said... if life has no value, all is just and actions have no impact on anything. He then listed possible alternatives but said they didn’t work and that he found no other alternatives.
The long list of “symptoms” was an attempt to make his problems seem worse than they actually were---another attempt to justify his obsession. He believed he would have to kill his soul to fix his mind, but he wasn't willing to do that to have a “normal” mind… so instead, he embraced the hatred he feels for mankind... yet another justification.
I believe he was also placing blame on the antidepressants, claiming they motivated him to embrace his hatred because he no longer feared consequences. He said he has always had a hatred for mankind but it was suppressed by his greater fear of others. Now that he no longer fears the consequences, his hate has been anchored.
Then he once again attempts to justify his future actions by asking why would God command his people not to murder but cower behind free will? He uses the word COWER because that’s really what HE is… a coward.
I believe he hates mankind because they make him feel weak. He isn’t strong enough to overcome his inadequate social skills and can’t accept the fact that other people are able to live fulfilling, social lives when he can’t. He was too weak and cowardly to kill himself, so he killed others. He believed he could gain significance in the eyes of others, despite his obvious social shortcomings, by impacting them through the murder of their loved ones.
JMO.
Whiteorchids
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I think you are correct with your interpretation. It makes complete sense as to his writings in the notebook. obviously he was riddled with mental illness that made him think this way. I do believe he is a coward. I just cannot for the life of me know why he thought a massacre would be justifiable. He did write he has narcissistic symptoms. Thats obvious .
Do you think he has one or a combination of Schizophrenia, bi-polar with psychotic features and depression?
Do you think he was insane at the time of the event? I'm curious
cujenn81
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I personally don't believe he has schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. I think he suffered from depression, social anxiety, possibly some form of adjustment disorder, and possibly schizotypal personality disorder. I don't believe he was legally insane at the time of the event though.
Can you elaborate on why you don't think he meets the criteria for shizophrenia or bipolar disorder?
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