The Bonfire

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missy1974 said:
IIRC the summaries I read do not say he was asked and denied. He does talk about a fire the week before TH was there.... was he asked when the last time he had a fire was? Who knows!

IMO summaries suck LOL I would rather see an actual transcript or hear the audio.


ETA: can you imagine if they had just put out a summary of Brendan's interviews???? if we had never seen the video's, would most of us be as outraged?
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I remember vaguely hearing about this case a long time ago and thought him and his nephew were guilt. Nancy Grace did her special on MaM saying they were both guilty. Knowing her predisposition for not getting her facts straight, I decided to watch the documentary. I'm still not sure about Avery's innocence but I'm outraged by what happened to Brendan. He's nothing more than a victim of terrible investigators, defense attorneys and prosecutors. Sickening!
 
Tawny said:
So SA apparently never mentions the fire, but did he ever deny it? I'm SO freaking confused now!!
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I do recall Fassbender or Wiegert told Dassey Avery was completely denying there was ever a fire there that night but that could easily be a lie. But as far as I can tell (since Avery didn't testify) he's been denying it.
 
sinsaint said:
i tried to look through as many as i could last night. Blaine, bobby and scott never mentioned to fire early on. I can't find interviews for ca, ea or fabian. Scott appears to be the first to mention a fire at avery's in his november 29th interview. It should be noted... On another website there is an accusation that the police were badgering janda and her children. One incident involved the cops showing up at a restaurant to confront janda/kids. Scott's first interview where he mentions a fire took place was at... A restaurant.

There are only three options for why no one mentioned the fire early on.

A) everyone knew avery was burning her and were covering for him.
B) fires on the property are so common they are easy to forget.
C) there was no fire that night.
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bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
 
ElleElle said:
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
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According to BD interview, SA was going to keep putting things into the fire pit and when it got full was going to bury it and start over? I'm really interested to know what key people were doing on nov 1 and nov 2nd before she was reported missing. I'd like to know if there was a fire how many days was it burning.
 
Justiceseeker35 said:
According to BD interview, SA was going to keep putting things into the fire pit and when it got full was going to bury it and start over? I'm really interested to know what key people were doing on nov 1 and nov 2nd before she was reported missing. I'd like to know if there was a fire how many days was it burning.
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There is no evidence the fire was burning for multiple days which is what it would take to get the bones in the condition they were found in.
 
Part 3 ~ Plight of the Accused
@ the 32 minute mark.

Steven is talking to his sister on the phone and he says "We had the bonfire...."


ETA: I believe he is innocent.
 
Madeleine74 said:
In one of the recorded phone calls between BD and his mother Barb, BD admits to his mother he did participate in the crime that day. No one from LE was coercing BD during that call. Barb gets really upset and asks him why and why he (BD) didn't come to her (Barb).

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...cript_of_brendan_dassey_phone_call_to_mother/
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Except that... it was LE who suggested he call his mother and "tell her what he did." (see Episode 4)

Fassbender: Mark mentioned talking to your mom about this and being truthful with her now. OK? If you're truly sorry, you'll tell your mother the truth about this, OK?​

And this was at the very end of their interrogation. Otherwise put, afaics, the purpose of getting him to call was to have him on tape making the same "coerced" confession he had just made to them.
 
Sinsaint said:
There is no evidence the fire was burning for multiple days which is what it would take to get the bones in the condition they were found in.
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That isn't what the expert testified to. He said over five tires were used and it would take hours not multiple days.

Additionally, Rodney Pevytoe, who worked with the Arson Bureau at the Wisconsin Department of Justice, testified regarding his work in investigating the burn pit. He found wiring from in excess of five steel-belted radial tires in the burn pit. He found bone fragments "inside the wire, deeply inside of it in some cases [...] to the point where I actually had to, physically, pull apart the wire in order to get it there." The bones could not have been thrown on top of the wires after having been burned- they were most definitely burned with the tires found in the burn pit. He also testifies to the heat generated by tire fires, stating the average tire can generate twice the amount of BTUs that an average home furnace does, and the polyurethane foam found in the van seat also burned in the fire is referred to as "solid gasoline" by fire investigators. Burning a body in a fire pit, accelerated by tires and polyurethane foam, would've been possible and taken several hours. There were also a number of implements found near the fire, with evidence of charring and oxidation, that clearly had been used in the fire pit at some point. A rake, which could've been used to stir the fire and had wires from steel-belted tires in its teeth, and a spade and screwdriver, which could've been used to chop up bones as the fire died down, where all found near the pit with evidence of charring. The soil in the pit was consistent with what soil looks like after being exposed to the oils from burning tires. -

See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evidence-planted/#sthash.8Hp6BUeh.dpuf
 
Madeleine74 said:
In one of the recorded phone calls between BD and his mother Barb, BD admits to his mother he did participate in the crime that day. No one from LE was coercing BD during that call. Barb gets really upset and asks him why and why he (BD) didn't come to her (Barb).

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...cript_of_brendan_dassey_phone_call_to_mother/
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yeah and the day before is when that douchebag of an investigator got him to "admit" it, right? And then set up a meeting with the investigators the next day, WITHOUT HIS LAWYER, and then the investigators were telling him that he should really call his mom and tell her everything he just told them, because geee, they didn't want to have to be the one's that told her, they would much rather it be him. They played this kid.... they got him to call his mom and tell her these things so they would have it on record. No doubt in my mind about that. JMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
That isn't what the expert testified to. He said over five tires were used and it would take hours not multiple days.

Additionally, Rodney Pevytoe, who worked with the Arson Bureau at the Wisconsin Department of Justice, testified regarding his work in investigating the burn pit. He found wiring from in excess of five steel-belted radial tires in the burn pit. He found bone fragments "inside the wire, deeply inside of it in some cases [...] to the point where I actually had to, physically, pull apart the wire in order to get it there." The bones could not have been thrown on top of the wires after having been burned- they were most definitely burned with the tires found in the burn pit. He also testifies to the heat generated by tire fires, stating the average tire can generate twice the amount of BTUs that an average home furnace does, and the polyurethane foam found in the van seat also burned in the fire is referred to as "solid gasoline" by fire investigators. Burning a body in a fire pit, accelerated by tires and polyurethane foam, would've been possible and taken several hours. There were also a number of implements found near the fire, with evidence of charring and oxidation, that clearly had been used in the fire pit at some point. A rake, which could've been used to stir the fire and had wires from steel-belted tires in its teeth, and a spade and screwdriver, which could've been used to chop up bones as the fire died down, where all found near the pit with evidence of charring. The soil in the pit was consistent with what soil looks like after being exposed to the oils from burning tires. -

See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evidence-planted/#sthash.8Hp6BUeh.dpuf
Click to expand...


Can you show me this pictures that prove the bones were twisted with the tire belts. the picture of the tire belts I see have a screwdriver under these wires or belts they talk about. however the screw driver not being burnt and the belts above them. since its testified that having tires in a fire on top or underneath a body would make it hot enough to burn the body to pieces but leave this screwdriver in the mud? Since its under the belts I would go as far as saying that when they moved the bones maybe one or two of the five tire belts found were used at the ORIGINAL burn pit and then placed in the burn pit with the crispy ready to burn leaves also surrounding the pit. Since they took no such pictures of actual bones in the dirt where they lied its hard to say if they are being truthful. Why are there no pictures cause in this case against Avery they deviated from many protocols.

New Pictures posted here BTW
http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/
 
oceanblueeyes said:
That isn't what the expert testified to. He said over five tires were used and it would take hours not multiple days.


See more at: http://stevenaverycase.com/was-evidence-planted/#sthash.8Hp6BUeh.dpuf
Click to expand...

RSBM that is the person who runs that website's opinion of the testimony. Just as an example, here is the full testimony about the wires/bones.

DAY 18 page 60-61
A. That's correct. They were entwined in there to the point where I actually had to physically, so to speak, separate and try to recover. They weren't right on the surface easily removed. But they were into the depth of the wire at times.

Q. And you can think of possibilities of how that might have happened, one would be that a body had been atop a -- an intact tire at the time that both were burned?

A. That's one possibility.

Q. That's one possibility. Another possibility would be that the tires already had been burned at some earlier time and a body was atop that layer? That's the second possibility?

A. That's a possibility.

Q. A third possibility would be that bone fragments,after the body was burned, not on top of the wires, bone fragments could have been moved into the wires or tossed into the wires, somehow disturbed, so that they were introduced into the wire mesh you have described?

A. That's a possibility, yes.

Q. And we probably could go on, but the reality is, you can't narrow down to any one of the possibilities we could identify?

A. That's correct.
 
Realistically speaking, the only people whose opinions counted in the trial were the 12 jurors who were impaneled to hear the case. And beyond that the only other opinions that count are the state appellate judges and the state supreme court judges. No one has to prove the case to people on the Interwebs, nor can they, since the only thing the public has to work with are some interview notes, trial transcripts, and a few pictures of evidence.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Realistically speaking, the only people whose opinions counted in the trial were the 12 jurors who were impaneled to hear the case. And beyond that the only other opinions that count are the state appellate judges and the state supreme court judges. No one has to prove the case to people on the Interwebs, nor can they, since the only thing the public has to work with are some interview notes, trial transcripts, and a few pictures of evidence.
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Close up the threads, everybody go home.
 
talking about the jury....
here is an interview that Jerry Buting did with a New Zealand radio station, it's good. They ask him about having 2 jurors that were related to Manitowoc LE/Clerks office.... Buting says, we had to keep those 2, so you can imagine how bad the others were! (they were only able to strike 6) Those 2 shouldn't have even been in the short list for jury selection IMO
http://www.zmonline.com/shows/fletc...nterview-jerry-buting-from-making-a-murderer/
 
Madeleine74 said:
Realistically speaking, the only people whose opinions counted in the trial were the 12 jurors who were impaneled to hear the case. And beyond that the only other opinions that count are the state appellate judges and the state supreme court judges. No one has to prove the case to people on the Interwebs, nor can they, since the only thing the public has to work with are some interview notes, trial transcripts, and a few pictures of evidence.
Click to expand...

That might be true, strictly speaking, but we are not, in "court", and I would like to think that Zellner, Strang, buting, SA and his family, BD and his family and a whole lot of people around the world, who feel something is terribly wrong with what happened in this case, also have opinions that matter.

Believe it or not, sometimes the system gets things wrong. When that happens other opinions do and should "count" if we expect to change things.
 
missy1974 said:
RSBM that is the person who runs that website's opinion of the testimony. Just as an example, here is the full testimony about the wires/bones.

DAY 18 page 60-61
A. That's correct. They were entwined in there to the point where I actually had to physically, so to speak, separate and try to recover. They weren't right on the surface easily removed. But they were into the depth of the wire at times.

Q. And you can think of possibilities of how that might have happened, one would be that a body had been atop a -- an intact tire at the time that both were burned?

A. That's one possibility.

Q. That's one possibility. Another possibility would be that the tires already had been burned at some earlier time and a body was atop that layer? That's the second possibility?

A. That's a possibility.

Q. A third possibility would be that bone fragments,after the body was burned, not on top of the wires, bone fragments could have been moved into the wires or tossed into the wires, somehow disturbed, so that they were introduced into the wire mesh you have described?

A. That's a possibility, yes.

Q. And we probably could go on, but the reality is, you can't narrow down to any one of the possibilities we could identify?

A. That's correct.
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13 Q. Okay. You mentioned something about tires, do

14 they give off a lot of energy when they burn?

15 A. Yes, they are a very good source of energy, heat

16 energy.

17 Q. Do you have any idea?

18 A. Well, the one pound of tire gives you roughly

19 15,000 BTUs of energy. The average passenger

20 tire, according to the tire manufacturers, think

21 it's about 20 pounds. So depending on the

22 orientation and a few other things, you are

23 looking at about 300,000 BTUs per tire.
 
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oceanblueeyes said:
13 Q. Okay. You mentioned something about tires, do

14 they give off a lot of energy when they burn?

15 A. Yes, they are a very good source of energy, heat

16 energy.

17 Q. Do you have any idea?

18 A. Well, the one pound of tire gives you roughly

19 15,000 BTUs of energy. The average passenger

20 tire, according to the tire manufacturers, think

21 it's about 20 pounds. So depending on the

22 orientation and a few other things, you are

23 looking at about 300,000 BTUs per tire.
Click to expand...

These are figures that explain the maximum amount of energy/heat output the tires will give off. What it doesn't explain is that that fuel source will quickly consume itself and not be able to sustain the high temperatures required to cremate a body for the time required to cremate a body.

Say, for arguments sake, I kill someone and decide to burn them up. I need to have a heat source available to me that can maintain temperatures between 1400 to 2000 degrees for at least four hours. I burn a tire and get my fire going to 2000 degrees and put the body on. Fifteen, twenty minutes later my fire starts dipping below 1400 degrees. Add another tire or two. My fire builds a massive amount of heat but my fuel source quickly burned itself out. Five tires later and all my fuel gone I'm only about two hours into it and the body still isn't cremated.

The only way I could be convinced she was burned in that pit is if someone did a study and concluded that five tires could sustain 2000 degree heat for the amount of time required to cremate a body in an open air pit.
 
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