George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

Status
Not open for further replies.
I GZ made his report and stayed in the truck, no murder would have happened.
The police I am sure are capable in their jobs. But GZ thinks the bad guys always get away. IMO

See you don't know that. TM had approached near by the car earlier. .. What if he was sitting in the car or by the car and TM had gone after him there?

A lot of maybes and supposes. We really need to stay with what is.. OMO
 
can you please show what evidence - besides gz's words that tm was the aggressor and started the fight??? there isn't any except gz's testimony, and gz has already changed stories and also been caught in lies - bail hearing where he lied about $$ and his wife was charged with perjury - that i can't believe gz's testimony - imo - and i don't understand why ppkl are so quick to believe gz even though he has been caught in many untruths already

And there isn't any evidence whatsoever that TM wasn't the aggressor. As far as lies, there have been lies on both sides, so why do you believe one lie over another?
 
Originally Lead Detective Chris Serino said they had a case but I think by then the State was afraid to bring a charge against GZ.

Not in my opinion, the State should have called all Pro Prosecution witnesses to begin with. They do exist. IMO

If I recall he said he wanted to charge Manslaughter not murder2.. OMO
 
Oh no, a 17 year old was smoking weed. What has this world come to?
 
The only person saying that TM attacked, slammed GZ's head into the concrete, and beat him about the head and face upwards to 25-30 times is the defendant himself.
The medical evidence has not supported the extent of GZ's recounting of the episode. It is also fairly obvious (no wounds on any part of either GZ's hands, legs, shoulders, or arms.) He did not try to fight fair...if there even was a "fight."

It is IMO, GZ grabbed TM, then TM either pushed off, elbowed or punched GZ in a third effort to get away from the creepy following man. At that point, it is IMO, that GZ slipped in the wet grass, while pulling TM down with him. And, that the scrapes GZ got come at that time. It is also IMO, that TM may have then tried to hold GZ down so that GZ could not get out the gun that, IMO, TM saw at some point in time before or as John Good came outside.

It is alo IMO that John Good said he couldn't tell if GZ was wearing Red or White and prior to that whether the were dogs fighting. Yet, in the dark John Good says he could see that the darker completed person was on top...even though he states he witnessed this from the side.

Also, IMO, I find it very difficult to believe that poor GZ who was in fear of his life could push a nearly dead TM off and nearly five feet away but couldn't get out from under TM when he was stilll alive. GZ outweighed TM by a good 40lbs. All IMO.
 
And I will say it is a VERY sad day when teenagers are committing a lot of crimes and even alleged JUMPING ON AND BEATING neighborhood folks that are keeping an eye on them only have society say well even if the teen jumped on GZ and beat him it ain't no big deal, teens do that these days and shouldn't be judged harshly for it..

IMO opinion may here have said "well the injuries on GZ weren't that bad" which in MY MIND basically means they are ADMITTING they think TM jumped him but they don't care! Yes it is a very sad day when our society has learned to make excuses for attacks of that nature.

IMO.

<mod snip>

There is no evidence that Trayvon jumped GZ. IMO. <mod snip> I am not of the mindset that because one sees GZ's injuries aren't that bad, that I believe and am admitting that Trayvon "jumped" GZ.

I don't believe Trayvon jumped GZ! I do agree that GZ's injuries are not even close to having your head beat on the concrete. The story, IMO, doesn't add up for GZ.
 
See, I always thought it was possible that TM was grabbed and that he could have elbowed GZ in the face (lack of bruising on his hands). Unfortunately, we will never know what really went down. You have the victim who is dead and the defendant who is trying to save himself from going to prison.

Before RJ's testimony, I would have agreed that your theory is an unprovable possibility. But now that we know TM made it back to the father's girlfriend's house, IMO, it is not logistically possible. TM would have been heading toward GZ, not the other way around, so I don't see GZ reaching out to grab TM from behind and getting elbowed. I see GZ as being startled and not ready for a confrontation. Because of RJ's testimony, I now truly believe TM was the pursuer and GZ was the pursued. JMO. OMO. MOO.

At one point, West suggested that though Martin told her he was by his father's fiancee's house while Zimmerman was following him, that she doesn't know that for sure.

"Why he need to lie about that, sir?" Jeantel asked West.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...jeantel-george-zimmerman-trial_n_3509141.html
 
I am curious about something and understand, this is just speculation. No proof whatsoever. Rachel testified that she didn't come forward or go to the funeral because she felt guilty TM was dead. Why? Now, I know she admitted lying about being in the hospital at the time of his funeral. But what IF....IF....she was on the phone telling him to attack GZ and go after him? What if TM felt he should do it to impress this girl so he didn't look weak? You all know where I am going. IMO. MOO. Just curious.
I do and I have had the same sad feeling since the first time I heard her testify. :twocents:
 
The prosecution looks bad IMO because they never had a case. So the state's witnesses "were pro defense anyway?" Still more reason the case should never have been brought.
In a way I agree...the whole "Stand Your Ground" take from the beginning tainted everything and determined how this would play out, IMO. Not that I think it was right (they should never have "assumed" it was nothing more, IMO)...this case was just not handled properly.
 
From what I understand that is mere hearsay, that the police were never notified of anything Trayvon Martin was allegedly accused of. IMO
Plus, most juveneile records in the United States are sealed....no matter if they are fatally shot dead or not...so it's not a matter of what any Judge will allow or disallow. IMO

http://www.pdmiami.com/FAQs_Seal_and_Expunge.pdf
http://www.recordgone.com/florida/juvenile-record-sealing/

Of course when there is not a particle of evidence that any police record even exists...the question is moot. IMO
Your understanding is incorrect. His school district had it's own police dept (Miami-Dade School Police Department) and there was quite an investigation re: leaks of TM's records to the Miami Herald. There are official records online from that IA investigation that spell out what those records were and testimony by those who were involved in the incidents - these statements were made by police officers under oath in deposition. They also went into detail about how and why the incidents were classified as they were, and not criminally prosecuted. It was all very political and disturbing (IMO) because the policy's focus was primarily about improving crime statistics rather than helping kids headed for trouble. But the facts are there, the depositions are online and not that hard to find. Not rumor and no question.
Since then, after many requests from the defense, the state did turn over those records along the social media evidence. The judge has so far denied the state's request to enter any of it into evidence but both sides have them.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-05-23/news/os-george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-20130523_1_zimmerman-case-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman
 
Years ago I was shopping in John Wanamakers for a black tie dress with my 3 then small children, one being in a stroller. I was hurrying as it was almost dinner time. I was going through a rack and looked up to see the store security undercover men 2 racks over watching me. I was so upset when it dawned on me what they were doing, I put everything back and left the store. Then I got furious. I called the store and told them what had happened. They sent me a gift certificate.

My point is, no one likes to be followed or profiled or under suscpision when they are doing what they consider normal. If TM felt angry like I did, I could see him confronting GZ. I was a lot older than 17, but I regret not confronting those men when I was there. I would never have touched them, but my voice sure would have been heard.
 
I do think the state has been so far able to show that Zimmerman had no life threatening injuries and none significant enough to make him fear for his life. No internal injuries, no stitches, nose injury not bad enough to interfere with breathing...so Nada. IMO AND he had a gun all along...and he was in pursuit....BUT, they need to highlight these points often and strongly.IMO
 
Well that is in your mind. What I am thinking when I say that his injuries aren't that bad -- and I do say that -- is that this does not support GZ's stories about being severely battered and afraid he was going to die. IMO, GZ confronted Trayvon, failed to tell him he was with neighborhood watch and wanted to know if he had a legitimate reason for being in the neighborhood, attempted to restrain him, and Trayvon defended himself as he had a right to do. I think George Zimmerman then shot him. I do not think that Trayvon jumped him.

We need to go with the law here.. And the law does not say he has to have bad injuries. HE does not have to be injured at all to have a good solid case for self defense.. People want him to be injured more but if he was, he could in fact be the one that is dead.
TM could have beaten him so bad that he caused him to pass out and then took the gun and shot GZ.

So the fact that people don't believe his injuries are relevant really does not matter. He does not even have to be in fear for his life, Just great bodily harm. I will find the link but I looked it up the other day after Beth Karas tweeted about the law in FL.

The fact is that GZ has the injuries and TM did not. The fact is that a neighbor saw TM beating on GZ and said GZ was calling for help.


WE need to stick with fact.

OMO
 
I agree, I don't think I have ever heard anyone testify like this in all my years of watching trials. It was surreal. He wouldn't listen to the prosecutor's questions, the defense attorney's questions, or the judge's repeated instructions! He had things he wanted to say and he insisted on saying them.

All he wanted to do was talk about the case "from three weeks ago". He went on and on how it will be an important paper yada yada yada....I guess no one here has any idea what that other case was about?
 
Thread closing in 10 minutes
 
Your understanding is incorrect. His school district had it's own police dept (Miami-Dade School Police Department) and there was quite an investigation re: leaks of TM's records to the Miami Herald. There are official records online from that IA investigation that spell out what those records were and testimony by those who were involved in the incidents - these statements were made by police officers under oath in deposition. They also went into detail about how and why the incidents were classified as they were, and not criminally prosecuted. It was all very political and disturbing (IMO) because the policy's focus was primarily about improving crime statistics rather than helping kids headed for trouble. But the facts are there, the depositions are online and not that hard to find. Not rumor and no question.
Since then, after many requests from the defense, the state did turn over those records along the social media evidence. The judge has so far denied the state's request to enter any of it into evidence but both sides have them.

Levity, common sense, and a search for the truth. Maybe the prosecution should have sought the WHOLE truth before putting on a political prosection. IMO.
 
None of this horrible crime would have happened had GZ kept himself from following TM and getting out of his vehicle as was told to him TWICE "we don't need you to do that".
GZ put himself in the defense chair by his own hand.

While I'm at it I'd like to say anyone armed with a concealed weapon isn't going to scream for their life as Trayvon did.

Common sense prevail's in my mind.
 
The only person saying that TM attacked, slammed GZ's head into the concrete, and beat him about the head and face upwards to 25-30 times is the defendant himself.
The medical evidence has not supported the extent of GZ's recounting of the episode. It is also fairly obvious (no wounds on any part of either GZ's hands, legs, shoulders, or arms.) He did not try to fight fair...if there even was a "fight."

It is IMO, GZ grabbed TM, then TM either pushed off, elbowed or punched GZ in a third effort to get away from the creepy following man. At that point, it is IMO, that GZ slipped in the wet grass, while pulling TM down with him. And, that the scrapes GZ got come at that time. It is also IMO, that TM may have then tried to hold GZ down so that GZ could not get out the gun that, IMO, TM saw at some point in time before or as John Good came outside.

It is alo IMO that John Good said he couldn't tell if GZ was wearing Red or White and prior to that whether the were dogs fighting. Yet, in the dark John Good says he could see that the darker completed person was on top...even though he states he witnessed this from the side.

Also, IMO, I find it very difficult to believe that poor GZ who was in fear of his life could push a nearly dead TM off and nearly five feet away but couldn't get out from under TM when he was stilll alive. GZ outweighed TM by a good 40lbs. All IMO.

No. The neighbor John saw it and said it was GZ calling to him for help. HE ran into call 911. It is okay to add the facts together so they suit your theory but you have to at least start with all the correct evidence and facts.
 
I've been following this very close and reading here since this happened just wondering everyone's thoughts on what the verdict will be? Would love to hear everyone's thoughts!!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
88
Guests online
3,403
Total visitors
3,491

Forum statistics

Threads
592,284
Messages
17,966,599
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top