IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #33

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candi123 said:
If and I say IF your speculation were true why would MB allow himself to be named one of the last to see Lauren? Why insert himself into the mix by saying he tucked CR into bed and then walked Lauren to JR's? But, then again MB's story is every changing. No?
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good questions. why would he "insert" himself? Maybe he's not inserting himself anywhere, but was right in the middle of the situation from the get-go. 3 clues that he might be in it because he shared drugs w. Lauren:

a) he emphasizes that he was studying, but wasn't home when Lauren and CR got home, he was over at JR's. IMO, he was doing some adderall or adderall like substance
and could have shared it with Lauren, something like vyvanse which definitely mixes poorly w. alcohol or any other drug. If he is using the paper due for an excuse for the drug and possibly had a legal script for this type of drug, he could also say he was upstairs helping CR and Lauren helped herself to this drug that was legally prescribed to him.

b) the weird reference to hearing a possible burglars. He didn't describe the sounds he heard, but it might have included hearing someone call for help, either CR or Lauren,
and he could be covering up the noises that neighbors might have heard with this excuse. Maybe he saw a neighbor outside and thought of that excuse.

c) saying that Lauren asked him to party and he refused. Makes him sound real innocent and studious and makes Lauren look bad. Makes it look like any recently ingested drugs that may show up in her system if she were to be found must have been her's.
 
The alternative is he inserted himself because he didn't ask JR not to mention her being at his and CRs apartment and was actually telling what happened from his perspective?
 
The finding the wrislet part by the one guy and then the other putting it on the rail later stuck out in my mind when it was first reported. The two finders, were they at the parties at 5N, SW, or 10th & College that night or early am. Didn't the 2nd finder put it on rail like closer to daybreak? This has always bothered me because it seems like a way for these two to let LE know that they weren't involved in what bad outcome may have happened but they knew that some heavy duty "partying", bad behavior, potential for problems that night could have occurred. Hope this makes sense.
 
Seems they were up and observant during LSs trips through the alley until the wee hours as well. Wonder if either of them resemble the eyewitness's mystery man?
 
MaHouston, Yes, I wondering too. The sharp pointy features, dark skinned or something to those words is what I recall from eyewitness description. Polo shirt? Maybe Ixchel can chime in. I think the finders were named.
 
Just bugs me that they both saw the wrislet. They must have been fairly cognizant unlike most that night.
 
It's been a while since I've check in on Lauren's case - though I have been following from the sidelines. I put a lot of effort into trying to overlay the reported timelines with an aerial view of the area. I've little input on it since and I'm wondering if I can get some of you (fresh eyes) to look it over and to give your input on how it can be improved. Thanks in advance.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53065&d=138335471516524.jpg
 
Chuz, Your excellent skills on this map so appreciated. :tyou:
Looking at your map now, after digesting posts, it sure seems plausible for LS to have indeed rounded the corner as JR indicated, and perhaps, got entangled with someone near 10th and College where something not good happened.
 
Chuz Life said:
It's been a while since I've check in on Lauren's case - though I have been following from the sidelines. I put a lot of effort into trying to overlay the reported timelines with an aerial view of the area. I've little input on it since and I'm wondering if I can get some of you (fresh eyes) to look it over and to give your input on how it can be improved. Thanks in advance.


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53065&d=1383354715View attachment 63827
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whoa, excellent map! Didn't know SW had an inner courtyard. In your map, you can see the inner courtyard, accessable from the arcade but not the alley, at 10th and C.
And I really like that you can see the 3 inner courtyards I always talk about at 10th and the Villages. You can access them from the alley CR and LS are seen on camera walking up, and each courtyard has a gate that opens up to Morton St. The northern most gate is right around the corner from the gravel parking lot CR and LS can be seen heading towards, and right past the gravel lot is the back of 5N and just feet from CR's apt.
best map ever. welcome back Chuz!
 
monkey222 said:
Chuz, Your excellent skills on this map so appreciated. :tyou:
Looking at your map now, after digesting posts, it sure seems plausible for LS to have indeed rounded the corner as JR indicated, and perhaps, got entangled with someone near 10th and College where something not good happened.
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I agree that it is possible that everything happened the way Mike Beth claimed. But I have my doubts about it too.

For one, the balcony that Beth supposedly watched Lauren from was pretty much inline with the trees along the street to the east. There is a light on the side of the building that would have been hard to see past as well. but, let's say that he could see her walking down the street towards "College Ave" and round the corner. She was obviously drunk and or drugged, she was injured from falling several times, she was barefoot and he KNEW she didn't even have her keys or any way to get back into her building (Smallwood.) What kind of person just shrugs that off and lets a petite young girl walk away into the darkness like that?
 
Chuz Life said:
I agree that it is possible that everything happened the way Mike Beth claimed. But I have my doubts about it too.

For one, the balcony that Beth supposedly watched Lauren from was pretty much inline with the trees along the street to the east. There is a light on the side of the building that would have been hard to see past as well. but, let's say that he could see her walking down the street towards "College Ave" and round the corner. She was obviously drunk and or drugged, she was injured from falling several times, she was barefoot and he KNEW she didn't even have her keys or any way to get back into her building (Smallwood.) What kind of person just shrugs that off and lets a petite young girl walk away into the darkness like that?
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Thanks for a very detailed map. Just a small correction. It was JR who says he watched her from the balcony not MB. I have often wondered if the bar manager saw them at point #14-#15 instead of at #10 on your map and then went down that alley. Thanks again for your work.
 
Chuz Life said:
It's been a while since I've check in on Lauren's case - though I have been following from the sidelines. I put a lot of effort into trying to overlay the reported timelines with an aerial view of the area. I've little input on it since and I'm wondering if I can get some of you (fresh eyes) to look it over and to give your input on how it can be improved. Thanks in advance.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=53065&d=1383354715View attachment 63827
Click to expand...

Very well done map! I didn't realize that Smallwood has a courtyard either. Two, hopefully constructive, criticisms. I agree that the bar manager witness saw MM and Lauren at point #10, but I'm not aware that anyone has quoted her as saying that she saw them enter the alley. Gatto reported that the bar manager witness saw MM and Lauren "at the corner of 10th St. and College Ave. in downtown Bloomington. At one point the man slung Lauren over his shoulder." I don't believe she saw them go anywhere.

http://tonygatto.com/2011/06/16/new...n-spierer-mystery-encounter-with-unknown-man/

Shawn Cohen, in his very useful Youtube timeline, says that ZC lived in "an apartment building at 10th & College". This suggests to me that he may not be referring to T&C (what you've labeled College Apts.), but that he might be referring to T&CV (what you've labeled Village Apartments). If fact, for reasons discussed earlier in the thread, I believe that ZC did in fact live at T&CV, not T&C.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sQVq0JNFFI

Though the map needn't specify this, I'd like to also point out that the camera in the north-east corner of T&C doesn't point at the sidewalk, but rather points along the storefronts along the façade. Walking past the façade, I think it's clear that, had Lauren walked past that camera, on her way to point #10, for example, she would not have been recorded.
 
Mahouston69 said:
You mean JR....
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doubtingthomas said:
Thanks for a very detailed map. Just a small correction. It was JR who says he watched her from the balcony not MB. I have often wondered if the bar manager saw them at point #14-#15 instead of at #10 on your map and then went down that alley. Thanks again for your work.
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The news reports I have say that it was Mike Beth who watched Lauren walking away towards the corner of College Ave.

QUOTE: "Mike Beth, Rossman’s roommate, reportedly saw Spierer at about 4:30 a.m. walking home on the corner of 11th Street and College Avenue. He was the last person to see her."



Here's the link: http://www.idsnews.com/article/2014/06/spierer-case-still-a-mystery-after-3-years?id=98377
 
Just another example of bad reporting in this case. I have to assume the IDS got it wrong since the majority of reports say it was JR who last saw her. And that article is dated June 2014 and updated Oct 2014 even.
 
akh said:
Just another example of bad reporting in this case. I have to assume the IDS got it wrong since the majority of reports say it was JR who last saw her. And that article is dated June 2014 and updated Oct 2014 even.
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EDIT: I will have to do some re-reading on this detail. Can anyone provide a credible source, please?
 
Chuz Life said:
EDIT: I will have to do some re-reading on this detail. Can anyone provide a credible source, please?
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Jay Rosenbaum, another friend of Spierer's who is the last known person to have seen her, says Lauren then came to his apartment, only a couple doors down from Beth's and Rossman's. Rosenbaum says he attempted to get Spierer to stay, but she refused, and he last saw her at the corner of 11th and College Street around 4:30 a.m.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/lookout-missing-indiana-student/story?id=13795906
 
Mahouston69 said:
Jay Rosenbaum, another friend of Spierer's who is the last known person to have seen her, says Lauren then came to his apartment, only a couple doors down from Beth's and Rossman's. Rosenbaum says he attempted to get Spierer to stay, but she refused, and he last saw her at the corner of 11th and College Street around 4:30 a.m.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/lookout-missing-indiana-student/story?id=13795906
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Thank you (everyone) I think you are all correct and the article I quoted has it wrong. Thanks also for the other inputs and comments on the map as well. Hopefully, I can make some improvements soon.
 
In almost all of your posts, you like to bring up that Lauren was "drunk". This really isn't up for debate, and really isn't a factor in causing anyone to do anything to her except it made her vulnerable.
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If it's not "up for debate" whether or not she was intoxicated, why put it in quotation marks? This seems to be more of a loaded issue for you than it is for me. I only bring it up in referring to the facts of the case, or in reference to the idea (expressed by some) that, if in fact Lauren was intoxicated, everyone she crossed paths with on the night of her disappearance is in some way morally liable for not personally walking her home, fending off any advances from drunken frat boys or other dishonorable types along the way, and making sure she got safely tucked into bed. The only guilty parties here are those who assaulted, killed, and/or absconded with Lauren, assuming one or the other of those scenarios did indeed take place.

I have absolutely no opinion as to MB's character, so I'm not sure where the "studious little angel" snark comes from.
 
Has the targeted hate crime angle ever been investigated? I know Klan activity has declined in southern IN for two decades, but I do not have time to read through the 32 threads. We like to think and hope Jews are not targets, but it does seem that area of student housing was ethnically unique from the rest of Bloomington.
 
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