OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

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Montjoy said:
None of what you wrote does anything to support your contention above that his father holds some responsibility for his actions. Discussing his statements on gun control is nothing more than deflection from that.
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I did not say the father holds responsibility for the son's actions. I said the father has the responsibility to know what is going on in his son's life and help him if he is struggling. And apparently that was not happening. The father had no idea there were guns in the small apartment. Even though his ex posted about it and his son had social media pix with weapons. His son had mental health issues. Who else, besides his TWO PARENTS are responsible for helping him ?
 
katydid23 said:
That doesn't seem like deflection to you? His grown son shoots 20 people and he says 'the guns are the killers?'
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I agree. The statement is ridiculous.

There are other high profile crimes being discussed right now, such as the two heroin addicts accused of killing Baby Bella.

Does anyone say "The drugs are the real killers, we can't blame the accused"?

In addition while gun sales have been skyrocketing for the last decade the rate of gun related violent crime has DECREASED.

Pew researchers observed that the huge amount of attention devoted to gun violence incidents in the media has caused most Americans to be unaware that gun crime is “strikingly down” from 20 years ago.

In fact, gun-related homicides in the late 2000s were “equal to those not seen since the early 1960s.” Yet their survey found that 56 percent believed gun-related crime is higher, 26 percent believed it stayed about the same, and 6 percent didn’t know. Only 12 percent of those polled thought it was lower.

The Pew survey found that while women and elderly were actually less likely to become crime victims, they were more likely to believe gun crime had increased in recent years.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybe...alities-as-gun-sales-soar-gun-crimes-plummet/
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Also when comparing mass shootings in the US to other countries, people forget the US has a MUCH larger population. In fact our rate of mass shooting deaths is LOWER than many other "oh so safe" European countries:

Annual-Death-Rate-from-Mass-Public-Shootings-Europe-US.png


http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
 
FBI warns of another threat posted on 4Chan:

The posting, on the anonymous message board 4chan, warned that "a fellow robot will take up arms against a university near Philadelphia. His cries will be heard, his victims will cower in fear, and the strength of the Union will decay a little more."

The posting went onto say that the attack would take place at 2 p.m. ET Monday and warned "If you are in that area, you are encouraged to stay home and watch the news as the chaos unfolds."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/0...er-social-media-threat-violence/?intcmp=hpbt2
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If the post was a joke I would expect the poster will end up in jail.
 
Sonya610 said:
I agree. The statement is ridiculous.

There are other high profile crimes being discussed right now, such as the two heroin addicts accused of killing Baby Bella.

Does anyone say "The drugs are the real killers, we can't blame the accused"?

In addition while gun sales have been skyrocketing for the last decade the rate of gun related violent crime has DECREASED.



Also when comparing mass shootings in the US to other countries, people forget the US has a MUCH larger population. In fact our rate of mass shooting deaths is LOWER than many other "oh so safe" European countries:

Annual-Death-Rate-from-Mass-Public-Shootings-Europe-US.png


http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
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Re the drugs. I had no idea as I am sure most people know heroin is a killer so that is simply understood. No need to state the obvious
 
human said:
With all of this technology and big brother watching, can't these posters be tracked down?
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Human its stunning that you bought this up. I watched documentary on Snowden last night. It was actually like a thriller - its was unreal real James Bondy.

Another doucmentary started You Tube and in that they had this guy on. He was breathtaking- articulate, a wicked sense of humor, authentic and a fast talker (which I like).

Great presenter............

I was going to post this anyhow--trust me and if any of you chose to check link below --your question aafter last night , is a definate - if they wanted to they could.

It was staggering, creepy, scary,and breathtaking what is really going on in terms of survelance, utterly chilling. A lot of the terminolgy is high level computer genius - it was stunning just stunning even with that being the ccase.

Tends to be a bright group here, so I think some of you wil find it astonishing

If any of you check it out - you, too would be to confidently say heck yeh they could completly track these people out.

+In aanother post here, about the threat of Philli today I thought my god this is terrorism pure and simple. Now people are going to be threats, and interupting any facet of our lives that they chose.

Without leaving there computer chair, or doing anything. The implications are quite chilling actually

Here is the guy I was talking about - really fascinating stuff while being nausating at the very time

What is a word bigger than big brother...............


JACOB APPELBAUM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy3-QZLTpbQ

if time is an issue I found a portion of his stuff that is great example of the "issue of surveliance"

“If anybody sees you on the subway, link your debit card to your metro card, right? And how do we feel? This is the concept […] called linkability. Take one piece of data and link it to another piece of data. So for example if you have your metro card and you have your debit card, you have those things and you can draw a line between them. So that’s like, not a scary thing, except your bank card is tied to everything else you do during the day.

So now they know, where you’re going, where you make purchases. So when they decide to target you they can recreate your exact steps, with your metro card and the debit card alone. Like literally where you go, where you buy. And potentially linking that data with other people on similar travel plans they can figurte who you talked to and who you met with.

When you then take cell phone data, which logs the location and you link up, purchasing data, metro card data and debit card. You start to get what you can call metadata in aggregate over the person’s life.

And metadata in aggregate is content. It tells a story about you. Which is made up facts, but it’s not necessarily true. So for example, just before you where on the corner and all these data point to it, it doesn’t mean you committed the crime. “

http://adrianomescia.com/blog/?p=441
 
Mrs G Norris said:
The security guard would be the first to die as he drove across the courtyard at warp golf cart speed.
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They are actually faster than a lot of people think and a lot of them have a way to alter the speed to make them go faster than what you typically see like on a golf course. The golf courses set them slower on purpose so that golfers don't drive them too fast on the golf course. 25 MPH is achieved by some models.

But there are many other options too like gas powered Utility Carts or even ATVs. Snow Chains and Snow Tires can help in snow parts of country in winter time.

Just trying to give the security guard some options to get around campus quickly. Automobiles would most likely work to get to most places on campus as well and the security guard would have a vehicle as well and could use that instead if he wants.

We just went to the state fair last week and I saw LE and Security Guards patrolling the state fair on golf carts all over the fair. It seems LE preferred gold carts to get around the fair because vehicles could not be used to get to most places. On a college campus I think automobiles could get to most buildings since teachers typically drive to their building so automobiles are always an option.
 
human said:
A different chart that shows more detail.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-obama-correct-mass-killings-dont-happen-oth/
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Thank you. It also agrees with the overall data that I posted.

The risk of dying in a mass shooting is incredibly small.

Mass Shooting Death -- .15 per 100,000 population
Forcible Rape -- 27 per 100,000
Robbery -- 112 per 100,000
Aggravated Assault -- 242 per 100,000
General Violent Crime -- 386 per 100,000

Source: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls
 
Hatfield said:
Just trying to give the security guard some options to get around campus quickly. Automobiles would most likely work to get to most places on campus as well and the security guard would have a vehicle as well and could use that instead if he wants.
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It would take a whole lot more than a golf cart!

You can't send a security guard armed with a pistol into a large building to hunt down some guy with a rifle! That would be a suicide mission! Pistols can't fire at long enough range. The golf cart is the least of it, the guard would need a rifle or a shotgun plus a lot of tactical training on how to clear rooms. He should also have backup.

Now before anyone says "See that shows why no one, not even teachers should be allowed to have weapons in a school!" hunting down a rifle wielding madman is a WHOLE lot different than hiding and lying in wait for one.

If there was an active shooter and a teacher with a handgun gathered up students and hunkered down in a room/closet they WOULD have a chance even if it was a pistol against a rifle (especially if the shooter isn't wearing a lot of body armor).

If they hide/lie in wait they have the advantage of waiting until they hear the shooter approaching the door and then firing immediately at close range, hopefully before the shooter even spots them.
 
Sonya610 said:
It would take a whole lot more than a golf cart!

You can't send a security guard armed with a pistol into a large building to hunt down some guy with a rifle! That would be a suicide mission! Pistols can't fire at long enough range. The golf cart is the least of it, the guard would need a rifle or a shotgun plus a lot of tactical training on how to clear rooms. He should also have backup.

Now before you say "See that shows why no one, not even teachers should be allowed to have weapons in a school!" hunting down a rifle wielding madman is a WHOLE lot different than hiding and lying in wait for one.

If there was an active shooter and a teacher with a handgun gathered up students and hunkered down in a room/closet they WOULD have a chance even if it was a pistol against a rifle (especially if the shooter isn't wearing a lot of body armor).

If they hide/lie in wait they have the advantage of waiting until they hear the shooter approaching the door and then firing immediately at close range, hopefully before the shooter even spots them.
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If the teacher is huddling in a room with students, the door is locked.

In this latest situation, wasn't the teacher shot in the head first?
 
Sonya610 said:
Thank you. It also agrees with the overall data that I posted.

The risk of dying in a mass shooting is incredibly small.

Mass Shooting Death -- .15 per 100,000 population
Forcible Rape -- 27 per 100,000
Robbery -- 112 per 100,000
Aggravated Assault -- 242 per 100,000
General Violent Crime -- 386 per 100,000

Source: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...and_rate_per_100000_inhabitants_1993-2012.xls
Click to expand...

So is dying from foreign terrorism but we spend billions on it. A nation at seige. Crazy. Whipped into fear and hatred
 
human said:
If the teacher is huddling in a room with students, the door is locked.

In this latest situation, wasn't the teacher shot in the head first?
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At Sandy Hook they were huddled in rooms and all shot to death. I believe Columbine was the same.

FYI for any self-defense minded people....this combat veteran does a great job explaining why you want to "lie in wait" and NOT run around hunting down home invaders/bad guys if at all possible.

It also helps people understand why a security guard armed with a pistol should never be expected to hunt down and dispatch heavily armed shooters.

Start watching at 6:00.

[video=youtube;dd8XjbAVM-Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd8XjbAVM-Q[/video]
 
bessie said:
snipped my me- quoted to tag
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Just finished last post on this- saw your last comment on that thread and wanted to say thanks for giving us leeway- and thanks for rocking out as a mod! :golf claps:


Sent from my not so humble opinion.
 
Sonya610 said:
It would take a whole lot more than a golf cart!

You can't send a security guard armed with a pistol into a large building to hunt down some guy with a rifle! That would be a suicide mission! Pistols can't fire at long enough range. The golf cart is the least of it, the guard would need a rifle or a shotgun plus a lot of tactical training on how to clear rooms. He should also have backup.

Now before anyone says "See that shows why no one, not even teachers should be allowed to have weapons in a school!" hunting down a rifle wielding madman is a WHOLE lot different than hiding and lying in wait for one.

If there was an active shooter and a teacher with a handgun gathered up students and hunkered down in a room/closet they WOULD have a chance even if it was a pistol against a rifle (especially if the shooter isn't wearing a lot of body armor).

If they hide/lie in wait they have the advantage of waiting until they hear the shooter approaching the door and then firing immediately at close range, hopefully before the shooter even spots them.
Click to expand...

Right. The idea is the security guard calls LE and is there so the criminal knows someone is already there. It would save lives because then the criminal would not be able to just freely walk from building to building without a worry in the world.

Even if the security guard does nothing more than stay put and fire warning shots to let the shooter know someone is out there, I think it would help save lives. Put some fear into the criminal. Make them know someone is already "out there". Heck, 1 guard could make it sound like an army is out there.

Every situation is unique and every individual is unique. Some guards would elect to go in like Rambo and others may elect to hole up outside the building and prevent the shooter from walking out to the next building.

The idea is to at least have someone there to show the shooter that some form of resistance is already on campus and is armed and can shoot back at them.
Turn the tables on the shooter. Buy some time until LE gets there.
 
Sonya610 said:
I agree. The statement is ridiculous.

There are other high profile crimes being discussed right now, such as the two heroin addicts accused of killing Baby Bella.

Does anyone say "The drugs are the real killers, we can't blame the accused".

In addition while gun sales have been skyrocketing for the last decade the rate of gun related violent crime has DECREASED.



Also when comparing mass shootings in the US to other countries, people forget the US has a MUCH larger population. In fact our rate of mass shooting deaths is LOWER than many other "oh so safe" European countries:

Annual-Death-Rate-from-Mass-Public-Shootings-Europe-US.png


http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/co...m-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
Click to expand...


How can it be the annual death rate when Norway, for example, has had one mass shooting in that time?

All of the countries had 1 or 2 mass shootings, except for France with 3. The US had app. 28 is what I deduce from this data. Norway, for instance, at the top of the list had 1 shooting and a population of 5.2 million. All the countries above the U.S. have small populations between 2.06 and 11.2 million. All the countries below the U.S. have larger populations between 8.02 and 142 million (5 are above 64 million). The smallest fluctuation in the countries with a small population will throw the numbers out, hence why they're at the top of the list. If you add up all the non US countries, it's a different picture. The U.S. has a higher fatality rate per 1 million than all the other European countries combined. In other words, these are meaningless comparisons and show how statistics can be abused.
 
KaaBoom said:
Oregon shooter's father: Gun laws have to change
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Says a man who admittedly has never held a gun in his life, knows nothing about them, and has failed to be a parent to his son. And who lives in <modsnip> England, where people aren't allowed to defend themselves and they're now bleating about "knife crime." Because gun control merely results in evil people and violent criminals using different tools.
 
I don't know if the New York Daily News is allowed, but there is an article about the mother, and a picture. Really no doubt about his access to guns....
 
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