scotland yard investigation

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Cherry said:
I don't believe there ever was an abduction; I believe this is a case of infanticide. Nothing yet has happened to change that opinion. I'd like to be wrong. I don't think I am. I'm glad there is a double investigation occuring in this case. It's a good idea. I dk what the result will be though.

Does anyone else remember the reports of GM being seen along the rocky area of the beach they so frequented with a suit case? Does anyone here remember that? You also I am sure are aware of the countless photo ops they also did *in heals I might add* at that same sight? The photo opps were the worst I'd ever seen actually. It's easy to change things and facts as so much time goes by. I'm keeping my original files on this case. Including the 1K photos that went along with it.
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Cherry you could well be right, maybe Kate Mccann lashed out at her daugter who was a bit of a wild child and ended n tragedy...they covered it up with a staged abduction...has happened many tmes before, but if that were true it would make them fraudsters collecting money
 
Clutchbag said:
The portuguese authorities are ready and willing to reopen the case as long as new concrete evidence is brought ....bringing forward things that have lready been investigated is a waste of time
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I agree with this, however, that includes the previous persecution of the McCann's and/or the tapas nine. They have been cleared.
 
Inana said:
I agree with this, however, that includes the previous persecution of the McCann's and/or the tapas nine. They have been cleared.
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No, sorry, no police or judicial authority has cleared them at all....they can be arguidos at any second if the investigation is reopened by the portuguese....their suspect status was only lifted because the case was shelved..its a cold case
 
SapphireSteel said:
I don't remember GM with a suitcase but I do remember allegations of a sports bag going missing.

The McCanns were left alone after the first flurry, and rose around 6am to walk along the beach, unobserved. I believe they moved her body (for the first time at least) at that stage.

It seems likely her body was in PDL for the next 21 days, hidden somewhere, possibly refrigerated. Where? My guess would be either in someone's vacant holiday home, or somewhere in the resort.

The resort seems too risky. :waitasec:

There are loads of English Establishment in PDL who have houses which stand empty for most of the year. The place is basically a British enclave. It's not a leap to think one of the Tapas crew knew the address of one of these vacant homes.

Also, Gerry and Kate had independently jogged all over that town. They knew it as well as someone could in that short time so quite possibly knew what houses were likely to be empty. Sounds risky, but is it really if it's off peak? :dunno:

Regardless, they needed to take that risk. No choice. They had to hide her.

Kate was gifted the keys to the church for "solitary prayer", but did she use it to hide evidence?

While others are out ripping Portugal apart looking for her daughter, she is sat in the church praying, lighting candles, and twiddling with her rosary beads.

I respect the belief in prayer but like Benjamin Franklin said, you save more lives building lighthouses than churches - meaning, actually looking would be more benefit to finding your daughter, than getting on your knees to pray while everyone else did it.

You can pray anywhere, even while looking. Probably a few searchers were doing just that while they got sunburnt and scraped their skin off looking through rocks for a tiny girl.
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If the McCann's killed their daughter, why not wait until the morning to sound the alarm that she was gone? According to the McCann's and the Tapas seven, the timeline for Madeleine missing was anywhere between 9:10 to 10:00 pm--minutes. why not just go back to their room and wait until the morning, giving themselves hours to dispose of her small body? Instead, there were people and Portuguese LE there looking and investigating until after 4:00 am May 4. There was no time to hide her away. And where would they have put her?
 
Clutchbag said:
No, sorry, no police or judicial authority has cleared them at all....they can be arguidos at any second if the investigation is reopened by the portuguese....their suspect status was only lifted because the case was shelved..its a cold case
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"The case involving Madeleine McCann will be shelved following the decision by the two magistrates in charge that no evidence was found to implicate the arguidos.
"Hereby the condition of all three arguidos ceases - and the bail measures imposed upon the same have expired."
 
Inana said:
If the McCann's killed their daughter, why not wait until the morning to sound the alarm that she was gone? According to the McCann's and the Tapas seven, the timeline for Madeleine missing was anywhere between 9:10 to 10:00 pm--minutes. why not just go back to their room and wait until the morning, giving themselves hours to dispose of her small body? Instead, there were people and Portuguese LE there looking and investigating until after 4:00 am May 4. There was no time to hide her away. And where would they have put her?
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I agree it all seems woefully unlikely.

However, cadaver dogs tell us Madeleine died right there in that apartment, that night.

We know the McCanns have lied and lied again.

I have yet to know of an intruder who walks in an unlocked door then exits with his prize through a window, but stranger things have happened I guess.

The problem I have with this is that there was no intruder roaming PDL that night.

Gerry was seen carrying Madeleine. That's called an "eye witness" which in the olden days was enough to hang someone.

Not these days if you can afford a fancy lawyer, apparently.

:moo:
 
SapphireSteel said:
I agree it all seems woefully unlikely.

However, cadaver dogs tell us Madeleine died right there in that apartment, that night...

Gerry was seen carrying Madeleine. That's called an "eye witness" which in the olden days was enough to hang someone.

:moo:
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Do you have links for these "facts"?
 
SapphireSteel said:
All I read is the Arguido status has "expired".

Nothing at all about being "cleared" or "exonerated"...apart from the Headline that is.

:twocents:
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What I read is that "no evidence was found to implicate the arguidos"

and that


"the bail measures imposed upon the same have expired."

not that the arguido status was expired.
 
Inana said:
Do you have links for these "facts"?
Click to expand...

All of this is common knowledge and has been linked over and over again, but here it is again -

Findings, as detailed in the PJ's 57-page report summary
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort 'Ocean Club', place from where the child disappeared.

- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;

- blood dog:
* in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment (exactly as it was signalled by the cadaver odour dog);

2 – Area of the backyard, close to the apartment 5A:
- cadaver odour dog:
* in a flowerbed, the lightness of the scent detected was commented by the dog handler.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html


The sighting of Gerry carrying Madeleine, per GA's book - (snipped)

- The Smith family, from Ireland, is in Luz for holidays...approx 21h55, they are returning from "Kelly's Bar", heading north, all spread out along the street- they pass a man walking down the middle of the street, carrying a child,...the father is almost certain that the girl he saw was Madeleine....the Smiths are secretly brought back to Portugal...their testimony is credible...they described the way he walked and carried her; this image is strongly fixed in their memory...Gerry exits the plane, carrying his son against his left shoulder, the child's arms down along his sides, down the stairs and across the tarmack...the Smith family see this recording on the news and are hit hard: they know this person, this way of carrying a child and of walking. It is Gerry McCann, they believe with a high degree of certainty, that they saw on 3 May at about 22h00, carrying a 4 yr old girl who appeared to be deeply asleep...the father contacts the police to communicate this new information. He says he has not slept since 9 Sept and is very upset. It's as if he re-lived the night he saw the man carrying the child. Seeing Gerry walk and carry the child, awoke something in his head...there are no doubts. Gerry McCann looks just like the same person he saw carrying the child on May 3...Smith, upset and worried about what he saw and has concluded, needs the investigators to contact him.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id162.html

There are sticky posts with most of this information, but the site linked is very good as it has the original source documents there too, with valid links.
 
SapphireSteel said:
All of this is common knowledge and has been linked over and over again, but here it is again -

Findings, as detailed in the PJ's 57-page report summary
1 - Apartment 5A, of the resort 'Ocean Club', place from where the child disappeared.

- cadaver odour dog:
*in the couple’s bedroom, in a corner, close to the wardrobe;
*in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment;

- blood dog:
* in the living room, behind the sofa, close to the lateral window of the apartment (exactly as it was signalled by the cadaver odour dog);

2 – Area of the backyard, close to the apartment 5A:
- cadaver odour dog:
* in a flowerbed, the lightness of the scent detected was commented by the dog handler.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links to the McCannfiles website. Love the videos of the dogs at work. Real animal lover here. Springer Spaniels are gorgeous intelligent dogs.

But at the website you referenced, when we scroll down, we read this:

"These dogs, which had already been used on multiple occasions by the Scotland Yard and by the FBI with positive results, are only evidence collection means and do not serve as evidence; any residue, even if invisible to the naked eye, which is collected using this type of dogs, has to be subject to forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html#adi1

Then unfortunately the DNA samples were unable to give any conclusive evidence of who, what, when or why because the samples were so minute, not to mention the questionable type of DNA tests performed.

I'm sure everyone did their jobs, dogs to lab technicians, but the end result did not support the theory.

Sapphiresteel--you are an honorable and worthy opponent to debate. It is clear that you believe the McCanns are guilty. I staunchly believe they are innocent so it seems we are beating a dead horse, until anything new comes out. So please realize my posts are not meant to goad or annoy. I'm doing a lot of background reading on this and when I find something interesting, I mean to post it. That's all. :winkkiss:

:deadhorse:
 
For The Kids said:
I would recommend to any one that if they can they should try reading the official reports on the case by the PJS that included all the statements etc. They were released two or three years ago now in Portugese but were translated into English by some people. I really really really hope that Madeline is alive I honestly do but there was a video where the two dogs hit at various points in that apartment and the car and that cant be denied and then there is the worrying sighting that IF true means that Gerry and Jez should have seen Jane but they didn't. Then there is the worrying sighting by Martin Smith.
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IIRC, both parents were doctors, and the mother said she had handled 6 dead bodies before going on vacation.
 
Tulessa said:
IIRC, both parents were doctors, and the mother said she had handled 6 dead bodies before going on vacation.
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The mother was a part time GP who came into contact with...oh, about 2 bodies a year, at most.

Most of her patients die in hospital, few die at home.

Can you please provide a link, I remember the rumour but I don't remember where or when Kate said it. Surely it's easily checked, back in England...have Andy Redmond and his dream team done this, or are they still chasing after a van full of cleaners?

The DNA located is McCann DNA, they just couldn't tell definitively which McCann although it was consistent with Madeleine.

As the rest of the family made it out of PDL alive, it seems only logical the DNA (and associated cadaver scent) is Madeleine's.

:cow:
 
SapphireSteel said:
...

The DNA located is McCann DNA, they just couldn't tell definitively which McCann although it was consistent with Madeleine.

As the rest of the family made it out of PDL alive, it seems only logical the DNA (and associated cadaver scent) is Madeleine's.
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Your statement is absolutely untrue. I do not understand why some of you refuse to even consider the official results of the DNA tests.

UK police warned on DNA evidence before McCanns became suspects

"Forensic experts described how it was impossible to conclude whether swabbed bodily fluid taken from the vehicle's boot came from the couple's missing daughter Madeleine"...

"In my opinion ... this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion."

"The expert also noted that the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some of them were present among FSS scientists, including himself."

McCann DNA evidence 'exaggerated'

<O:p"In an e-mail dated 3 September 2007, John Lowe of the major incidents team of the Forensic Science Service (FSS) said it was impossible to conclude whether the material taken from the car came from Madeleine."</O:p

<O:p"he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". </O:p
 
Inana said:
Your statement is absolutely untrue. I do not understand why some of you refuse to even consider the official results of the DNA tests.

UK police warned on DNA evidence before McCanns became suspects

"Forensic experts described how it was impossible to conclude whether swabbed bodily fluid taken from the vehicle's boot came from the couple's missing daughter Madeleine"...

"In my opinion ... this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion."

"The expert also noted that the components of the missing girl's DNA profile were not unique to her - in fact some of them were present among FSS scientists, including himself."

McCann DNA evidence 'exaggerated'

<O:p"In an e-mail dated 3 September 2007, John Lowe of the major incidents team of the Forensic Science Service (FSS) said it was impossible to conclude whether the material taken from the car came from Madeleine."</O:p

<O:p"he cautioned that this result - based on the controversial "low copy number" DNA analysis technique which uses very small samples - was "too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion". </O:p
Click to expand...

Thanks for that article, but you forgot the most important part -

In it the scientist reported that a sample from the boot of the McCanns' Renault Scenic hire car, which they rented 24 days after Madeleine went missing, contained 15 out of 19 of the young girl's DNA components.

But he cautioned the result saying "In my opinion ... this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation or inclusion."

Lowe wrote: "Let's look at the question that is being asked: 'Is there DNA from Madeleine on the swab?'

"It would be very simple to say 'yes' simply because of the number of components within the result that are also in her reference sample.

"What we need to consider, as scientists, is whether the match is genuine - because Madeleine has deposited DNA as a result of being in the car or whether Madeleine merely appears to match the result by chance."

What's important about this article is that, despite Clarence spinning away, DNA that matched Madeleine was found in the Renault.

The Cadaver dog also indicated at the Renault.

So it seems someone dead, matching Madeleine, laid in that Renault.

If not Madeleine, then WHO?
 
"These dogs, which had already been used on multiple occasions by the Scotland Yard and by the FBI with positive results, are only evidence collection means and do not serve as evidence; any residue, even if invisible to the naked eye, which is collected using this type of dog, has to be subject to forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html#adi1

The dogs findings were never verified or identified by forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory, therefore the dogs findings and alerts are all rendered invalid and nugatory.
 
yep same old.

The dogs are considered valid indicators on every thread except Madeleine's.

Watch the videos of the dogs. It's enough to make your hair stand on end.

MOO IMO
 
Inana said:
"These dogs, which had already been used on multiple occasions by the Scotland Yard and by the FBI with positive results, are only evidence collection means and do not serve as evidence; any residue, even if invisible to the naked eye, which is collected using this type of dog, has to be subject to forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory."

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id136.html#adi1

The dogs findings were never verified or identified by forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory, therefore the dogs findings and alerts are all rendered invalid and nugatory.
Click to expand...

A few things

- a cadaver dog alert to the scent of remnant death cannot be verified by any means whatsoever, that is why a cadaver dogs ability is superior to science

- a blood dog is used after a cadaver dog alerts in case it finds blood which adds to intelligence, its still not PROOF on its own
- it is justifiable suspicion if a cadaver dog, especially one like is one that has been extra trained on real human decayingbodies, alerts in the last place a missing child was seen
- the very fact that it did in the last place Madeleine was seen alive and nowhere else, again, is justifiable suspicion
- the arguments that a cadaver dog such as Eddie would be alerting to clipped toenails, bad breath, semen and all the other stuff some pro mccanns assert must be the reason, fall down pretty quick, as if the mccanns were the only family out of 7 apartments that would leave such traces
..and three months later! Cadver scent lasts for ages, bad breath or semen or urine doesnt


See?


The odds are bad

Ergo, no, the cadaver dog finding is not nullified at all...it remains as intelligence

AS DOES the blood dog...dna was found where it alertex and much matched madeleines although not a full match, so you cant diss that result either
 
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