IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #71

Thanks Margarita. I haven't been around for a bit. Glad it was discussed though and when these topics come up it's always helpful for someone to bump a previous post.

margarita25 said:

I do belIeve there was a good discussion between camerabug and another member (forgot who) re: the codes being mentioned, oceanblueyes and BOP, will see if I can find the posts. There was an interesting exchange of questions re: the interpretation of these codes, and a resolution/understanding made through this discussion, iirc.

Also, oceanblueeyes, the DNA questions keep being discussed, I think our little exchange re: this is significant here (3 posts re: DNA, when I said "wow, I think you're right" after you bounced off a quote I posted), looking for that too.

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margarita25 said:

Starting to get a little worried...if they can't tie him to the crime scene...but sounds like he will be held behind bars for TW's murder/trial? Please let there be no bail, I doubt there will be, moo. But man, if they can't tie him to the area, etc, he might not be tied if the DA thinks they might not be able to secure a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt? If he is not charged, due to lack of being able to definitively include or exclude as a suspect, I will still always wonder if he is really BG. And this is extremely worrisome to me.

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Someone recently mentioned the term Grand Jury in a post. It was a good post because reminded me such things exist. It may be that information is being developed for other legal processes that still culminate in an arrest.

Often, we think of the immediate "tag, you're it" pattern where a criminal is identified and then an arrest is affected. Should DN be their actual suspect, because he is in custody in another jurisdiction there is time if the Grand Jury process is being utilized. The prosecutors have a chance to go through information, develop arguments, present the material to the Grand Jury, and then if there is sufficient justification an arrest warrant is issued. The Indiana State Police are being very thorough, and it may be they are following this pattern.

Bird of Paradise said:

That's not accurate. If it were, the felon couldn't go anywhere in the US or be near a cop etc.

I'm sorry I don't have the exact code but will post it later if someone doesn't beat me to it.

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Defense attny would say "its someone elses"
Prosecution attny would say - the gun was physically within his control.
People who supply felons with access to guns also get prosecuted, even spouses.

Shiressleuth said:

Well this guy seems to have had multiple chances but was still driving, and carrying weapons and drugs whilst also skipping out without letting Johnson County know his whereabouts for months. Double standards IMO. That's besides even considering the TW case (is there a thread?) and these murders. ( oh and the DV, not to mention the pig slaughter and hatchet menacing when his employer pees him off. RL sounds like a Saint compared to him.)
:cow:

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Yeah he sounds like a saint until he kills somebody while drinking and driving. He broke the law, plain and simple. DN on the other hand will get what’s coming to him, if he is found guilty of anything.


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I haven't seen this mentioned, apologies if it's a rerun: mention of another woman possibly involved with DN a few years ago. A radio station WIBC in Indy interviewed Shanon Brinias, news anchor with KRDO in Colorado Springs on Monday 10/2/17. There's a short summary article and nearly 10 minute audio interview at the bottom of the article. Below is not an exact transcript of the portion of the audio mentioning this possible other woman because I substituted initials in place of names.

At the 2:54 mark in the audio Ms. Brinias indicates: we're also looking into a Facebook page we managed to locate which may be that of DN that was established a few years back and it appeared one of his children was younger at the time than what we understand they are now so that would make sense, but in it it sounds like he had a relationship with another woman, not KN the woman that was found with him, and we are reaching out to that woman to try and find out if she knows anything about DN, what his background is, what may be involved here that may have investigators so intrigued in him as a possible person of interest in at least the Indiana slayings.

Source: http://www.wibc.com/blogs/hammer-and-nigel-show/latest-daniel-nations-police-still-colorado

Direct link to audio only without article: https://omny.fm/shows/hammer-and-nigel-show/shanon-brinias-krdo-latest-on-daniel-nations

Bird of Paradise said:

Hi SS

People keep mentioning the pig slaughter here.

Is there a document/link something to show he was arrested or a formal police report showing a complaint lodged against him for that offense?

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Yes there is in one of the MSM articles. Will check the media thread ( unless someone else lays their hand on it first)

r2so3cxz said:

I think the MSM headlines make this sound more definite than it actually is. We need to look at the dates of the actual interviews, and what was said versus what writers interpreted and turned into a headline.

Here is what LE actually has stated:

Feb. 23rd:
Carroll County sheriff says DNA evidence on ‘fast track’ in Delphi case



One way various articles have interpretreted this is that they have DNA and are fast-tracking it. But another way of interpreting it is that IF they find DNA, it will be fast-tracked.


Feb. 24th:
Sheriff clarifies reports of DNA evidence



... which cancels out the previous day's interpretation of Leazenby's statement they had found DNA.

Aug. 14th:
Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence



Technically, he said they have DNA, not DNA evidence. "At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA" is a Captain Obvious kind of statement. You have two human bodies, trees, leaves, and squirrel fur. There is nothing in that statement to suggest they have the killer's DNA. In fact, since they are still looking at it six months later, it doesn't look promising.

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RBBM

While I agree with you that journalists often take liberties with headlines, I also tend to find more support for a thing when multiple news sources ask questions and report the same answers. And having DNA "evidence" is reported in the articles I posted--(posted not simply for the headlines). At least one of these is dated August 2017, well after the Feb (early) dates of the first articles you mentioned. The August 16, 2017 (953.mnc.com) article expressly states in two different paragraphs that LE has found "DNA evidence that they believe belongs to the killer." I got the impression that LE were more tight-lipped in the initial days and weeks concerning what evidence they had. Which also makes sense, as they were still in the process of determining what evidence (including DNA) they had.

It seems evident (to me, at least) that they do have adequate DNA evidence of the killer if they are swabbing and ruling out multiple POIs over a period of 7 months via those DNA comparisons. So the fact that it's taking longer than some would like or hope can only mean one of two things IMO: the testing is simply taking the time it needs to *OR* DN is not the killer (which wouldn't necessarily surprise me, as I haven't seen the Delphi link, yet). But that's just my take on things; I'm sure some opinions will vary.

Scrolling and rolling until something definitive develops.

Boxer said:

Defense attny would say "its someone elses"
Prosecution attny would say - the gun was physically within his control.
People who supply felons with access to guns also get prosecuted, even spouses.

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What if he threatened her or the children if she didn't buy the rifle?
I wonder how much control he had over her or if she went along willingly.

BIC said:

Yeah he sounds like a saint until he kills somebody while drinking and driving. He broke the law, plain and simple. DN on the other hand will get what’s coming to him, if he is found guilty of anything.


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DN has already been found guilty of numerous offences including driving offences but avoided jail on many of the occasions whereas RL didn't and he has not hurt anyone that I know of either. We do not punish people for what they might do.

RIP Meagan + Johnny said:

What if he threatened her or the children if she didn't buy the rifle?
I wonder how much control he had over her or if she went along willingly.

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Agree. The domestic violence charges certainly begin to paint a picture that it is possible he had a whole lot of control over her.

That said, I was hoping for an update from LE by now and am growing skeptical of DN being BG or at least skeptical that they have enough evidence to link him. Jmo.

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oceanblueeyes said:

Does anyone know if he had to verify he was actually living under a certain bridge when he went to check in for being a SO? Or did they just take his word for it?

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How does one verify living under a bridge anyway? "Yeah that's my cardboard box second from the left with my hatchet hanging up there"
:cow:

There were other people on the bridge that day who saw BG...I wonder what their reaction is to DN’s picture.

Shiressleuth said:

DN has already been found guilty of numerous offences including driving offences but avoided jail on many of the occasions whereas RL didn't and he has not hurt anyone that I know of either. We do not punish people for what they might do.

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We in the USA punish people for breaking the law, which in turn, if caught soon enough, will save lives.


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Falcon500 said:

Of course the case can be solved. What did they do before the discovery of DNA? By your reasoning there were no convictions before 1990'ish unless there was a confession.

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I understand. I was just saying that this particular case, with no 'easily tested' crime scene, like a vehicle or a bedroom, it would be very hard to find forensics in. No place for fingerprints or blood splatter patterns.

And it is not in a place where they will find surveillance footage on a storefront. Or many witnesses driving or walking by...

So if there is no forensics evidence left behind in the crime scene, no witnesses, no video footage, then there are not a lot of ways to prove this case, other than a confession.

minazoe said:

he's being coy
he's not talking

it won't do him any good, he probably knows this , but will do nothing to help them. When he knows what he is facing he may try to mitigate the sentence by confessing to other crimes or murders..ala Gary Ridgeway.

no, he's not going to talk, that's my take..this case will have to be built step by step . no confession is going to happen now.

MOO

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BIC said:

Yeah he sounds like a saint until he kills somebody while drinking and driving. He broke the law, plain and simple. DN on the other hand will get what’s coming to him, if he is found guilty of anything.


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Am I missing something here? What does RL's morality or lack of have to do with catching the person who killed Abby and Libtby?

Bird of Paradise said:

Thanks Margarita. I haven't been around for a bit. Glad it was discussed though and when these topics come up it's always helpful for someone to bump a previous post.

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Re DNA - I think they may have a match so are proceeding with additional evidence gathering for the case. DNA may not be enough evidence on it's own ( so he's not been ruled out by the DNA.) JMO

ImnoSherlock said:

Which was owned by KN.

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A felon is not allowed to be in a car or a house that has a firearm inside.

A wife cannot have a firearm if she is living with a felon.

Shiressleuth said:

Re DNA - I think they may have a match so are proceeding with additional evidence gathering for the case. DNA may not be enough evidence on it's own ( so he's not been ruled out by the DNA.) JMO

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IMO if they had a dna match, he would have been charged already. There’s no way his dna would be on those girls unless he committed the murders.


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BIC said:

Yeah he sounds like a saint until he kills somebody while drinking and driving. He broke the law, plain and simple. DN on the other hand will get what’s coming to him, if he is found guilty of anything.


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JMO...

Respectfully bouncing off off your post re RL and taking into account other things posted about him today...

I don't recall it was ever revealed he was drinking the day he drove to the recycling center and Lafayette. He could have been stone cold sober. We don't know.

I also don't recall it was ever revealed he drove himself home the night he had beer at the pizza place, which, IIRC, was after the girls were found on his property. He may have been driven there and back home by a friend. We don't know.

We also don't know if he spent his probation intoxicated on his property and driving drunk with license suspended or if he sobered up, drove (without being under the influence) when he needed to get somewhere and didn't have a ride and just happened to need a drink with a buddy after this all hit MSM.

If any any of the above was in MSM and I missed it I won't be offended if someone corrects me.

I honestly never ever understood raking this man over the coals for the girls' murders. Yes, he had/has a drinking problem, and I sincerely hope he's getting treatment/counseling for it while he's serving his sentence, which he deserves for violating his probation. But he looks nothing like the photos of BG and even less like the sketch.

Not to mention he's been officially cleared.

DN, on the other hand, resembles the sketch with eyes, nose, mouth, facial hair. He has a history of SO. He has a history of flying into a rage. He has a history of violence against women. He likes being in the woods/nature. It's possible, living in western Indiana, that he heard or knew about the Monon trails in Delphi and thought it would be a good place to clear his head. He was in close enough proximity to Delphi to have been there on the 13th and report for his check in on the 14th. We don't know if he had access to a vehicle. All we have is his word he was living under a bridge. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. I don't know how good his word is or isn't. I'm still not sure he's BG (I'm down to about 65% he is), but he hits much closer to the mark than RL ever will.

Maybe today day will be the day...

JMO.