Rav4

The problem with any of the initial investigation has now pretty much been lost and it was IMO a botched investigation all the way around.
Not sure why the Rav4 stuff is being discussed when that won't be anything to exonerate SA with? That ship sailed long ago at the Trial. Whatever KZ has in her post conviction brief/relief is what she will be hoping to get SA's initial conviction overturned and she has laid that out in some 220 pages, so anything to do with TH's vehicle has been addressed by her and she is SA's legal counsel and will see this through as far as she can go with it. All JMO.
 
In Ms. Zellner's post conviction brief it states that the blood spatter expert Mr. James opines that the blood spatter on the inside of the rear cargo door was a result of Ms. Halbach being struck with an object consistent with a hammer or mallet while she was lying on her back on the ground behind the vehicle after the rear cargo door was opened.
 
Karinna,

I am discussing the Rav4 because I am new to this case, and I started at the beginning. Otherwise, Zellner's Relief contents mean absolutely nothing to me if I am not familiar with this case. Other Sleuthers have been very patient and nice to respond to my questions as I muddle through the case from the beginning.

For me, nothing Zellner concluded about the Rav4 procludes the evidence it contains from being discussed. If Avery did not kill Teresa, then somebody did, so the evidence is still very much in play for people who are brainstorming other suspects.

That is why the Rav4 is being discussed.
 
Karinna,

I am discussing the Rav4 because I am new to this case, and I started at the beginning. Otherwise, Zellner's Relief contents mean absolutely nothing to me if I am not familiar with this case. Other Sleuthers have been very patient and nice to respond to my questions as I muddle through the case from the beginning.

For me, nothing Zellner concluded about the Rav4 procludes the evidence it contains from being discussed. If Avery did not kill Teresa, then somebody did, so the evidence is still very much in play for people who are brainstorming other suspects.

That is why the Rav4 is being discussed.

No problem. Just wasn't sure where the Rav4 stuff was going because there was only some evidence taken from it. If you are new to the case i guess there is much to read on it, and i think in its totality there is a lot of other stuff that points to another person/s as being the killer.
From memory SA stated he thought ST & BoD could of done it because of jealousy, (money that SA was going to receive from the civil lawsuit), and because of the ASY business.
Ms. Zellner has put forth about RH and his incriminating scratch wounds on his hand/s and how he inserted himself into the case and other things as well to do with TH's phone and deleted voicemail messages etc.
So there are at least 3 other potential suspects IMO.
 
Although in going back over the post conviction brief i noted that Ms. Zellner does mention that RH out of any other probable alternate suspects states RH is the only alternate suspect that qualifies Denny. And reading over all that about him he certainly does sound like a very suspicious character. He also lied about the damage to the Rav4, so there is that too.
 
No problem. Just wasn't sure where the Rav4 stuff was going because there was only some evidence taken from it. If you are new to the case i guess there is much to read on it, and i think in its totality there is a lot of other stuff that points to another person/s as being the killer.
From memory SA stated he thought ST & BoD could of done it because of jealousy, (money that SA was going to receive from the civil lawsuit), and because of the ASY business.
Ms. Zellner has put forth about RH and his incriminating scratch wounds on his hand/s and how he inserted himself into the case and other things as well to do with TH's phone and deleted voicemail messages etc.
So there are at least 3 other potential suspects IMO.

I agree with all this. The more I read, the more I got a problem with Bobby and RH, personally. I also have a problem with the Zipperer's. Like what time did Jason get home fro school?

My over all problem is that I refuse to believe Steven Avery dialed up for a victim delivery and then didn't bother hiding killing her.
 
We had been talking in this thread and in another about why TH went to SA's door and not Barb's. I had written in a thread that Bobby had said TH's car had been parked in front of the van.

Steven drew it like that in a diagram, and that corroborates what Bobby said.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...D-Interview-of-Steven-Avery-With-Drawings.pdf

Page 6.

The drawing also depicts 7 burn barrels total on the property.
 
Although in going back over the post conviction brief i noted that Ms. Zellner does mention that RH out of any other probable alternate suspects states RH is the only alternate suspect that qualifies Denny. And reading over all that about him he certainly does sound like a very suspicious character. He also lied about the damage to the Rav4, so there is that too.
I've often wondered if the " scratches " on his hands/arms could have been burns? Another aha moment where an expert would have been nice[emoji6]

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
Did anyone read anything about the Rav4 possibly having a rear cargo mat? It kind of looks like something was cove I wonder if they can...or could have tested the remains of the rubber in the fire and figured out what kind of rubber or plastic was burned?
 
Did anyone read anything about the Rav4 possibly having a rear cargo mat? It kind of looks like something was cove I wonder if they can...or could have tested the remains of the rubber in the fire and figured out what kind of rubber or plastic was burned?

Welcome to websleuths!

There has been speculation about a cargo mat, RAV4's come with them, but TH bought her's used, and we have no confirmation one way or the other if her's had one or not.

IMO there probably was one, and that's why the seats were moved up and why the blood stain was not bigger in the back of the RAV4.
 
Hey WS, first post. I have some thoughts on TH's RAV4

From pics in this thread of the rear driver side tire, and the mud splashed behind driver front tire, it appears to me the RAV4 was driven (forward) through a muddy area. The driver rear tire treads are filled with mud, looking like the tire was spun in a muddy or grassy area. This makes me think it wasn't just driven down the easiest route, east from SA's trailer past the workshop(s), then south to location. It also appears from current Google map image, the yard is fenced off from SA's trailer.

Another thought is that, psychologically speaking, the area the vehicle was found was as far away from SA's trailer as possible while still being in the yard, if SA did kill her.

On the other hand, the vehicle was in a convenient location if it was driven in from the south thru quarry, possibly where mud got on vehicle. It appears that a vehicle could be driven in from Jambo Creek Rd easily and without detection.

I'd love to see a satellite image specialist look into possible images if any are available of the yard October 31st to November 4th 2005. Has this idea been tried out?

Lastly, AC's call in to dispatch to run license plate SWH582, he says "Ninety-nine Toyota?" Then Lynn confirms "Yup". But I saw in this thread it was a 1998 RAV4, even listed as such on a document? Wow does AC appear to be going through emotional turmoil when he is on the stand during this questioning by defense.
 
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Hi entrustEd! Welcome to websleuths :)

I know there has been interest in satellite photo's for that time period, but I don't think anyone has been able to get a hold of any, and if any one has, it would probably be the lawyers in this case ;-)

The RAV4 was a 1999. http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Trial-Exhibit-4-RAV4-DOT-Record.pdf I am guessing if it was listed as a 98, it was a "typo" or "mistake"

The thought that SA was smart enough to clean up all of the blood and TH's DNA in his trailer and garage, yet parks the RAV4 with his blood in it in the salvage yard and takes off to the lake for the weekend, oh and leaves the remains in his backyard. It's not very logical to me, but JMO

The clip of Colborn from the MaM series... I will save everyone the trouble and let you know that it was edited, and is actually out of order a bit, or actually IIRC, there is a question and objection omitted. Also, the full clip of the call to Lynn isn't shown but it is in the transcript that we have available. His testimony can be found here: http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Trial-Transcript-Day-7-2007Feb20.pdf#page=64 IMO it doesn't change the phone call to Lynn, and it doesn't change his answers.

It seems like you are somewhat familiar with the case, but just in case... all the documents can be found at www.stevenaverycase.org
 
Thanks Missy. I did get to listen to the full clip of AC's call to dispatch. It appears the middle was clipped out, when Lynn was talking.

No other explanation comes to my mind, other than AC looking at TH's RAV4, as to what would cause AC to call and verify her license plate number. Can anyone formulate any other explanation?
 
Thanks Missy. I did get to listen to the full clip of AC's call to dispatch. It appears the middle was clipped out, when Lynn was talking.

No other explanation comes to my mind, other than AC looking at TH's RAV4, as to what would cause AC to call and verify her license plate number. Can anyone formulate any other explanation?

What about AC's explanation at trial?
 
What about AC's explanation at trial?

I considered it, and it sounded made up, on the spot, because he couldn't say definitely how he got to point of calling in plate SWH582. It also doesn't sound logical. I feel the act of calling in a plate is an act that is only the effect of some significant cause. There should have been a report of missing person, with basic data about TH and her vehicle correct? Plate number, Year make and model are BASIC info.

So what would cause AC to confirm something he seemingly should have known or had listed in a report?

It would be totally different to me if AC called in: 'Hey, heard TH is missing, can you tell me year, make and plate number?'
 
I considered it, and it sounded made up, on the spot, because he couldn't say definitely how he got to point of calling in plate SWH582.

Because he was recalling something from one and a half years ago.

It also doesn't sound logical. I feel the act of calling in a plate is an act that is only the effect of some significant cause. There should have been a report of missing person, with basic data about TH and her vehicle correct? Plate number, Year make and model are BASIC info.

Yep, and he was already given that information. He just called back to confirm it. He of all people should know that if he was doing anything fishy he shouldn't be called to dispatch and get it recorded.

So you think instead that Colborn, after receiving a phone call on the 3rd that TH was missing, he went on the road to Avery's and while driving on the road suddenly bumped into the car?
 
Because he was recalling something from one and a half years ago.



Yep, and he was already given that information. He just called back to confirm it. He of all people should know that if he was doing anything fishy he shouldn't be called to dispatch and get it recorded.

So you think instead that Colborn, after receiving a phone call on the 3rd that TH was missing, he went on the road to Avery's and while driving on the road suddenly bumped into the car?

Actually just watched MaM episode 2-4, in which a missing person flyer for TH is shown, and I didn't see any vehicle info on it. But the TV news ran the story showing a similar RAV4 with the plate # SWH582 on the screen-the news did, that's a possible reason AC had to call and verify with dispatch. He could have been so excited on his discovery that he didn't think of the call being recorded or being listened to.

I have a hunch she made it back to town, and it is possible her phone battery died on the way back.
 

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Actually just watched MaM episode 2-4, in which a missing person flyer for TH is shown, and I didn't see any vehicle info on it. But the TV news ran the story showing a similar RAV4 with the plate # SWH582 on the screen-the news did, that's a possible reason AC had to call and verify with dispatch. He could have been so excited on his discovery that he didn't think of the call being recorded or being listened to.

I have a hunch she made it back to town, and it is possible her phone battery died on the way back.

But receiving information about Halbach from CASO, where she was reported missing, and calling dispatch to check if he still got that information right, is out of the ordinary?

Why would AC be excited about the discovery if he wasn't even sure it was the RAV4? Why would he be excited about it even if he knew it was the RAV4?
 
But receiving information about Halbach from CASO, where she was reported missing, and calling dispatch to check if he still got that information right, is out of the ordinary?

Why would AC be excited about the discovery if he wasn't even sure it was the RAV4? Why would he be excited about it even if he knew it was the RAV4?

It does seem out of ordinary, yes. If you get BASIC info from a neighboring sheriff's office lead investigator, why would you need to verify, it's been all over the news as well, why would AC doubt plate #and model?

He or others in sheriff's office very likely found out between Oct 31- Nov 3rd that her last known stop was at SA's place. If they we already looking for an opportunity to cut SA down, that would have fell right in their lap. Then all they needed to do was find TH if dead, and see what, if anything could be done. If AC found her car, with her body in the back, it's suddenly a very good opportunity.
It would be good to see AC's phone records, did he call Lenk or someone else right after the call to dispatch? Where did his mobile phone ping off?
 

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