France - Air France Plane from Rio to Paris Goes Missing Over Atlantic, 1 June 2009

I keep checking for updates and there is very little at this point. I find this odd considering the time that has passed. Nothing is out there. At this point where the plane, it has been assumed, went down near an island not far from the coast, wouldn't they have found at least some signs of the plane going down in the area???

This has to horrific for the families. Waiting and waiting for news. :(
 
Now, I'm confused. Early this morning when I was watching news, it was stated that the flight had not gotten over the Atlantic where they would have lost radar contact. It hadn't been in the air long enough. Now, I'm reading that the flight was. Mixed reports. Was the flight out of radar range?
 
I just feel terribly sad for the loved ones right now; what a horrible and unusual tragedy, when you consider how many huge planes go back and forth across the oceans.

If it was the storm, I wonder if they weren't careful enough predicting the weather and route for the day.

I don't usually worry about flying, but tragedies like this, the plane that was iced over with lack of pilot rest, and that spectacular landing into Hudson Bay can't help but give me pause ...
 
Hopes dim for 228 aboard missing French jet



updated 2 hours, 6 minutes ago
RIO DE JANEIRO - An Air France jet with 228 people on a flight to Paris vanished over the Atlantic Ocean after flying into towering thunderstorms and sending an automated message that the electrical system had failed. A vast search began Monday, but all aboard were feared killed.
Military aircraft scrambled out to the center of the Atlantic, far from the coasts of Brazil and West Africa, and France sought U.S. satellite help to find the wreckage. The first military ship wasn't expected to reach the area where the plane disappeared until Wednesday.
If there are no survivors, it would be the world's worst aviation disaster since 2001.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the cause remains unclear and that "no hypothesis" is being excluded. Some experts dismissed speculation that lightning might have brought the plane down. But violent thunderheads reaching more than 50,000 feet high can pound planes with hail and high winds, causing structural damage if pilots can't maneuver around them.
Sarkozy said he told family members of passengers on Air France Flight 447 that prospects of finding survivors are "very small."
Brazil's president, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, expressed hope that "the worst hasn't happened," and said "we have to ask God" to help find survivors.
The four-year-old Airbus A330 left Rio Sunday night with 216 passengers and 12 crew members on board, said company spokeswoman Brigitte Barrand. Most of the passengers were Brazilian and French, but 32 nations in all were represented, including two Americans.
'Thunderous zone'
The plane was cruising normally at 35,000 feet and 522 mph just before it disappeared nearly four hours into the flight. No trouble was reported as the plane left radar contact, beyond Brazil's Fernando de Noronha archipelago, at 10:48 local time.
But just north of the equator, a line of towering thunderstorms loomed. Bands of extremely turbulent weather stretched across the Atlantic toward Africa, as they often do in the area this time of year.
The plane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence," Air France said. About 14 minutes later, at 11:14 p.m. local time, an automatic message was sent reporting electrical system failure and a loss of cabin pressure. Air France said the message was the last it heard from Flight 447.
AP_AirFrance.gif
While what happened to the plane has not been determined, a Pentagon official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he'd seen no indication of terrorism or foul play.
Chief Air France spokesman Francois Brousse said a lightning strike could have damaged the plane. Henry Margusity, a senior meteorologist for AccuWeather.com, noted that the thunderstorms towered up to 50,000 feet in the area, so it was possible that the plane flew directly into the most charged part of the storm.
Other experts doubted a bolt of lightning would be enough to bring the jet down. Some pointed to turbulence as a more dangerous factor.
"Lightning issues have been considered since the beginning of aviation. They were far more prevalent when aircraft operated at low altitudes. They are less common now since it's easier to avoid thunderstorms," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of Flight Safety Foundation, Alexandria, Va.
Voss said planes are built to dissipate electricity along the aircraft's skin, and are tested for resistance to big electromagnetic shocks.

more at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31040692/
 
So if cabin pressure was lost - would that mean that everyone onboard was unconcious?
 
So if cabin pressure was lost - would that mean that everyone onboard was unconcious?

I think so, Jilly! Im so terrified of flying. I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to fall 25,000 feet while I die. But Ive always been told that if anything like this happened cabin pressure would be lost and I would'nt feel a thing..I PRAY they didn't feel anything and my heart goes out to their families!
 
I think so, Jilly! Im so terrified of flying. I'm not afraid of dying, I just don't want to fall 25,000 feet while I die. But Ive always been told that if anything like this happened cabin pressure would be lost and I would'nt feel a thing..I PRAY they didn't feel anything and my heart goes out to their families!

Thanks Dollypm. I was hoping for this answer to my question - can't imagine being 35,000 ft up in the air and being aware of spiralling down. Like you, I'm hoping they didn't know a thing. I wonder how long it would take?
 
I am sick to hear that this plane was possibly struck by lightning. On a recent flight in April, from Tampa to SD, our plane was struck by lightning and let me tell you that all of us were very frightened. It shook the plane violently and the plane dropped suddenly before coming shortly back up. About twenty minutes later, the pilot came on and said we had been struck and had to make an emergency landing. It did not feel like a normal landing and later after we got on another plane, we were told we had lost some controls. I was on the internet googling to see if it was common and it really seemed to be that it wasn't so unusual. Now I see this on the news. I hope they were able to make a landing but now that it's daylight and there's no sign, it doesn't look good. How sad for all those people. Flying scares me now more than as a kid, I guess it's just part of getting old.

Horrific experience you had there! Glad you made it!
 
At the altitude they were at (I have read both 35,000 and 39,000 feet, doesn't make that much difference) you would have less than 30 seconds of consciousness if pressurization was lost. At that altitude at least one of the crew on the flight deck is required to wear a positive pressure oxygen mask so (assuming they had it on, I'm sure they did) there would always be someone up front fully conscious. That person's first job after making sure things were otherwise working correctly is to descend to a point where people can breathe - without pressurization that would be below 15,000 feet.

Unfortunately, if there was a major electrical failure the passenger's oxygen masks may not have dropped down.

If passengers lost consciousness, maybe that's a blessing.

News this a.m. says the black box in water may only ping for a short time. The world may never know what happened, although it seems the storm played a major role in the disaster.
 
If passengers lost consciousness, maybe that's a blessing.

News this a.m. says the black box in water may only ping for a short time. The world may never know what happened, although it seems the storm played a major role in the disaster.

It's just our natural instinct to want to know all the answers. I wonder about pilot competence - my husband was telling me that pilots can usually navigate through/around a storm these days, and such a huge airbus withstand bad weather/lightning.

But I'm sure lightning is unpredectible sometimes. It's hard for me to understand how an electrical system with no backup could be knocked out so easily.
 
As said they are finding debris in the Atlantic. Some seat cushions, metal debris and what looks like oil. Link below.

It must have all happend very, very fast for the pilots to not have had time to put out a distress call. IF they ever find the black box it will be interesting to see what actually happened. I was reading this morning that when a plane flies through t-storms ice crystals can form along the plane charging it with static electricity making it more susceptible for lightening strikes.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31057560
 
Oh yeah - I wanted to ask, you might now as you seem to have some knowledge about airplanes and flying - could the pilot not have dropped to a lower altitude in order to fly under the storm?
 
Thanks ! Shows how much I know! When I actually think about it it was kinda a dumb question - if anything it would make more sense to ask if they could fly over it not under.

From what I have seen of computer reenactments on the news they make it look like he should flew right through the middle of it instead of trying to go around. If the pilots had radar telling them there were t-storms head is there any indication they did try to go around and just couldn't?

I hope this is not another case of pilots not being properly trained to handle situations. From what the black box revealed in the flight that went down in Buffalo the two pilots were not and knew they weren't prepared to handle the situation with the ice.
 
See everyone says im crazy because I am too terrified to get on an airplane, well this is why. I cant imagine free falling to my death. Im scared of heights anyways. I feel so bad for all of the families suffering right now. I read somewhere that they may have found some signs of the plane wreckage.

Yep here it is http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/02/brazil.france.plane.missing/index.html
The couple they mention in the article were from a town really close to me. It was on our local news last night.
 
I have a question too, if the plane was hit by lightning, for example in and engine or even a fuel tank, how much time would it have had to send out these automatic warning signals? Could such a thing have happened and the signals were sent out so fast like as the plane was descending? It's such an awful story, and it's a morbid fascination to know what happened and to get answers but hopefully they were all unaware of what was happening. I am terrified to fly after my last experience but I'm going to Europe next week with my little girl. If she wasn't going with me I'd be highly sedated, tipsy, something....
 
You're not crazy. If you are frightened by it don't fly, it's nothing to be ashamed of. I'm flying to New York on Thursday and will be flying back from the same airport that was used by the plane that ended up in the Hudson and I have no worries whatsoever, but I fly a lot and I am a private pilot as well. (I've got 4 legs, 3 are on an Airbus 320 and the other is on a 757).

An interesting note is that an unusually high percentage of airline pilots are afraid of heights - they can fly the planes 7 miles up but are unable to go out on the hotel balcony when they get there. I don't have a source but I've read this many times over the years...


Wow I cant imagine being a pilot and being scared of heights haha.
 
The pilots on that flight (there are 3, 2 flying and 1 relief so nobody gets tired) had LOADS of experience. Air France has very good pilots, I doubt inexperience was an issue.
I haven't flown since Sept. 11th, for fear of being a sitting duck, but when we flew to Tahiti and back for our honeymoon(over 8 hour flight) we went on Air France, and I felt fairly secure in a large jet. Air France had an excellent track record as far as crashes.
 

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