alternate theories to NC death

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justthinking2008 said:
Just a thought has anyone considered the perp may not have been able to get her sports bra off. not on, just saying. If all of her other clothes were removed the sports bra could have been too difficult, but not for BC he had the the muscle to remove, perhaps a woman or a smaller man did not. Again just thinking...
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The way it was rolled is very telling. It was rolled under as it does and bunched up in the back as it does when you are putting it on, but haven't pulled it down yet. If it were being taken off, it would be rolled over.
 
less0305 said:
The way it was rolled is very telling. It was rolled under as it does and bunched up in the back as it does when you are putting it on, but haven't pulled it down yet. If it were being taken off, it would be rolled over.
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It can be rolled that was if lifted up for access during a passionate moment as well. There is not one specific way that causes a sport bra to end up in that position.

If somebody was struggling to get the bra on and made it to the point where it was that far onto the body, simply unrolling it down does not take any extra effort at all. To imply it was left that way because it was difficult doesn't make sense. The difficult part was already done.
 
There are three ways Nancy could have been murdered:

A. Brad did it.
B. Stranger did it.
C. Someone else she knew did it.

You're sitting on A and maybe you aren't convinced; maybe you don't think it is even likely. So, you head off to B. There are some people who thought they saw her running that morning, or at least someone similar. That's promising! What else? Nothing else.

Ok, so you head off to C, maybe that's more solid. Exciting! A secret lover killed her, or maybe even a jealous lover of Brad's. Exciting! Problem: After two years, there is no evidence of this. None. Not even from Brad's lawyers. In fact, you're now going against the prosecution and the defense - since the defense cites witnesses who, if they did see her running, saw her running alone. Well, it was a good trip, but nothing to hang around for.

Back to B. You're holding here because of the running witnesses and that alone. You've got a bit of help from the mystery morning call, which goes against the prosecution timeline. Do you stay? Is it time to go back?

Well, back at A we've got: Brad having searched the dump site the day before the murder, Brad not giving the normal allowance the day before the murder, Brad cleaning certain hardwood floors early morning of the murder, Brad with a messy house and car but spotless trunk, Brad who makes 6 am trips to HT on the morning of the murder, Brad who wears different shoes in a 20 minute span the morning of the murder, Brad who lied in his deposition about many facts, Brad who was up the night of the murder apparently reading Nancy's e-mails, Brad who logged in as Nancy on her computer after the murder, Brad who was googling up lawyers and NC's most wanted when his wife's body was on a slab. Brad who was googling airline tix to Canada and Canada jobs while his wife was missing. Old 2 left feet running shoe Brad.

Do you feel maybe just a little alone with that one thing going for B and so much happening back at A?

Now it seems certain it was A, B or C. Somebody killed Nancy. She didn't dump herself. C is meritless on the facts (though not as a hypothetical). B has a fact on its side. A - well A is too modest to have me repeat its merits.

Ok, come on back to A now. :) The grass wasn't greener at B & C after all.
 
Gritguy, I was following you just fine until this sentence

You've got a bit of help from the mystery morning call, which goes against the prosecution timeline.
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Are you referring to the 6:40am call as the mystery call? And if yes, how does that go against the pros. timeline?
 
Madeleine74 said:
Gritguy, I was following you just fine until this sentence



Are you referring to the 6:40am call as the mystery call? And if yes, how does that go against the pros. timeline?
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My understanding is that the defense alleges NC was alive and at home and called BC as he got to HT, thereby going against the theory she was murdered before that. The prosecution has alleged that he could have caused that call to occur himself to support the idea she was murdered earlier.
 
There were quite a few calls that morning on BC cell phone. Some with data use, some into voicemail, usage of cell phone seen on video at HT checkout line. Starting at 6:05am and up through 6:40am and beyond. 3 calls checking VM in a 10 min span. 6:25am call with data usage. 6:34am call pinging off of cell nearest to NC body dump site. A few mysteries in there.
 
gritguy said:
My understanding is that the defense alleges NC was alive and at home and called BC as he got to HT, thereby going against the theory she was murdered before that. The prosecution has alleged that he could have caused that call to occur himself to support the idea she was murdered earlier.
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Madeleine74 said:
There were quite a few calls that morning on BC cell phone. Some with data use, some into voicemail, usage of cell phone seen on video at HT checkout line. Starting at 6:05am and up through 6:40am and beyond. 3 calls checking VM in a 10 min span. 6:25am call with data usage. 6:34am call pinging off of cell nearest to NC body dump site. A few mysteries in there.
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Good point. Man, the real estate at A is going to get very crowded!
 
SleuthinNC said:
It can be rolled that was if lifted up for access during a passionate moment as well. There is not one specific way that causes a sport bra to end up in that position.

If somebody was struggling to get the bra on and made it to the point where it was that far onto the body, simply unrolling it down does not take any extra effort at all. To imply it was left that way because it was difficult doesn't make sense. The difficult part was already done.
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It would if he were suddenly interrupted by a child. And that's all the farther he got before a child saw mommy dead on the floor.
 
Another alt theory PM'ed to me:

without posting the details (might border on TOS violation), it involves a conspiracy to falsify evidence of domestic violence in order to force (vs pursue through the normal means) a change in "living arrangements".
 
Madeleine74 said:
There were quite a few calls that morning on BC cell phone. Some with data use, some into voicemail, usage of cell phone seen on video at HT checkout line. Starting at 6:05am and up through 6:40am and beyond. 3 calls checking VM in a 10 min span. 6:25am call with data usage. 6:34am call pinging off of cell nearest to NC body dump site. A few mysteries in there.
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Let me help you with this, I have been a Network Field Engineer for a cellular company for 14 years. The location of these 2 towers so close to each other, he could have hit off of either one sitting in his living room, and the hit the one closer to HT standing on Fielding Drive. The location of the towers has nothing to do in this case due to closeness of towers of where the phone was at the time the call was made. Sorry, but it is true.
 
- in CPD interview, JP said that his ex (KP) had called NC about the alienation of affection suit she had against HM. NC had goods on HM that would help in this lawsuit (HM affair with BC)

- NC calls JP to ask about these calls and the lawsuit (JP said this in CPD interview). NC also has goods on JP (Halloween night)

- flurry of calls between NC & JP in the next month (that were lied about in CPD interview). NC meets JP at coffee house (brings the young daughter in question)

- JP and HM are now dating

- NC is doing some type of bargaining with JP and HM. She won't spill their beans (about NC and JP -- and HM and BC) for some $$$ (hence the money she was purportedly going to be receiving soon)

- JP agrees to meet NC Sat. am for a run. Of course, NC doesn't tell anyone about this "rendevous"

- On the run, HM is hiding somewhere, comes out from behind a bush and trips NC (thus the trama on her left knee) and she strangles her from behind as NC is laying face down (reinforcing MH's theory of a woman attacker)

- JP and HM have each other for alibis Fri. night and Sat.

Why oh why would HM go out looking for NC on Sat. night in the dark, since they obviously weren't good friends anymore (after the BC/HM thing)

Did ANYONE see that CPD testimony of JP? And the crazy comments about mysterious MICHAEL? Was that just me or an obvious effort to divert the police to somebody who didn't exist?
 
I will add one more alt theory PM'ed to me (forgot to do this last week):

NC was involved with someone else local (aside from possibly JP).
This person was married.
This person's wife saw/heard something incriminating.
This person's wife murdered NC.
This person's wife had reason to create an alibi, set the investigation in motion ASAP, and 'assist' with it in some capacity.
 
jrb0124 said:
I will add one more alt theory PM'ed to me (forgot to do this last week):

NC was involved with someone else local (aside from possibly JP).
This person was married.
This person's wife saw/heard something incriminating.
This person's wife murdered NC.
This person's wife had reason to create an alibi, set the investigation in motion ASAP, and 'assist' with it in some capacity.
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I think you can add some odd jealousy/stalker type behaviors here too.
 
IMHYAO, the only alternate theory, and the one that I believe to be true, is that it was a random killing with the original intent of sexual assault.

Besides the actual evidence pointing to BC's innocence, the main reason I believe that he did not do it is that it simply doesn't make logical sense.

The problem is, neither does any alternate theory of someone that knew her. They would have either had to set up a meeting with her (if so, who doesn't take their cell phone with them???) or stalked her and knew exactly what time she would run and where. Neither make sense.

No, the only plausible alternate theory, actually the only plausible explanation, is that it was a random attack.
 
Another theory I have seen floated around is a murder for hire potentially involving the van sightings and the mysterious dark vehicles parked across the street.
 
oenophile said:
IMHYAO, the only alternate theory, and the one that I believe to be true, is that it was a random killing with the original intent of sexual assault.

Besides the actual evidence pointing to BC's innocence, the main reason I believe that he did not do it is that it simply doesn't make logical sense.

The problem is, neither does any alternate theory of someone that knew her. They would have either had to set up a meeting with her (if so, who doesn't take their cell phone with them???) or stalked her and knew exactly what time she would run and where. Neither make sense.

No, the only plausible alternate theory, actually the only plausible explanation, is that it was a random attack.
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The reason I don't think it was random is because of the purposely erased and destroyed blackberry and the very strange actions of some of the friends. My gut tells me someone knew something. There has to be more to this case than the official story.
 
This is a new thought - unless mistaken (then apologies) I've not seen this issue raised.

We know BC was controlling; mean and cut off Nancy. He was all about himself - his website acutely demonstrates and reiterates his "I'm Big, Powerful, Achieving, Training Brad Cooper" ego - almost as if his audience missed him with his "I'm Back!!!!" quips. All of his races/marathons/events required immense training, long hours & exhaustive efforts to compete over many years.

Brad was for BC and no-one else, IMO. That he loved his kids is not disputed one iota. Tho I do believe he used them as weapons to press NC's wrong buttons - but that's MOO.

We know for sure BC neglected general everyday cleanliness and hygiene. Never cleaned up from the second NC shut the door behind her on vacation to Canada circa 3 weeks before her murder.

He also appeared paranoid over NC's communication, so much so that he cunningly set and changed her email-settings to ensure he would see her forwarded emails, sometimes before NC saw them; all unbeknown to NC. Devious. Disturbingly so. This is silent, cunning, unlawful "spying" in my book. Always trying to be one step ahead? Afraid he'd miss something? There was immense tension in that house. He sure bullied NC. Cut her off from finances and did nothing about her Green Card.


As soon as he saw the DV / Sep Agreement draft he must have plunged into an inner rage.... Again, paranoia to Fear of Loss? Hmmmm:

Is it *possible* ... that BC may have been on steroids? We know that inner roid-rage affects those closest. Look at what Chris Benoit (and then some) did to his entire family? Inner rage; revenge. Hate. Paranoia and a dreaded fear of loss - sparked by a sense of diminished self-value and depression. Roid-ridden slow and constant degradation of a once healthy stable and successful mind & body.

So: I wonder IF, if if if IF ... BC was, or had been on steroids and never told anyone. To me he's a cheater ... and cheaters stop at nothing. It's all their image, their story, their gain. A simmering rage may have built up chemically as well as emotionally.

Thoughts? The above out of the question?

JMOO
 
PolkSaladAnnie said:
This is a new thought - unless mistaken (then apologies) I've not seen this issue raised.

We know BC was controlling; mean and cut off Nancy. He was all about himself - his website acutely demonstrates and reiterates his "I'm Big, Powerful, Achieving, Training Brad Cooper" ego - almost as if his audience missed him with his "I'm Back!!!!" quips. All of his races/marathons/events required immense training, long hours & exhaustive efforts to compete over many years.

Brad was for BC and no-one else, IMO. That he loved his kids is not disputed one iota. Tho I do believe he used them as weapons to press NC's wrong buttons - but that's MOO.

We know for sure BC neglected general everyday cleanliness and hygiene. Never cleaned up from the second NC shut the door behind her on vacation to Canada circa 3 weeks before her murder.

He also appeared paranoid over NC's communication, so much so that he cunningly set and changed her email-settings to ensure he would see her forwarded emails, sometimes before NC saw them; all unbeknown to NC. Devious. Disturbingly so. This is silent, cunning, unlawful "spying" in my book. Always trying to be one step ahead? Afraid he'd miss something? There was immense tension in that house. He sure bullied NC. Cut her off from finances and did nothing about her Green Card.


As soon as he saw the DV / Sep Agreement draft he must have plunged into an inner rage.... Again, paranoia to Fear of Loss? Hmmmm:

Is it *possible* ... that BC may have been on steroids? We know that inner roid-rage affects those closest. Look at what Chris Benoit (and then some) did to his entire family? Inner rage; revenge. Hate. Paranoia and a dreaded fear of loss - sparked by a sense of diminished self-value and depression. Roid-ridden slow and constant degradation of a once healthy stable and successful mind & body.

So: I wonder IF, if if if IF ... BC was, or had been on steroids and never told anyone. To me he's a cheater ... and cheaters stop at nothing. It's all their image, their story, their gain. A simmering rage may have built up chemically as well as emotionally.

Thoughts? The above out of the question?

JMOO
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First, that was an insane DV/Settlement agreement to begin with. It would never have gone through. He did go to an attorney but no money to pay for it. Did he know that agreement was not worth the paper it was written on? I do not know. If he did not, then he could have been enraged. I tend to think somewhere he found out how one sided it was. As to steroids, they can make you do some pretty bad things. I believe Jeffrey McDonald was on steroids and we see how ugly things turned for him. He was also very self-centered. If I remember correctly, BC had stopped training to give more time to the kids so honestly, I am doubting the steroids were a factor.

I personally think the verbal abuse from NC (perhaps justified) in public had to make him upset. Others say "No". Clearly these two people needed seperate living arrangements. I think both had affairs so I doubt the affairs would be an issue.

I answered a previous message of yours on the other post. Welcome back.
 
cody100 said:
First, that was an insane DV/Settlement agreement to begin with. It would never have gone through. He did go to an attorney but no money to pay for it. Did he know that agreement was not worth the paper it was written on? I do not know. If he did not, then he could have been enraged. I tend to think somewhere he found out how one sided it was. As to steroids, they can make you do some pretty bad things. I believe Jeffrey McDonald was on steroids and we see how ugly things turned for him. He was also very self-centered. If I remember correctly, BC had stopped training to give more time to the kids so honestly, I am doubting the steroids were a factor.

I personally think the verbal abuse from NC (perhaps justified) in public had to make him upset. Others say "No". Clearly these two people needed seperate living arrangements. I think both had affairs so I doubt the affairs would be an issue.

I answered a previous message of yours on the other post. Welcome back.
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Cody, thanks for the welcome back :D

Yes, a tough agreement - but due to BC it never became the final agreement, sadly. And we *all* know that almost every good lawyer goes for ultra-max - to ensure their client gets at least close to halfway at the end of the day. The document was not complete; it was not finished - it was a draft. A draft meant for NC's eyes only. Further negotiation / tweaking was obviously required. BC should not have snooped on NC's privacy and allowed legal-eagles battle it out. BDDI's make the mistake of assuming the draft was the final. it wasn't. Had BC not been so paranoid and scheming, he may have had a better agreement to deal with. In a DV you're never going to get 2 happy people. I know. Went through one 20 years ago! Leaving it to lawyers lessens the emotion. (Not according to BC, tho).

Whooaaa! I'd also diss my husband if I returned home from 2 weeks and my house looked like a slimy vagrant's squatter camp, infested with bugs! Aside from the resent and venom both showed for each other - that was the pits. I'd be mortified - I'd have taken photos. Thank God NC called in pest-control. They saw the state of that house and testified as much (and to the state of the garage).

BC and NC yelled at each other whenever their blood boiled - 2 witnesses testified to that - outside the school parking lot. This wasn't only NC trashing BC. To massage their acrimonious relationship into only NC yelling is ludicrous. That makes BC seem a wimp. He was an emotional, cold, cunning and calculating bully, IMO.

Theirs was a brittle, explosive, volatile relationship on its last lap in the relationship cycle. Both screamed at each other. The only difference, I think is that not one cell in NC's body or make-up ever graduated her to believing murder to be not just an option - but a plan.

IMOO, of course - and always....

2 views, 2 minds ... maybe. Tho there was one killer.
 
PolkSaladAnnie said:
Cody, thanks for the welcome back :D

Yes, a tough agreement - but due to BC it never became the final agreement, sadly. And we *all* know that almost every good lawyer goes for ultra-max - to ensure their client gets at least close to halfway at the end of the day. The document was not complete; it was not finished - it was a draft. A draft meant for NC's eyes only. Further negotiation / tweaking was obviously required. BC should not have snooped on NC's privacy and allowed legal-eagles battle it out. BDDI's make the mistake of assuming the draft was the final. it wasn't. Had BC not been so paranoid and scheming, he may have had a better agreement to deal with. In a DV you're never going to get 2 happy people. I know. Went through one 20 years ago! Leaving it to lawyers lessens the emotion. (Not according to BC, tho).

Whooaaa! I'd also diss my husband if I returned home from 2 weeks and my house looked like a slimy vagrant's squatter camp, infested with bugs! Aside from the resent and venom both showed for each other - that was the pits. I'd be mortified - I'd have taken photos. Thank God NC called in pest-control. They saw the state of that house and testified as much (and to the state of the garage).

BC and NC yelled at each other whenever their blood boiled - 2 witnesses testified to that - outside the school parking lot. This wasn't only NC trashing BC. To massage their acrimonious relationship into only NC yelling is ludicrous. That makes BC seem a wimp. He was an emotional, cold, cunning and calculating bully, IMO.

Theirs was a brittle, explosive, volatile relationship on its last lap in the relationship cycle. Both screamed at each other. The only difference, I think is that not one cell in NC's body or make-up ever graduated her to believing murder to be not just an option - but a plan.

IMOO, of course - and always

I never said NC was the only one that yelled in this relationship. I believe you asked for alternate theories or reasons and stated use of steroids. Honestly I do not believe he was on steroids, but I have no proof of that. I merely stated that NC did yell at him and ran him down frequently with everyone and that she was particularly irate with him that Friday night. That is a fact and it is possibly a great explanation for what might have set him off that night (if he did kill NC). To the best of my knowledge, only two people know for sure who killed her and that is the killer and NC. Anything else is our opinion based on facts and reasoning. There are counter arguments to each point that was made but I want to stay around and do not want to run down the list. We can agree that it was a bad relationship in the last lap and they should not have been living together. And yes, I do agree NC never expressed fear of BC. I don't know BC so I honestly can't evaluate his personality type other than he was apparently very shy socially.
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