MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

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..since you're "here" pferrin------the 4:04 time of the 911 call----did you get that from radio reference ( or wherever it is you get that cool info?)
 
vlpate said:
I think about the Van Dams - Westerfield case - and how they were vilified...the difference in all of these is cooperation.

Why are they talking mostly to media? Where are their sons? I think I'd want my kids around me when my baby has been kidnapped.

Nothing makes sense.
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I would be talking to media every chance I got to get my baby's picture out there. If LE interrogated me for 11 hours straight accusing me when I thought they should be looking for my child, I'd call a stop to it. What else can they tell LE after 11 hrs? They allowed LE to talk to their sons. Why not take advantage of the media? Most families of missing loved ones would love the chance to get their pictures in the media.
 
Have police commented on whether they investigated the dumpster fire one block over - and what might have been in the dumpster, burning?
 
Peliman said:
Yes but even if we don't know, it wouldn't surprise me if LE had a cadaver dog sniff the home. Can't swear to it, just sayin.
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And maybe they did and that is why they accused DB of killing her baby?

Some things we aren't privy too but I wish I could be a fly in the wall at LE's station.
 
Just-a-Guy said:
Holmes: So, it comes down to the curious incident of the dog barking in the night.
Watson: But the dog didn't bark in the night.
Holmes: Yes, and that was the curious incident.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, "The Hound of the Baskervilles"


ETA: That's from memory, the book is in my office... I've quoted it in briefs to courts, more than once...But the language I'm sure is off.
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I am liking you just-a-guy.
 
tlcox said:
We don't know what parents have discussed with LE. We have only what LE says and what parents say, none of whom seem to be on the same page right now and none of whom is discussing any 2:30 am phone call or even confirming if one exists.
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Judge Jeanine asked Young about the call (MSM), and he didn't deny it. If there was one, and it pointed away from the parents, trust me, they'd be talking about it. If it pointed to a stranger I think they would be cooperating and helping.
 
One thing I wonder...did they mention right away to LE that this was the first night the husband was away, or did LE find out that info themselves? Just curious, as it would seem like something you might not want to bring up, if you had something to hide...even though it would come out later, of course.
 
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
 
EllaMae said:
All of my children have slept with me at various times in their lives.....and sometimes all 3 would find their way into my bed at once. Sometimes they just wanted to be close to me and talk.
It had no suspicious connotations at all, and I wasn't trying to use my children to cover up anything. In some families it's just normal for a child to sleep with a parent from time to time.
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Musical bed household here. Weekends were the worst and I wouldn't trade it for the world. So many kids and dogs in my bed I would have to go sleep in one of my kids beds. lol. Oh and my kids always turned on the lights while they were wandering.
 
dovebar said:
The "how" of any scenario involving the mother is the problem for me.

Did she leave her two sons while she ran out to the dump?

Discover that in a big fight or in an overdose, she had killed her daughter, and somehow - no evidence how - contacted her brother to help, and no one saw his car, and the boys slept through everything, and he's flunked a polygraph too?

I mean, please help out here with what *could* have happened, realistically, in terms of body disposal of this child - if she did NOT drive off with an abductor. I am genuinely interested in people saying what they think could actually have happened. Without a magic carpet or ESP to the brother. Is there a fourth cell phone on which she called him?

Because I'm just not seeing a scenario in which the dogs wouldn't bark, the kids wouldn't wake up (and tell the cops about it), and the neighbors wouldn't be alerted to a car pulling in and out in the middle of the night.
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I think the child was carried from the home by her mother or someone helping the mother. If I was their neighbor, I sure wouldn't notice if they were coming or going during a time I'm asleep.

The mother has said she didn't hear the alarm or the dog bark. I think that is a lie of omission and there wasn't anything to hear. But she's also said Lisa was a friendly child who would go happily with anybody and I find that a ridiculous comment that isn't believable. When did a stranger ever take ahold of Lisa for her mother to form that opinion?

When my daughter was an infant, she would rock herself back to sleep in her crib, loudly banging against the crib. One night, my older brother was in town to visit and he met her for only the second time. She awakened him with the noise so he went in to see what was wrong. She awakened fully, took one look at him and let out a blood curdling scream that didn't stop until I made it into her room.

So, I'm not buying these excuses that Mom didn't hear a sound because baby wouldn't make a sound if lifted from her bed by a stranger.

JMO
 
Peliman said:
What we don't know are the conditions the dogs were trying to track. The dogs track skin cells but if the baby left the house swaddled and carried, it could prove difficult.
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Newborns are swaddled. Typically, 10 month old babies are not swaddled. DB reported putting fresh clothes on Lisa and putting her to sleep with a bottle. There was no mention of swaddling.
 
curiousc said:
And maybe they did and that is why they accused DB of killing her baby?

Some things we aren't privy too but I wish I could be a fly in the wall at LE's station.
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Good point...especially if they really did tell the mom on Tuesday "we know you killed her" as she claims. Maybe a dog got a hit on an area in the house.

Also, that could be why they searched landfill more than once, just a guess here, we don't know.
 
MyBelle said:
And talking to the boys could be why LE suspected Debbie was involved from the get-go. I still hold the opinion there was no kidnapping. The house was staged and maybe the son heard the commotion from the window screen or was awakened by lights.

There have been claims neither monitor nor dog alerted to noise but no explanation for why the son was sleeping with her. And we know it is a question asked by the Dad, which is why I'm wondering why he is so supportive of her. What was her answer? Does anybody know? I'm betting the son heard noise and maybe saw what was going on.

JMO
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Good question, why did the boy wake up, and what time ? the answer I've not heard of yet. But the 2 older children could've given conflicting stories from what the parents have claimed, which prompted LE to look closely at mom..
 
Tuffy said:
Is it just me, or does it seem like a lot of kids that disappear, disappear after parties?
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That's creepy. Never noticed that before.

Although as others pointed out, I'm wrong in this case.
 
JeannieC said:
You did. It has been told several times that all the lights were on. I had been looking for that article and posted it behind you. Not even intentionally. I saved a lot of articles!

I've been looking for one that told what kind of dogs were used but can't find specifics. Just search dogs. Doesn't help!
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The article Peliman just posted reads "tracking dogs", so that means they were doing a scent specific search for Lisa, as opposed to HRD dogs who just sniff out the scent of any deceased human, and air-scent dogs who follow the scent of any live human.
 
norest4thewicked said:
Can anyone give an example of a case where a mother either accidentally killed her child or one of the siblings killed the child and then the mother set it up to look like a kidnapping and disposed of the beloved child?

And, please don't say Casey Anthony....I won't even go there...
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IIRC that was a theory posited about the Lindbergh kidnapping. Other than that no I can't.
 
Jacie Estes said:
IIRC that was a theory posited about the Lindbergh kidnapping. Other than that no I can't.
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Well we really don't know how many children who remain missing were actually killed, accidentally or otherwise, by the parent reporting them missing...
 
Cappuccino said:
Yes, they were there in real time, and they were only let in after LE had finished searching. So the state you see the room in is the state they left it in, NOT the state they found it in.
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The crib could be in the condition of both the way they found it and the way they left it.
 
Sorry if this has already been discussed but what would be the reason for LE to be using metal detectors in the yard of the parents home ? Any thoughts...
 
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