Weekend Discussion thread 04/21-24/2012

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Wondergirl said:
You know, TLM did not likely know about the blood/sperm evidence on the rear passenger door moulding, so it this is another piece of corroborating testimony by TLM, IMO.

Just sayin'.
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That's certainly a good explanation how that spot got there
 
Ardy said:
I have been hoping the Crown would put forth such a strong case to force MR to take the stand, but I am not sure they have accomplished that in the opinion of the defense lawyers.

We shall see.

I fail to understand why some posters are so keen on disparaging the defense lawyer, as other than duelling with TLM during her cross examination, and some questions raised to TM during her testimony, I believe he has introduced new evidence into the trial during his cross examinations.

The answers to some of his questions have raised some eyebrows I am sure.

IIRC RS was asked by a reporter what he thought of the defense questions, and he replied that he had no problem with them because he wanted the full truth to come out.

Between the Crown and the defense........hopefully, we can find the truth.

I would also point out that the Crown must provide the results of all tests, regardless of the results............but also the defense cannot put in evidence that it knows is false.

In this way, the truth should come out by combining both sides, because defense counsel is acting as MR's voice in the trial.

JMO.................
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Could you remind me what evidence that is, please?
 
Kamille said:
Or he was looking for a good parking spot, out of the way of prying eyes. Scoping the area so to speak as you've pointed out. By going past the school in the morning, he could see the dynamics of how cars and children flowed into and out of the school and whether that was a good location for a kidnapping.

MOO
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Very true, great point Kamille
 
Kamille said:
You answered your own question. If no forensics of a sexual assault were present, and only TLM's prints were on the hammer then the reason for why Victoria was with them in the first place would be the only thing to question MR about.

Now if he had a plausible explanation for that then there you go. Free man.

Of course since he didn't do that, one can only assume that he has no plausible explanation for anything other than he was part of a duo who kidnapped a child for sexual purposes and then she was murdered to prevent her from identifying either of them.

MOO
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The HD video shows TLM buying the hammer. She confessed to the murder with the hammer. The Crown still charged MR with first degree murder.

Granted he would have avoided the sexual assault charge, but kidnapping and murder would mean a life sentence anyways.

JMO...........
 
...hmm moment...IMO>>>>1.Let us see how the defense explains Tori's blood mixed with his ...may I be so BLUNt to say MR's sperm ,
2.the video of him taking Tori in his car ,
3. home depot drop off,
4. driving to Mount forest and cleaning up a crime scene where the victiim"s left in ONLY a in shirt and nothing from the wait dow
5....taking a child to a home where he buys 300 pills......
6. All this lies and misconception made by women after the crime about his back seat missing....etc...

7....3 mths of time to get rid of all evidence ...oops he did not have time to get rid of the ...car tho...oops ....
8,.......anyone want to add to the list????.....time shall tell from the defense ????

*9. too bad this had to happen and they were not caught ...Amber alert not don......all IMO again..robyhood.
 
CarrieBean said:
Could you remind me what evidence that is, please?
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Often when Derstine has cross examined, he has pulled more testimony from witnesses that the Crown has not revealed.

This is a link to Derstine gaining evidence through testimony during his cross examination of TM.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1142826--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mother-s-shortcomings

There are too many links for too many cross examinations to post them all, but we know Derstine's cross examination revealed TLM's letters, journal entries, choice of death rap music, assaults on her mother, and lengthy criminal record. The comments that TLM made to her godmother regarding microwaving the dog and not regretting the murder and wanting to do it again were all revealed by Derstine's cross examination.

The information can be found by looking at Derstine's cross examination of the witnesses............JMO..........
 
SFB73 said:
Thank you, sometimes pictures help get the point I was trying to make across... 84 seconds apart, likely meant he drove right by them, why not just stop and load them up, heck, if a kidnap, sex assault and murder were the order of the day and one of the people involved happens to be the business partner in an escort service, possible drug dealer I doubt he's afraid of a traffic violation for stopping in a no parking zone, but likely more fearful of someone seeing TLM and TS get in his car if he stopped on the main street, but rather planned to go to the furthest away place to park away from all the activity of kids and parents leaving the school at dismisal time. There would have been a greater chance of being noticed. Many people wouldn't think twice if they saw an 18 year old female walking with a 8 year old girl, however people may take note of 18 year old girl and 8 year old child getting into beat to crap hand painted Honda civic driven by a 28 year old male.

The pickup in my opinion was fully planned and executed with only one flaw in the plan, the video camera. I'm willing to bet that car was on the 401 within 3 minutes, there wouldnt have been any stops in Woodstock with TS in that car as it would have been too much of a risk. Then again, perhaps they all stopped at Wendy's on the way out to the 401, after all they were just babysitting TS.... Trust me, no reasonable adult sitting on the jury would be lead to think that's the case. Let's just hope there isn't any unreasonable people on it who will buy into whatever the defense presents.
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yes, bang on with what TLM told Det. Smythe, that MTR kept driving by to make sure she did it. And voila, caught on tape...driving by before the pick up. Exactly, why not just have them hop in instead of walk, because that would attract attention when they nab her and push her in...gosh how much more of a smoking gun does someone want on kidnapping!! JMO
 
crazyladi said:
It's going to be a long drawn out boring half of the trial. It's all going to be about how great mtr is and how crazy TLM was. The music from Necro will be brought up AGAIN as well as all the damning things she said during her testimony. I am curious however to hear from witnesses on his side however it won't change my mind because he is just as guilty. I don't even really want to listen to all the bs that Derstine is going to throw out there. Mr is a coward and in the end if justice doesn't prevail karma will. Jmo
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If MR is guilty as charged, I can think of many 'C' words to describe him, some may get a modsnip and a warning, others may get me banned. 'Coward' isn't one of these words.
If guilty as charged, he took a child, in daylight. Drove around with her in the back of his car, went to pick up drugs, etc. That takes an awful lot of arrogance. Cowards generally aren't that arrogant.
If we are to believe the defences 'suggestion' to TLM when she testified, then coward would be appropriate.

JMO.
 
Ardy said:
But, if he had not committed a sexual assault, why would he be concerned to prove that one hadn't happened?

His concern would have been to kidnapping and murder.

If TLM said he participated in the crime with her................

It would be the same thing as she is saying now, minus the sexual assault.

JMO............
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from crown point of view BECAUSE death while kidnapping OR death during the crime of rape EACH are a chance at murder one. Plus then the actual did he wield the hammer. So that gives the jury 3 things to consider, convict on any one of them and it is murder 1. But if the defense can refute one or two then it lessens ALL jury members might come to unanimous decision. JMO
 
Ardy said:
Often when Derstine has cross examined, he has pulled more testimony from witnesses that the Crown has not revealed.

This is a link to Derstine gaining evidence through testimony during his cross examination of TM.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1142826--tori-stafford-murder-trial-mother-s-shortcomings

There are too many links for too many cross examinations to post them all, but we know Derstine's cross examination revealed TLM's letters, journal entries, choice of death rap music, assaults on her mother, and lengthy criminal record. The comments that TLM made to her godmother regarding microwaving the dog and not regretting the murder and wanting to do it again were all revealed by Derstine's cross examination.

The information can be found by looking at Derstine's cross examination of the witnesses............JMO..........
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There may be much info we are not privy to out there on MTR as well or not. Legally if it existed we would not be privy to mental health issues or his school records. He could have a very lengthy history of ______ and we would not be privy to that nor would the courts. JMO The only thing the crown could discuss would be legal history. That is not to say there is any but if there were we would not know.
 
MTR's lifestyle as the time of the crime makes me question this.

28 years old, living at home-somewhat nomadic, illegal activity, lying like a rug, oodles of money running through his account. Yet, he lives at home. Enabled it appears. I have to question if he ever was held accountable for his actions. Appears he has few limits set on his behavior, current charges aside. He does not seem to follow social conventions and lives on the periphery of society...parasitically taking from those around him. It makes me wonder is it that nobody tried to set limits on him; or was there something about his nature that it was impossible for someone to set limits on his behavior. JMO

Imagine what a world would be if we all lived with scanty social convention and have only scantily learned to impose self limits based on legal, societal and moral codes. Imagine the outcomes of like minded people such as that congregating together. Who would pay taxes, would anyone be sober? What kind of chaos would all that lying and scheming cause. Who would get done those things that need to get done in the community. Who's rights would be protected. How safe would that society be. Sounds a bit like Gotham doesn't it. JMO
 
BorgQueen said:
If MR is guilty as charged, I can think of many 'C' words to describe him, some may get a modsnip and a warning, others may get me banned. 'Coward' isn't one of these words.
If guilty as charged, he took a child, in daylight. Drove around with her in the back of his car, went to pick up drugs, etc. That takes an awful lot of arrogance. Cowards generally aren't that arrogant.
If we are to believe the defences 'suggestion' to TLM when she testified, then coward would be appropriate.

JMO.
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ooo "c" words; hard to find an appropriate one without getting the tos

corrupt, contaminated, criminal, crooked, caacaa head....

JMO
 
snoofer said:
ooo "c" words; hard to find an appropriate one without getting the tos

corrupt, contaminated, criminal, crooked, caacaa head....

JMO
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LOL! Caacaa head. I didn't think of that one, but now that you mention it... ;)


And those are only some of the words! ;)

(jmo)
 
snoofer said:
There may be much info we are not privy to out there on MTR as well or not. Legally if it existed we would not be privy to mental health issues or his school records. He could have a very lengthy history of ______ and we would not be privy to that nor would the courts. JMO The only thing the crown could discuss would be legal history. That is not to say there is any but if there were we would not know.
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bbm I'm curious about that. I know LE said MR did not have a criminal record so this doesn't apply to him. However there was a trial many years ago, in 94 I think, and prior record and time served was not admissible iirc. That isn't the case here, but is interesting imo.
 
His demeanour during the whole thing still makes me wonder if he has done this before. He is way to calm, goes to get drugs, timmies etc. Without even being worried that he could get caught. How can someone be so calm with an 8yr old in the back seat that doesnt belong to them??? I really dont think Tori gave much of a struggle, she was probably too scared. JMO
 
Jezbel said:
I haven't read all the posts yet so this may have been answered but I believe it was brought up on cross about the talk with her godmother, the story of the dog and the assault on another prisoner.
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And as I pointed out earlier, it was brought up without any context whatsoever. So I have to assume that it was a recorded telephone call that Derstine was privy to?

If neither the godmother, nor the recorded telephone call show up as part of the defence strategy then you can rest assured that the context of that conversation was not TLM bragging about any of those events or revelling in what she had done.

MOO
 
I also want to make it clear that NO I dont believe MTR didnt know she was kidnapped and that is why he was so calm. He knew exactly what was going on.
 
So is it because TLM was sent to a detention centre and not jail that they have no recording of MTR saying "You would do anything for a little bit of love huh?" ??????
 
Hi all,

Is there court tomorrow or is it a day dedicated to legal issues? I can't remember :/

Thanks
 
crazyladi said:
His demeanour during the whole thing still makes me wonder if he has done this before. He is way to calm, goes to get drugs, timmies etc. Without even being worried that he could get caught. How can someone be so calm with an 8yr old in the back seat that doesnt belong to them??? I really dont think Tori gave much of a struggle, she was probably too scared. JMO
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It's funny how Derstine has pretty much admitted to the Timmies stop even though TLM was unable to lead LE to that location and no one obviously came forward to indicate that they had seen either MR in their store or the car in the parking lot of any Tim Hortons. Pretty much the same situation with the car wash/variety store. And that stop was done after dark with less people around I'm sure.

So why is one taken at face value as the truth because it can be spun to make the defendent look like he didn't have a care about having Victoria in the car at that time, and the other is considered a TLM lie because it doesn't look good on the defendent?

MOO
 
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