GZ Case - Defense Perspective

AngelWings444 said:

I do not think the defense is in any hurry to have the records released, especially GZ's statements and "medical" records. JMO They can delay it and they are. The motion is just ridiculous. How hard could it be for both parties to get it done? Who benefits from it not being released, certainly not the prosecutor. MOM knows, once he receives the information, the clock starts ticking..tick tock.

JMO

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It does not appear to me either side is anxious for the records to be released:

Is secrecy justified in George Zimmerman case?

"Right when it appeared that April 12 hearing was over, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey whispered something to Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara -- and the microphones picked it up.

"What about the sealing?" Corey asked O'Mara."

.

suzihawk said:

The ball is in O'Mara's court to file that motion. Has the motion been file yet? If not, why?

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I don't know whether it has or why/why not. It sounded like you were saying that there shouldn't be a delay b/c of a little redacting. I was just responding to that.

vlpate said:

My comment was taken out of context, however, there is no way for anyone to know, besides GZ and TM, what TM was doing. Of course, TM is not able to tell his side, doesn't change the fact that we, sitting behind our respective computers, do not know what Martin was doing.

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That is correct. Trayvon is dead, he can't speak for himself. But, common sense, with all that has been released, says Trayvon was simply walking home, talking to his girlfriend within a couple of minutes of being shot dead, coming home from a 7-11 with Skittles and an ice-tea. Nothing more, nothing less.

Furthermore, he tried to get away from GZ, not the other way around.

This is JMO, from all I have read. We can agree to disagree.

suzihawk said:

We know he was talking on the phone to his girlfriend.

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I don't know that. The girlfriend's call started at 7:12, which is two minutes after the 911 call started. GZ found him suspicious sometime before 7:09.

vlpate said:

It does not appear to me either side is anxious for the records to be released:

Is secrecy justified in George Zimmerman case?

"Right when it appeared that April 12 hearing was over, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey whispered something to Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara -- and the microphones picked it up.

"What about the sealing?" Corey asked O'Mara."

.

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Of course the prosecution wants some things sealed! That was a long time ago. I'm sure they are ready to get this started. The defense is the only party that benefits from a delay.

Tick-Toc.

Document dump soon?? lease:

AngelWings444 said:

That is correct. Trayvon is dead, he can't speak for himself. But, common sense, with all that has been released, says Trayvon was simply walking home, talking to his girlfriend within a couple of minutes of being shot dead, coming home from a 7-11 with Skittles and an ice-tea. Nothing more, nothing less.

Furthermore, he tried to get away from GZ, not the other way around.

This is JMO, from all I have read. We can agree to disagree.

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If he was simply walking home, why did he stare at GZ and then circle his truck? Why did he run - and when he did run, why didn't he run home? How did he end up in nearly the same place he was first spotted two minutes after he ran? A "statement" and phone records prove nothing when it comes to what he and his friend's conversation was about. We can agree to disagree, but the facts, or lack thereof, remains the same. JMO

vlpate said:

I don't know that. The girlfriend's call started at 7:12, which is two minutes after the 911 call started. GZ found him suspicious sometime before 7:09.

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Actually, imo, all we know is that Crump and a girl claims to have been talking to Trayvon. Afaik, we haven't seen her sworn affidavit. We also actually have no idea what the nature of their relationship was. Crump says she was the gf, but afaik, the girl didn't speak to their relationship. I may have missed that part of her interview, though. I only heard a tiny part. jmo

vlpate said:

If he was simply walking home, why did he stare at GZ and then circle his truck? Why did he run - and when he did run, why didn't he run home? How did he end up in nearly the same place he was first spotted two minutes after he ran? A "statement" and phone records prove nothing when it comes to what he and his friend's conversation was about. We can agree to disagree, but the facts, or lack thereof, remains the same. JMO

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Trayvon circled GZ's truck? Trayvon ran, ended up at the same place he first started? "Stared" at GZ? Those are not facts, as of today. None of us know what happened that night. We all will have a better idea once the documents are released.

I would run from a madman who was following me, I would stare at him wondering what his problem is, IF these are indeed facts, and I would SCREAM for my life, and try to fight with all I had, if I had the misfortune to run into a want to be cop, with a criminal record, who is nothing more than a failure, even at his neighborhood watch volunteer job.

I will still stick with the charging documents, and believe Trayvon is the victim, until I see otherwise. I respect your right to have your opinion as well, although I don't agree. It would be pretty boring here, if we all expected each other, to agree with one another. :seeya:

Still can't wait for the doc dump. :waiting:

vlpate said:

It does not appear to me either side is anxious for the records to be released:

Is secrecy justified in George Zimmerman case?

"Right when it appeared that April 12 hearing was over, Special Prosecutor Angela Corey whispered something to Zimmerman's attorney Mark O'Mara -- and the microphones picked it up.

"What about the sealing?" Corey asked O'Mara."

.

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From your link...

O'Mara, however, disputes that the information needs to be released to the public now. Despite how O'Mara demanded discovery within 15 days of April 12 in his motion, on two occasions he told Local 6 -- once during an April 25 phone interview and again in person after Friday's hearing -- that the 15 day deadline that marks when Corey is required to turn over discovery to him, and then the public, doesn't start ticking until a defendant's arraignment. Zimmerman's is set for May 8.

The day after Local 6 published a story explaining how Ponce refuted O'Mara's deadline pegging discovery disclosure requirements to the upcoming May 8 arraignment, O'Mara backed off his initial statement and made a different argument about why Corey isn't required to release the discovery to members of the public.

"While the rules do state that discovery is due 15 days from demand, that is a right which George Zimmerman enjoys, and it is up to his defense team to decide how to handle these matters," read a statement on GZLegalCase.com, a website O'Mara setup partly to "dispute misinformation."

"We are delaying demanding the discovery until we can file motions to protect these witnesses," O'Mara's statement continues. "Once that is in place, discovery will flow to us, then the media and the public has access to it, under our rules."

But several lawyers Local 6 interviewed believe O'Mara is too late. They don't see how he can file a written demand for discovery within 15 days of April 12 with the court, and then somehow claim the deadline in Rule 3.220(b) doesn't apply -- just so that he can delay the public release of the records in order to file a motion to hide witness information he had plenty of time to file before the deadline.

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Why all the waffling? It's not the SA dragging their feet - they have no reason.

vlpate said:

If he was simply walking home, why did he stare at GZ and then circle his truck? Why did he run - and when he did run, why didn't he run home? How did he end up in nearly the same place he was first spotted two minutes after he ran? A "statement" and phone records prove nothing when it comes to what he and his friend's conversation was about. We can agree to disagree, but the facts, or lack thereof, remains the same. JMO

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If TM circled his truck, why didn't GZ tell the dispatcher that? GZ was on the phone with LE when TM walked by him.


JMO, HMO

AngelWings444 said:

Of course the prosecution wants some things sealed! That was a long time ago. I'm sure they are ready to get this started. The defense is the only party that benefits from a delay.

Tick-Toc.

Document dump soon?? lease:

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The ARTICLE I cited was from May 2.

"O'Mara's April 12 filing states: "Pursuant to Rule 3.220 of the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure, the Defendant hereby respectfully demands that, within fifteen (15) days of the date hereof, the State Attorney disclose to and permit the undersigned attorney to inspect and/or copy any and all relevant information and materials."

The deadline of April 27 is significant, because at that point Corey is required to disclose the records to Zimmerman -- and once that happens the records no longer meet the definition of criminal investigative information exempt from Sunshine Law, according to Scott Ponce, an attorney hired by several news entities to fight for the public's access in the case."
.

lisalei321 said:

If TM circled his truck, why didn't GZ tell the dispatcher that? GZ was on the phone with LE when TM walked by him.


JMO, HMO

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I don't disagree, and I can't help but wonder why this just came out during the bond hearing - I think from the prosecution. I know there has to be a reason, I just haven't figured that reason out yet.

vlpate said:

The ARTICLE I cited was from May 2.

"O'Mara's April 12 filing states: "Pursuant to Rule 3.220 of the Florida Rules of Criminal Procedure, the Defendant hereby respectfully demands that, within fifteen (15) days of the date hereof, the State Attorney disclose to and permit the undersigned attorney to inspect and/or copy any and all relevant information and materials."

The deadline of April 27 is significant, because at that point Corey is required to disclose the records to Zimmerman -- and once that happens the records no longer meet the definition of criminal investigative information exempt from Sunshine Law, according to Scott Ponce, an attorney hired by several news entities to fight for the public's access in the case."
.

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I meant the hearing was a long time ago. Sorry for the confusion. You were talking about the hearing, where AC asked to have some things sealed, I said that was a long time ago.

What's the hold up now? Only the defense benefits from the delay. JMO

suzihawk said:

From your link...

O'Mara, however, disputes that the information needs to be released to the public now. Despite how O'Mara demanded discovery within 15 days of April 12 in his motion, on two occasions he told Local 6 -- once during an April 25 phone interview and again in person after Friday's hearing -- that the 15 day deadline that marks when Corey is required to turn over discovery to him, and then the public, doesn't start ticking until a defendant's arraignment. Zimmerman's is set for May 8.

The day after Local 6 published a story explaining how Ponce refuted O'Mara's deadline pegging discovery disclosure requirements to the upcoming May 8 arraignment, O'Mara backed off his initial statement and made a different argument about why Corey isn't required to release the discovery to members of the public.

"While the rules do state that discovery is due 15 days from demand, that is a right which George Zimmerman enjoys, and it is up to his defense team to decide how to handle these matters," read a statement on GZLegalCase.com, a website O'Mara setup partly to "dispute misinformation."

"We are delaying demanding the discovery until we can file motions to protect these witnesses," O'Mara's statement continues. "Once that is in place, discovery will flow to us, then the media and the public has access to it, under our rules."

But several lawyers Local 6 interviewed believe O'Mara is too late. They don't see how he can file a written demand for discovery within 15 days of April 12 with the court, and then somehow claim the deadline in Rule 3.220(b) doesn't apply -- just so that he can delay the public release of the records in order to file a motion to hide witness information he had plenty of time to file before the deadline.

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Why all the waffling? It's not the SA dragging their feet - they have no reason.

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"Hide" witness information? How about "witness 'identifying' information"?

Again, from the same link: "When denying requests from the public for the Zimmerman discovery records Friday, Corey's office told Local 6 Florida law allowed her to keep the records secret using a criminal investigative exemption because "no records have been provided to the defendant."

AngelWings444 said:

I meant the hearing was a long time ago. Sorry for the confusion. You were talking about the hearing, where AC asked to have some things sealed, I said that was a long time ago.

What's the hold up now? Only the defense benefits from the delay. JMO

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How so?

Karmady said:

Actually, imo, all we know is that Crump and a girl claims to have been talking to Trayvon. Afaik, we haven't seen her sworn affidavit. We also actually have no idea what the nature of their relationship was. Crump says she was the gf, but afaik, the girl didn't speak to their relationship. I may have missed that part of her interview, though. I only heard a tiny part. jmo

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IIRC, the Gilbreath only affirmed that they have records that the call was made during the time the 911 call was in progress. He said nothing about what was said during the call. He admitted he, nor anyone else, knows who confronted whom. JMO

AngelWings444 said:

Of course the prosecution wants some things sealed! That was a long time ago. I'm sure they are ready to get this started. The defense is the only party that benefits from a delay.

Tick-Toc.

Document dump soon?? lease:

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Exactly! What is this obvious delay all about?

IIRC, both sides have agreed that the names of the witnesses should be protected, but why hasn't the general information (with those names redacted) been released yet?

vlpate said:

How so?

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I realize that most of us are bored to tears with the lack of information released, but I have already stated some of my reasons. Don't need to have 20 pages of back and forth, on a simple statement/opinion, nor do I want to seem like I am singling you out. :seeya:

Document dump, anyone? :floorlaugh:

AngelWings444 said:

I meant the hearing was a long time ago. Sorry for the confusion. You were talking about the hearing, where AC asked to have some things sealed, I said that was a long time ago.

What's the hold up now? Only the defense benefits from the delay. JMO

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BBM
I guess when discovery is finally released we will be able to say which side benefited from a delay. There could be things that the state isn't too happy about being released and their hoping for a delay to minimize media exposure.

RANCH said:

BBM
I guess when discovery is finally released we will be able to say which side benefited from a delay. There could be things that the state isn't too happy about being released and their hoping for a delay to minimize media exposure.

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The media will be all over it, no matter when it's released. A delay will not postpone that fact. I bet, we can all agree on that one. :yesss: