4 years later, what do we think of the case / verdict now?

Curiouser+Curiouser said:

You're probably right. I'm overcomplicating. I've never been to the area and that experiment is pretty compelling and she was "over three foot". I'd forgotten how big that would make her to carry. How horrible to just sling your child away. Thanks for replying

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There's a post on scared monkey's about Zenaida Gonazlez being a code for where Caylee's remains were found, that being down her street. I tried to link it but it won't let me. You can google it.

I always found it very odd KC says in her statements that she dropped her off between 9 -1 at zanny's. Odd because she couldn't narrow it better than a 4 hour window. (I definitely know when my kids are dropped at child care) Then in the jail house video I swear she tells LA that Caylee is still "close to hope". We all know from the records that KC had been doing searches for ZG before the 16th and a my space page was created for her. I think this does all tie together in a neat little crazy KC bow. I think she spent some time and research on the 17th/18th where to leave the remains (driving near the airport, driving to parks) but the thought process was the near the home woods was easier, faster and some place she could go back and check on periodically.

We discussed that theory here too at the time. I really do not think Casey was using code to let anyone know where Caylee was.

Justiceseeker35 said:

There's a post on scared monkey's about Zenaida Gonazlez being a code for where Caylee's remains were found, that being down her street. I tried to link it but it won't let me. You can google it.

I always found it very odd KC says in her statements that she dropped her off between 9 -1 at zanny's. Odd because she couldn't narrow it better than a 4 hour window. (I definitely know when my kids are dropped at child care) Then in the jail house video I swear she tells LA that Caylee is still "close to hope". We all know from the records that KC had been doing searches for ZG before the 16th and a my space page was created for her. I think this does all tie together in a neat little crazy KC bow. I think she spent some time and research on the 17th/18th where to leave the remains (driving near the airport, driving to parks) but the thought process was the near the home woods was easier, faster and some place she could go back and check on periodically.

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That 9-1 time was the time, then boyfriend , Tony L had class ..she knew the time he was in class of course

I still think she is guilty. I think she took her anger from the fight her and Cindy had and directed it to Caylee to spite Cindy. It was Caylee, Caylee, Caylee to Cindy and Casey couldnt stand it.

Mrs G Norris said:

I recently watched a lot of the trial over, and in particular closing arguments .. it struck me that the State failed to prove a large part of their case, and the way Baez showed the jury that, and the way Mason took the jury through reasonable doubt led the jury to their inevitable verdict. It didn't seem inevitable to us at the time because we were so immersed in the case and had heard nothing but pro prosecution arguments for so long .. I agree with Tricia, I actually think Casey most likely killed Caylee, but most likely isn't good enough for a conviction, and nor should it be.

I think if the jury had seen the 'foolproof suffication' search the outcome may have been different, it's a concern to me that OCSO missed that when they went through the computer searches, yet Baez's computer expert picked it up .. don't we want the State to be better detectives with all the resources available to them than the defense?

On chloroform .. prosecutors alleged that Casey used chloroform to render Caylee unconscious before placing duct tape over her nose and mouth to suffocate her. Yet, they never showed how Casey obtained it. Did she make it? If so where and how? Did she buy it? If so who from?

Another thing that has always bothered me, the state was firm in that the duct tape was placed over the nose and mouth holding the mandible in place, yet we were never shown any in-situ photographs which would have given us a chance to judge for ourselves, so personally I have no idea whether I agree with their assessment or not.

I believe the jury did the right thing based on what was before them, and what was not. I think the media hype surrounding the case not only had an impact on jury selection, but also impacted public expectation of a guilty verdict.

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ITA ~ I started re-watching the trial as well, in particular, GA and Cindy, and I have a hard time understanding the truth. There is doubt, when witnesses on the stand act suspicious, IMO.

Baez, IMO, was a far better attorney than the whole state put together.

ElleElle said:

ITA ~ I started re-watching the trial as well, in particular, GA and Cindy, and I have a hard time understanding the truth. There is doubt, when witnesses on the stand act suspicious, IMO.

Baez, IMO, was a far better attorney than the whole state put together.

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I know what you mean about Baez, I was so convinced at the time he was an incompetent lawyer, however watching the trial back there's no denying he did a good job of emphasizing holes in the states case, I thought his closing was very well delivered, and feel that I underestimated him going into trial.

Intermezzo said:

That 9-1 time was the time, then boyfriend , Tony L had class ..she knew the time he was in class of course

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Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless little bits of reality are breaking through in the telling of fantasy.

Justiceseeker35 said:

Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless little bits of reality are breaking through in the telling of fantasy.

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Imo, it was never fantasy. It was bold face lies. All of it... She just kept getting caught in the lies and had to make adjustments on the fly, so her story got really ridiculous.... The defense had to come up with something, so they substituted the word fantasy for lie, threw in a few imaginary friends, tossed george under the bus, and made up a crazy story about compartmentalization....

She was a pathological liar who needed a defense for murdering her child...

All jmo.

ElleElle said:

ITA ~ I started re-watching the trial as well, in particular, GA and Cindy, and I have a hard time understanding the truth. There is doubt, when witnesses on the stand act suspicious, IMO.

Baez, IMO, was a far better attorney than the whole state put together.

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But, Ga and Cindy are her parents. Wouldn't you expect them to "not act right" when they are testifying in a trial that could end their daughter's life? And ca perjured herself...If we start basing the outcome of trials on the testimony, or behavior, of the defendant's parents then we'll have a society littered with criminals walking the streets... That's what happened here, imo, I don't think jbaez did anything but cross ethical lines and tell a lie about ga molesting fca, without a shred of evidence.

All jmo.

Justiceseeker35 said:

Still doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless little bits of reality are breaking through in the telling of fantasy.

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IMO
She is a liar, a deceiver, a fabricator..plain and simple

Intermezzo said:

IMO
She is a liar, a deceiver, a fabricator..plain and simple

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Some people give her way too much credit... I don't know why, but it still blows my mind every single time I hear someone quote anything from her defense like it's for real... :doh:

All jmo.

Nice to see that discussion is still happening for Caylee. I am jumping right in to post----apolgies if I am repeating what has been said already.

I have always believed that Casey killed her daughter. The "drowning in the back yard pool" story does not ring true. Nor the additional lie that George was present at the time, and did not help revive Caylee. Neighbors would have heard shouts, screams etc that accompany such an event. I cannot even begin to get into the disgusting accusation that George molested Casey. If there were any truth to that, Caylee would never have been left in the presence of George. Cindy would have never trusted him. Nor Lee or Casey for that matter (IMO).

heidisams said:

But, Ga and Cindy are her parents. Wouldn't you expect them to "not act right" when they are testifying in a trial that could end their daughter's life? And ca perjured herself...If we start basing the outcome of trials on the testimony, or behavior, of the defendant's parents then we'll have a society littered with criminals walking the streets... That's what happened here, imo, I don't think jbaez did anything but cross ethical lines and tell a lie about ga molesting fca, without a shred of evidence.

All jmo.

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I think GA committed perjury too. I don't think he ever saw them leave together that day at 12:50 to go off to Zannys. He went to work and left KC where she always was myspacing and google searching on the home pc and poor Caylee begging her Mom to just pay attention to her for once.

i too am still disgusted to this very day that FCA got away with murder...not even being found of neglect. lets face it caylee was last seen alive with FCA...as someone else echoed, i have heard of cases where guilty verdict was found with even LESS evidence than here...i too believe it was just lazy jurors. i do NOT buy the drowning story, nor that GA molested FCA. the fact that she and baez was willing to throw him under the bus like that was disgusting. i too believe the FCA was spiteful of the relationship that caylee and CA had, and that infamous fight over her stealing $/ the choking was the straw that broke the camels back/ FCA killing caylee to spite CA> i will always believe that. i do on occassion check in here to see updates; forgive me, i want to see karma served..and being a virtual prisoner ( in hiding because she is so hated) sorry not good enough for me.

I think she was overcharged with the death penalty. Maybe even with 1st degree murder. Maybe in the closing arguments, JA could have mentioned the other things the jury could find her guilty of. Jerice was just convicted of Jhessye Shockley's murder, and there was less evidence there. Not even a body. The prosecution made mistakes, but I also think they had a stupid jury to work with.

I've thought about rewatching the trial, but I don't want to reactivate my PTSD.

wallflower67 said:

I think she was overcharged with the death penalty. Maybe even with 1st degree murder. Maybe in the closing arguments, JA could have mentioned the other things the jury could find her guilty of. Jerice was just convicted of Jhessye Shockley's murder, and there was less evidence there. Not even a body. The prosecution made mistakes, but I also think they had a stupid jury to work with.

I've thought about rewatching the trial, but I don't want to reactivate my PTSD.

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3 pieces of duct tape... That's all it would've taken for me to convict her of 1st degree murder. If you wade through all the confusion, and even the mistakes, it still meets the standard, imo. Premeditation can be formed in the blink of the eye. She had more than enough time to know that Caylee would die as a result of her actions... She had to cut each piece of tape, add each piece of tape, all while looking in her baby's eyes... Yah, they charged her right. Imo...

The problem occurred before the trial, imo, in jury selection. This jury was never going to give her death, they weren't a true death qualified panel. Some didn't even believe in the death penalty, they said as much, yet they were still selected. I also think there were one or two stealth jurors who got on, and then took over in deliberations... It was over before it began...

All jmo.

heidisams said:

3 pieces of duct tape... That's all it would've taken for me to convict her of 1st degree murder. If you wade through all the confusion, and even the mistakes, it still meets the standard, imo. Premeditation can be formed in the blink of the eye. She had more than enough time to know that Caylee would die as a result of her actions... She had to cut each piece of tape, add each piece of tape, all while looking in her baby's eyes... Yah, they charged her right. Imo...

The problem occurred before the trial, imo, in jury selection. This jury was never going to give her death, they weren't a true death qualified panel. Some didn't even believe in the death penalty, they said as much, yet they were still selected. I also think there were one or two stealth jurors who got on, and then took over in deliberations... It was over before it began...

All jmo.

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I, personally, agree. But I think there would have been a better chance of conviction had she not been up for the death penalty. The duct tape was all it took to convince me too, but I also knew about everything else there was to know. I spent months looking at each piece of evidence. The jury didn't. I underestimated the possibility that people wouldn't want to sentence a young, pretty girl to death. That is what they saw in the courtroom, even after the pictures of the "ugly grieving," etc. The jury selection was awful too.

I think George perjured himself also, when he said he was "elated" when he found out his daughter was pregnant. I have a daughter in college and I told her flat out if she came to me and said she was pregnant, after spending the last several months saying she was a virgin, my first question would be, "Whose the father?" and the second would be, "Was it consensual?" I would certainly love the baby but in no way would I be elated. And if said daughter was a pathological liar and a high school dropout, I'd be even more upset.

It's a small thing, but I think it shows how easily the family lies about pretty much anything and everything.

hot cawfee said:

Nice to see that discussion is still happening for Caylee. I am jumping right in to post----apolgies if I am repeating what has been said already.

I have always believed that Casey killed her daughter. The "drowning in the back yard pool" story does not ring true. Nor the additional lie that George was present at the time, and did not help revive Caylee. Neighbors would have heard shouts, screams etc that accompany such an event. I cannot even begin to get into the disgusting accusation that George molested Casey. If there were any truth to that, Caylee would never have been left in the presence of George. Cindy would have never trusted him. Nor Lee or Casey for that matter (IMO).

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There is no evidence that Caylee ever left the house. All of the items associated with the body apparently came from the house. Caylee was not with Casey after she left and went to live elsewhere. Her body was not in the car either, this we can be sure about otherwise there would be body fluids in the car. You could argue that her body might have been in a bag and that prevented fluids from leaking, but they supposedly recovered a "death hair" from the car. If this really was a death hair, then the body could not have been stored there in a bag, since it would have no way of getting out.

My theory is that Casey left the house to live elsewhere, with Caylee being left in the care of the grandparents. Something happened, Caylee died and for whatever reason a decision was made not to report it. IMO the body was stored in the house long enough for some decomposition to start, and then it was put into the bag and transported in the car to the swamp. Obviously this could not have happened overnight, it was longer than that. This would explain the hair, because in that scenario a loose hair could have detached post-mortem and stuck to the outside of the bag when the body was put in it. Then it subsequently would have been deposited in the car when the bag was transported.

That chloroform stuff was a lot of nonsense, and I have always said so. I am a chemist and I work with the stuff all the time. I found the prosecutions claims about that pressing credibility severely, and I think they went down the wrong road with all that.

The question is, is there any evidence that Casey had the car outside of what the grandparents claimed? Because if she didn't have the car then they would be the next suspects in line and consequently you can't rely solely on what they say happened.

I think it is entirely possible that Casey had no idea exactly what happened to her daughter until Caylee's body was recovered. In the interim she may have been basically helping to protect her parents, closing ranks around someone else in the family.

IMO such a scenario would explain a lot of what subsequently happened. But we will never know unless one of them tells the truth about what really happened.

heidisams said:

3 pieces of duct tape... That's all it would've taken for me to convict her of 1st degree murder. If you wade through all the confusion, and even the mistakes, it still meets the standard, imo. Premeditation can be formed in the blink of the eye. She had more than enough time to know that Caylee would die as a result of her actions... She had to cut each piece of tape, add each piece of tape, all while looking in her baby's eyes... Yah, they charged her right. Imo...

The problem occurred before the trial, imo, in jury selection. This jury was never going to give her death, they weren't a true death qualified panel. Some didn't even believe in the death penalty, they said as much, yet they were still selected. I also think there were one or two stealth jurors who got on, and then took over in deliberations... It was over before it began...

All jmo.

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Not being "a true death qualified panel" was irrelevant since they acquitted her, meaning that the prosecution had failed to prove beyond reasonable doubt that she had murdered her child. IMO that was the correct verdict given the evidence presented since the prosecution did not prove their case. If the jury didn't believe in the death penalty they still had the option of convicting but not going with the DP in the second phase, but they acquitted with a 12-0 vote.

If she had been charged with conspiracy to conceal a homicide, or something like that, she probably would have been convicted. IMO a reasonable case could be made for something like that. But murder was never going to fly with the evidence they had if the jury was fair and impartial. The prosecution messed up badly, they went to trial on charges to satisfy public opinion rather than based on the actual evidence they had, and paid the price for such arrogance. They probably believed that they could sway the jury with emotive argument in the absence of compelling evidence, but the jury didn't fall for that trick.