MTR Discussions

Summersolstice said:

It is not uncommon for police to use investigative strategies, such as manipulating information.

Let's take the example of the police saying that MR's car was spotted in the Guelph Home Depot parking lot. They let people assume that the still photo taken from the video was the Guelph Home Depot parking lot. However, people from Guelph said that it sure didn't look like the Home Depot parking lot. It wasn't. It was an Esso station in Woodstock.

Initially, the photo did not show a time stamp. Later photos showed a time stamp, and we learned from the gas station owner that the time on the camera was incorrect. This may have hindered the police investigation if they did not verify the time on the camera for themselves. Little details like this are important. Some businesses don't bother switching video cameras to DST.

This detail of the time made many believe the photo was, indeed, taken in Guelph. There was time to travel to Guelph after picking Tori up in this scenario -- barely.

They let people jump to incorrect conclusions, intentionally I would say. Why? We don't know. Maybe they didn't actually know that MR/TLM went there, but hoped someone would come forward to give a statement saying that they saw them.

They obviously knew all along that this photo was taken in Woodstock. They took the video for evidence.

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I so totally agree with what you have said! I am inclined to believe that TLM is guilty and that she was the instigating party because we have seen a portion of the video with her leading Tori away, and her assisting LE in locating her remains. I absolutely believe that MR had some involvement - but I am not sure to what extent. I understand that LE likely arrested him for good reason - but what that is exactly I am not sure. Obviously he has some culpability - my understanding of the charges is that the first degree charge is levied when a child dies as a result of being kidnapped/abducted (which was indeed the case) and so is a valid charge under the circumstances. In any case, it will all come out at trial.

On a different note, there is no doubt in my mind that TLM is the greater evil and I am inclined to believe that it is she who is the sexual predator/sadist/molester more so than MR and that she did indeed target Tori both as an act of vengance upon TM and to satisfy her own bizarre fantasies.

I am content though to wait until the trials begin to hear the evidence.

All this fence sitting has left a sliver up the crack of my *ss. Hopin that TLM pleads out first even though the evidence will be suppressed until MR's trial.

Here is a perfect and recent example of two people who were each originally charged (OPP) with EIGHT counts of first degree murder in a local case.

http://pbdba.lfpress.com/cgi-bin/publish.cgi?p=146685&s=massacre

ST. THOMAS -- A bail hearing is set for Thursday for one of the men charged in the Bandidos massacre.

Eric Niessen, 45, of Monkton in Perth County, is charged with eight counts of being an accessory after the fact.

He was originally charged with eight counts of first-degree murder along with four others following the discovery of eight dead Bandidos bikers on Elgin County's Stafford Line on April 8.

He and his common-law wife, Kerry Morris, 46 -- the only woman charged -- both had their charges revised to accessory after the fact in the days following their arrest at the farm of Wayne Kellestine, 57, in Dutton-Dunwich.

There was a publication ban in place for quite some time prior to the main event trial, although the charges against the two had been properly dealt with. The removal of the ban revealed that one of the men charged, Eric Niessen, 46, of Monkton, a self-described Bandido supporter, pleaded guilty to obstruction of justice in October, 2008 in connection with the case. He was sentenced to two years in jail.

Charges of obstruction of justice and being an accessory after the fact were withdrawn against another of the accused, Kerry Morris (female).

The publication ban effectively left the public believing that the two were still facing first degree murder charges, and unaware of their "lesser involvement" until such time as the trial began. It must have been extremely difficult on both of them - the man was retained in custody - the woman released on bail - during the time leading up to the trial. Very hush.

As I said, perfect example of over-charging. The charges were not reduced until the preliminary hearing stage - which was about a year after the crimes were committed. It is still possible that the Crown may revise the charges against MR to lesser charges of accessory after the fact or obstruction of justice (although unlikely since the victim died during the course of a kidnapping and that is an extenuating circumstance).

It will be interesting to hear exactly what the charge(s) will be against MR when his court date finally arrives.

I was intrigued back in August when I posted this after coming across this article published in the Toronto Star

nonfictionrocks said:

Since it has been quiet here on this thread I have spent some time catching up on the Bandido Trial and reading back on the many articles the Toronto Star's Peter Edwards wrote. I found this very interesting article regarding a woman K. Morris who was originally involved with the Massacre and charged with first degree murder. The article states:

Morris was originally among the eight people charged with eight counts of first-degree murder after the massacre of eight members of the Bandidos biker gang, whose bullet-riddled bodies were found in vehicles along a muddy side road near the southwestern Ontario hamlet of Shedden on April 8, 2006.

Morris spent six weeks in custody before charges against her were reduced to being an accessory after the fact and obstruction of justice, and she was released on bail.

Those charges were dropped as well on Oct. 15, but the media was barred from reporting that until now because of a publication ban.

http://www.thestar.com/article/284798

It is interesting to note that this article is written a year and a half after her arrest and the media was just able to finally mention this charge getting dropped!

Makes me wonder what really is going on in this case that is not being reported by the media at this time.

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What are we, the public, really not hearing about in this case?

nonfictionrocks said:

I was intrigued back in August when I posted this after coming across this article published in the Toronto Star



What are we, the public, really not hearing about in this case?

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The information about EN and KM has been out there, but was buried in the news. By this I am referring to KM's name being mentioned in early reports of the arrest, but later I recall reading that there was a publication ban against releasing her name. Too late. We already knew.

I still wonder about the mystery woman in the murder of SD. This woman set up SD, then witnessed the murder and was forced to clean up. She testified against the killers at the trial.

The SD murder is relevant to PS and JF and so, it seems, to the Shedden Bandidos trial.

What were EN and KM doing there, and what role did they play?

The back-door deals and paid informants are things we may never know about. The VS murder is mostly about what we don't know, and a lot of which we never will.

MR's next court date is April 23rd.

Michael Rafferty did attend Crosby Height Public school when he was young .The school is located in the south end of Richmond hill It is located around Yonge street and north of Major Mackenize .THe kids going to that elementary school would have gone to the high school he claims to have graduated from but we all now he only got 1 credit there!....robynhood...I know the area well as I used to live there and was empolyed with the York region board when I was teaching around 10 years ago!

I think the courts are going to uncover plenty of lies about this guy e.g. his education, his apparent job as a contractor, his use of drugs, women in his life. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a juvenile record, like TLM. JMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/638574

matou said:

I think the courts are going to uncover plenty of lies about this guy e.g. his education, his apparent job as a contractor, his use of drugs, women in his life. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a juvenile record, like TLM. JMO

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/638574

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I agree with you on this point Matou. I was reading some media reports today and it became apparent to me that MR lied quite a bit. But when I looked back on reports of TLM's I could not find info showing her as a habitual liar. At least not like MR. Her reports were more along the spectrum of her hard knock life. I saw TLM was a lost soul and looking to belong, to be loved or to fit in somewhere in society. Unfortunately she meet up with MR who probably gave her false hope, promises and lies. Do I feel sorry for TLM? Not at all. I tend to believe once caught, she was honest with LE and did try to help in locating TS. Taking into account she was high on drugs and more then likely did not paying much attention to directions travelled, she had a hard time leading LE to TS.

Yes MR's lies will come back to haunt him during his trial. I am feeling pretty certain TLM (and others, friends, exes) will help to reveal his many lies, which will not help his defence. JMHO matou so please don't throw rotten tomatoes at me please lol. :floorlaugh:

More lies
http://www.thestar.com/article/637413

and more. Interesting hmm :waitasec:
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo..._suspects_090521/20090521/?hub=TorontoNewHome

What happened with MTR's first lawyer? Was he fired? Did he get permission to be removed as counsel for fear of losing this case?

This link provides us with the name of MR's first and second lawyer. It doesn't give reason as to why the change Matou. I'm going with your second guess. Lol, typical lawyer jargon what S. Reid claims in his statement (below). Isn't that what every suspect hopes his lawyer will do for them, uh hello?! TS remains hadn't even been found at the time of his statement. Her remains could be what sinks MR's ship. Fight the alleigations all you like, but evidence is unchangable. JMHO

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20090717/090717_stafford?hub=CP24Home

Hal Mattson is out as Rafferty's counsel and replaced by Scott Reid of the Toronto-based law firm Derstine-Penman.

Reid would not say why Rafferty made the change, adding he intends to "vigorously defend" Rafferty and challenge the allegations.

I know MR has more than one lawyer on his case from that firm, S. Reid and D. Dirkstine. The old saying "two heads are better than one", not always.

Hi everyone. I realize this isn't a really active topic right now but I'm feeling a need to chime in at this point (for no particular reason). I went to Alexander Mackenzie H.S. from '94 - '99 and was introduced to MTR in '94 at a party by some friends who knew him from a church group (if memory serves me correctly). I was 14 yrs old at the time. I have NO recollection of him ever attending school with me, though I understand the school confirmed he received a credit from there. Only that he was a friend of a particular crowd of guys I associated with and that he left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Anyways...I thought I could pipe up on "Cundy" and a little bit about Richmond Hill and why his living there doesn't mean he has some hidden means to access attorneys...

Turbododger said:

Rafferty could indeed be a maiden name, Maxfactor, though not likely, I don't think that was very common 30 years ago, to do that. JMO

Good thinking, though, think outside the box.

That leaves the question, how are the names Cundy and Murphy related here?

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FWIW I was introduced to him as Mike Cundy in '94 and I remember he had an older brother whose already been discussed on this thread I believe.

bleedingheart said:

The Richmond Hill address MTR gave as a one time residence. Is this not a wealthy area of Toronto??? This makes me wonder sometimes if the politician Rafferty had this address also at one time . JMOO.
This is still a thought of mine simply because I am nosey and would like to know where all the money is comming from for M.R defense and those expensive lawyers.

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Richmond Hill is a suburb about 20 - 30 mins. north of TO and not all of it is wealthy. Richmond Hill has government housing projects, mansions and everything in between. I have no idea where he lived.

I think it's too bad that the jury was only given info on who MR sent and received text messages with, but not the actual content. It's possible that nobody has the actual content of the text messages. I remember years ago, if I read when my bill online, the content was there. Then when texting really took off, my cell phone company said they were going to stop tracking that information. I never saw text content on my bill again.

CuriousJorge said:

According to this report (3rd paragraph from the bottom) MR's educational background. I have read other reports also where he has apparently lied about his post high school education also. Have not found them yet.

MOO

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/638574

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Thanks for the article CJ


Rafferty claimed on his MySpace page to have graduated from Alexander Mackenzie High School, but the Richmond Hill school says it didn't happen. Rafferty only attended from Sept. '95 to March '96, acquiring just one credit, a York Region school board spokesman said.

Rafferty also claimed he studied to be a chef at George Brown, but on a cursory search the college found no record, a spokesperson said.

Jim Bender, owner of Lady Godiva's Adult Emporium, which is also Woodstock's pipes and bongs supplier, says Rafferty used to come in often to buy water pipes. "He looked worse for wear the last time I saw him" early this year, he said.