17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #10

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What was he saying?

Nothing earth shattering really. Basically just explaining the self defense laws and which one would apply and which one wouldn't etc. I always value his input. He did finally take the defense attorney view and a few of us had questions. IMO, he left out a few of the details of what happened that night.

FWIW, I like Richard. I rarely agree with him but I still like him. lol.
 
No, and I have stated this earlier in the thread. I don't have to give up my gun because I don't have one.

I have a Beretta (I think that's the spelling). It's little bitty. OT: my dh was checking it one evening after I told him about someone who stopped in our yard and looked in the window then left. I was in the back of the house and heard two very loud pops and freaked. At first he didn't hear me call his name, cause the sound caused momentary deafness. The gun fired 2 bullets and one lodged in the headboard of our bed, the other in the closet. Something went wrong, don't know what.
 
Because I might have to travel to places outside of my neighborhood, and then re-enter my neighborhood?

Maybe lock it in your glovebox while you are patroling in your neighborhood and then when you leave, unlock it and carry.
 
I understand that when merely observing and reporting, it shouldn't enter the picture. I totally get that. I'm saying that a lot of people have brought up that when you're a member of/acting as a part of the neighborhood watch program, you're not supposed to carry a gun.

I think some people are thinking of the citizen patrol group that are not permitted to carry guns who are outside of this community. They are only permitted to have radios on them when they are on duty. There is no duty under the NWP according to their manual. It's just you look out your window and you see someone breaking glass you call it in you don't go out and chase the person away. They might have a gun and LE does not want you to engage someone committing a crime. So the gun never enters into in that case. GZ called from his car, he should have stayed in the car. If GZ called from the comfort of his home, he should have stayed there. LE never expected, required or even asked him to pursue a subject. The confrontation is the issue, not the gun, the gun should never have been an issue. The issue is GZ should have never pursued TM. There was no reason. GZ never witnessed TM in the act of a crime but called it in anyway so he was obligated to follow the rules not to act on his own.

In this case the end does not justify the means. The gun, itself, should never have been an issue. The issue is GZ's actions created the end result because it never would have happened had he stayed in his car as he was told to do. jmo
 
LOL, it has a lot to do with whether or not your gun is MAGENTA in color.

Personally, I don't have a lot of use for hand guns in general. I'm an avid hunter and certainly own my share of rifles and shotguns so I'm not at all anti guns.

Seriously, if you and I found ourselves living in a gated community where we each were concerned about criminals invading our surroundings, the answer is NO, I would have no problem with a responsible approach to try and alleviate the situation. As another owner, your interest is my interest and vice versa.
:floorlaugh:

I'm not too concerned about having turf wars with criminals. I do carry a gun regularly, though, and was just wondering how someone like yourself would view it. I have never thought about it from the perspective of an HOA-style community before, where everyone might share liability. Thanks for the answer. :)
 
Ok. So no contract, no limitations on guns or other weapons. But on the watch 24/7. Got it.
I can't say with 100% that you are told not to use weapons, but it's a moot point in my case, so I don't recall any instruction in that area. Other posters here have said that NWP specifically forbids guns. I was not given a manual.
 
So GZ was going to the store. Not acting in NW Captain capacity. No reason not to have his permitted concealed-carry gun of choice with him.

He did not self-identify as part of or Captain of the NW in his call to the non-emergency number (and now I have to go back and see if we can discover whether he usually did or did not self-identify in his previous calls). But so be it. He's a citizen who cares about his neighborhood, who's going to the store and notices a potential suspicious person and calls it in to the non-emergency line.

For me, this is where the line blurs. Clearly he chose to do much more than watch and report; he left his vehicle and tracked and followed.

Now--for a non-NW-member citizen, IMO this decision could be written off as foolhardy bravado on the part of someone who just didn't understand that it's better to wait for LE.

But for someone who apparently started the NW program in that small community and was an alert and attentive Captain of that program (as evidenced by prior suspicious activity calls and his interactions with his neighbors)... IMO, for that person to leave their vehicle with their weapon, despite the dispatcher saying "OK we don't need you to do that" (and remember that GZ did not self-identify as a NW Captain on the call nor did he or was he required to reveal that he was armed, so the dispatcher had limited info upon which to base how strong his "we don't need you to do that" message was)...

It seems to me that

- GZ was not "on NW patrol" when he called the non-emerg # that night & was acting in his capacity as a private citizen (failure to self-identify as NW)
- Although acting in his capacity as a private citizen, GZ had knowledge of NW procedures that a non-NW resident might not have had (report, don't intervene)
- Despite acting as a private citizen, GZ chose to violate rules about NW that he surely knew; he followed someone he thought was suspicious, and had his weapon on him. He started the NW program. He knew the recommended courses of action.

I guess I really want to know what was going on in GZ's mind that night, and prior... Did he ever not see himself as Neighborhood Watch Captain when he drove around the complex? Was he ever "off-duty"? Did he expect to make a quick trip to the store and then got himself involved in a situation where he switched from regular resident reporting suspicious activity into NWC tracking down a "suspicious" figure?

Too many questions without answers yet, I know. :sigh:
 
So GZ was nearly unconscious at the scene, per his brother, but didn't go to the hospital. He also claims it was GZ screaming on the tape. Bro blames the slur on the 911 tapes, on GZ speaking 2 languages. Now he's blaming it on the tape. :what: Damage control is on high gear ! JMO

My 19 year old daughter is fluent in three languages (English, Italian & Spanish), yet she doesn't utter racial slurs because of it!
 
We gotta have an arrest before we can even talk about a doc dump!!!!


lol

O/T Alert

Hey Pssssst!!!

There might be a doc dump in the Susan Powell case tomorrow. Previously unreleased search warrants...:please:
 
So GZ was going to the store. Not acting in NW Captain capacity. No reason not to have his permitted concealed-carry gun of choice with him.

He did not self-identify as part of or Captain of the NW in his call to the non-emergency number (and now I have to go back and see if we can discover whether he usually did or did not self-identify in his previous calls). But so be it. He's a citizen who cares about his neighborhood, who's going to the store and notices a potential suspicious person and calls it in to the non-emergency line.

For me, this is where the line blurs. Clearly he chose to do much more than watch and report; he left his vehicle and tracked and followed.

Now--for a non-NW-member citizen, IMO this decision could be written off as foolhardy bravado on the part of someone who just didn't understand that it's better to wait for LE.

But for someone who apparently started the NW program in that small community and was an alert and attentive Captain of that program (as evidenced by prior suspicious activity calls and his interactions with his neighbors)... IMO, for that person to leave their vehicle with their weapon, despite the dispatcher saying "OK we don't need you to do that" (and remember that GZ did not self-identify as a NW Captain on the call nor did he or was he required to reveal that he was armed, so the dispatcher had limited info upon which to base how strong his "we don't need you to do that" message was)...

It seems to me that

- GZ was not "on NW patrol" when he called the non-emerg # that night & was acting in his capacity as a private citizen (failure to self-identify as NW)
- Although acting in his capacity as a private citizen, GZ had knowledge of NW procedures that a non-NW resident might not have had (report, don't intervene)
- Despite acting as a private citizen, GZ chose to violate rules about NW that he surely knew; he followed someone he thought was suspicious, and had his weapon on him. He started the NW program. He knew the recommended courses of action.

I guess I really want to know what was going on in GZ's mind that night, and prior... Did he ever not see himself as Neighborhood Watch Captain when he drove around the complex? Was he ever "off-duty"? Did he expect to make a quick trip to the store and then got himself involved in a situation where he switched from regular resident reporting suspicious activity into NWC tracking down a "suspicious" figure?

Too many questions without answers yet, I know. :sigh:

I can't help but wonder if GZ is "on file" as a volunteer for the SPD. It would explain some of his actions and some of the departments inactions, IMO.
 
So GZ was going to the store. Not acting in NW Captain capacity. No reason not to have his permitted concealed-carry gun of choice with him.

He did not self-identify as part of or Captain of the NW in his call to the non-emergency number (and now I have to go back and see if we can discover whether he usually did or did not self-identify in his previous calls). But so be it. He's a citizen who cares about his neighborhood, who's going to the store and notices a potential suspicious person and calls it in to the non-emergency line.

For me, this is where the line blurs. Clearly he chose to do much more than watch and report; he left his vehicle and tracked and followed.

Now--for a non-NW-member citizen, IMO this decision could be written off as foolhardy bravado on the part of someone who just didn't understand that it's better to wait for LE.

But for someone who apparently started the NW program in that small community and was an alert and attentive Captain of that program (as evidenced by prior suspicious activity calls and his interactions with his neighbors)... IMO, for that person to leave their vehicle with their weapon, despite the dispatcher saying "OK we don't need you to do that" (and remember that GZ did not self-identify as a NW Captain on the call nor did he or was he required to reveal that he was armed, so the dispatcher had limited info upon which to base how strong his "we don't need you to do that" message was)...

It seems to me that

- GZ was not "on NW patrol" when he called the non-emerg # that night & was acting in his capacity as a private citizen (failure to self-identify as NW)
- Although acting in his capacity as a private citizen, GZ had knowledge of NW procedures that a non-NW resident might not have had (report, don't intervene)
- Despite acting as a private citizen, GZ chose to violate rules about NW that he surely knew; he followed someone he thought was suspicious, and had his weapon on him. He started the NW program. He knew the recommended courses of action.

I guess I really want to know what was going on in GZ's mind that night, and prior... Did he ever not see himself as Neighborhood Watch Captain when he drove around the complex? Was he ever "off-duty"? Did he expect to make a quick trip to the store and then got himself involved in a situation where he switched from regular resident reporting suspicious activity into NWC tracking down a "suspicious" figure?

Too many questions without answers yet, I know. :sigh:

That's what I want to know.
 
Nite all! Love ya, And Angels on your pillow! :)
 
So GZ was nearly unconscious at the scene, per his brother, but didn't go to the hospital. He also claims it was GZ screaming on the tape. Bro blames the slur on the 911 tapes, on GZ speaking 2 languages. Now he's blaming it on the tape. :what: Damage control is on high gear ! JMO

BBM

Wait - hold up! Am I correct in thinking that GZ's bro admitted to the racial slur on the tape? I mean, if bro says the slur was because GZ speaks two languages - then isn't he also admitting that there is a racial slur and he (bro) heard it?
 
I can't say with 100% that you are told not to use weapons, but it's a moot point in my case, so I don't recall any instruction in that area. Other posters here have said that NWP specifically forbids guns. I was not given a manual.
If it wasn't in writing then it doesn't mean much. I'm not sure how a NWP can take a person's legal rights away without so much as a written contract, but I'm not a lawyer so I'm not sure.
 
Think about it. It is a civil case. Zimmerman is the head of the NWP. It could easily go to court and in no time end up with lawyer fees in the 100 of thousands of dollars to be shared by the homeowners.

Zimmerman does not have a home at risk like the rest of these people if they have to pay just the legal fees. It could end up a multi million dollar settlement where homes are lost. Zimmerman has no home to lose.
 
Watching CNN on the West coast at this moment...boy, Piers is asking the brother some penetrating questions!

Just objectively speaking, I think George's brother is pretty articulate, but I am not buying the things he's saying.

And the brother just said George was the more honest brother, so Lesser Honest Brother just walked right into that one lol.

I agree with everything you said.
 
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