TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #12

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Personally, I haven't seen Hammond say he's certain. I've seen him (and LE e.g. Atkinson) say they haven't found any evidence and they haven't found any indications.

To me, that's different than saying "I'm certain", and to me, it's different from making assumptions - they're saying they haven't found anything.

My understanding, based on Gail's case still being marked Active, is that they will continue to investigate, and as I understand all these cases work, if and when they do find anything to indicate foul play, then they'll go in that direction.

If anyone in the public has evidence or sees indications of foul play, then I would encourage them to document it clearly, and send it to the tip email address:

Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office
423-209-8940
Sheriff’s dispatcher 423-622-0022
investigations@hcsheriff.gov

http://www.hcsheriff.gov/

I haven't heard the sheriff state he is certain either..I'm thinking my post may have been geared toward your comments about following LE's lead in Gail's case.

You stated...
LE is telling me (the public) there is not only no physical evidence of foul play (seems to me to be the most common statement of this sort made), and no evidence period (indicates no circumstantial to me) of foul play, but have taken it all the way to telling me (the public) there is nothing at all to indicate that anything at all nefarious happened here.


As I see it, and I realize I could very well be wrong, you are thinking the Sheriff is stating he is certain nothing nefarious has occurred and you are taking LE's words as "Gospel" since they have stated there is no evidence of foul play...

Please know, IF I am wrong in assuming this is what you meant, I do apologize..
Hope I have worded that correctly.. Ragweed in this area is responsible for giving me a terrible headache..It's hard to think...JMHO..
 
Just wondering..
IF Missing Persons investigations at HCSO are handled by the Personal Crimes Unit then why is the Criminal Investigations Unit handling Gail's investigation?

Why has LE stated that MAJOR CRIMES would be looking into Gail's disappearance? Does a Missing Person fall into MAJOR CRIMES category?


The Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office Criminal Investigations Division is requesting for anyone who may have information pertaining to this missing person investigation are urged to call 423-209-8940, Sheriff’s dispatcher 423-622-0022 or submit a tip to investigations@hcsheriff.gov


http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp
 
I haven't heard the sheriff state he is certain either..I'm thinking my post may have been geared toward your comments about following LE's lead in Gail's case.

You stated...
LE is telling me (the public) there is not only no physical evidence of foul play (seems to me to be the most common statement of this sort made), and no evidence period (indicates no circumstantial to me) of foul play, but have taken it all the way to telling me (the public) there is nothing at all to indicate that anything at all nefarious happened here.


As I see it, and I realize I could very well be wrong, you are thinking the Sheriff is stating he is certain nothing nefarious has occurred and you are taking LE's words as "Gospel" since they have stated there is no evidence of foul play...

Please know, IF I am wrong in assuming this is what you meant, I do apologize..
Hope I have worded that correctly.. Ragweed in this area is responsible for giving me a terrible headache..It's hard to think...JMHO..

Thank you for explaining that to me, emeralgem, and no, I don't think, and have never thought, that the Sheriff is stating he is certain nothing nefarious has occurred.

IIRC, I've stated several times in this forum, in several different ways, in an attempt to be clear to as many people as possible, that I think just as I stated above - that LE develops a theory (what they *think* happened - *not* what they *know* or are *certain* happened - just what they *think*), and continue to investigate, and if, along the way, they do find evidence or indications that a different theory would be more appropriate, then they switch gears.

I take LE's words as "Gospel" only that, so far, they have neither found nor determined any evidence or indications of foul play.

I realize that at any time they, of course, could find evidence or indications of foul play, and that is the primary reason why I have repeatedly said that, if more information becomes available, I can change my mind about what I *think* - not *know* or am *certain* of - happened here.

It is this same *lack* of any way to be certain that leads me to continue to pursue theories related to foul play, most notably, murder for hire, which I've talked about more than once in this forum.

It is the same for me in all of these cases. No matter what I *think* is *most likely* to have happened to the person, I continue to explore - and to act on - other theories, because I feel very strongly that that is the right thing for me to do for these missing people.
 
Just wondering..
IF Missing Persons investigations at HCSO are handled by the Personal Crimes Unit then why is the Criminal Investigations Unit handling Gail's investigation?

Why has LE stated that MAJOR CRIMES would be looking into Gail's disappearance? Does a Missing Person fall into MAJOR CRIMES category?


The Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office Criminal Investigations Division is requesting for anyone who may have information pertaining to this missing person investigation are urged to call 423-209-8940, Sheriff’s dispatcher 423-622-0022 or submit a tip to investigations@hcsheriff.gov


http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp

If you look at the HCSO website, at the places I posted above, it appears, as I was trying to point out, that Personal Crimes is one of the areas that falls under their Criminal Investigations Division.

I don't recall ever seeing LE state that Major Crimes would be looking into Gail's case. I don't see anything on their site that indicates they have a Major Crimes unit.
 
Just wondering..
IF Missing Persons investigations at HCSO are handled by the Personal Crimes Unit then why is the Criminal Investigations Unit handling Gail's investigation?

Why has LE stated that MAJOR CRIMES would be looking into Gail's disappearance? Does a Missing Person fall into MAJOR CRIMES category?


The Hamilton County Sheriff’s Office Criminal Investigations Division is requesting for anyone who may have information pertaining to this missing person investigation are urged to call 423-209-8940, Sheriff’s dispatcher 423-622-0022 or submit a tip to investigations@hcsheriff.gov


http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp

That does seem like a fair question. When I saw this the first time it did send an alarm off for me. After I thought about it (for days on end) I came to adopt a possible explaination. I know that this community has limited manpower. Like many LE organizations all over their resource officers wear many hats. My son is in LE in a much larger organization and is a homicide detective. But, he also often has active cases of robbery and sexual assault and child endangerment on his plate at the same time. Also missing persons. When there is a homicide he is only one of 4 investigators. All other "major crimes" require their investigation skills as well. Lots of hats. LOOOOTs of time in court - never enough time to go around. This is how I perceive this statement in the paper.... one unit that handles all major crime, not officers who handle "petty crime". JIMO
 
What has become completely overwhelming to me since I started following the case is the sheer number of women who disappear, whose husband state the women just ran off because of marital strife. So many people seem to think it's very common for a woman to disappear, leave behind family and children and friends, abandon money and valuables and sentimental items, get a new name and new social security number and hide for the rest of their days.

In my world, it's common to get a divorce, not to disappear without a trace. As I said, that's my world, which apparently is not the real world if this case is any indication.

Then LE doesn't do any timely searches, doesn't interview the people closest to Gail, doesn't release even basic information like what Gail was wearing or what direction she was traveling so people could be on the lookout for her, then LE proclaims to the media that they have no evidence of anything. Of course they don't have any evidence of anything. Who would under those circumstances?
 
NCIC MP statistics for 2010:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010

692,944 people were entered in NCIC as missing in 2010. 62K were entered as missing in April. 355,243 total for the year were females who went missing.

Statistically speaking, it is far more likely that a missing person is either a runaway juvenile or voluntarily missing.

Look at those numbers compared to the number of detectives out there.

Resources are finite for these cases-Gail is blessed because not only is the media interested, HCSO has far larger resources to devote to her case than does SMPD.
 
That does seem like a fair question. When I saw this the first time it did send an alarm off for me. After I thought about it (for days on end) I came to adopt a possible explaination. I know that this community has limited manpower. Like many LE organizations all over their resource officers wear many hats. My son is in LE in a much larger organization and is a homicide detective. But, he also often has active cases of robbery and sexual assault and child endangerment on his plate at the same time. Also missing persons. When there is a homicide he is only one of 4 investigators. All other "major crimes" require their investigation skills as well. Lots of hats. LOOOOTs of time in court - never enough time to go around. This is how I perceive this statement in the paper.... one unit that handles all major crime, not officers who handle "petty crime". JIMO

Excellent point. I re-read the article after reading your post, and I noticed it says Major Crimes DETECTIVES are working on the case. It never says the Major Crimes Unit is handling it. I also notice in looking over the HCSO website, that the same (423) 209-8940 is listed as the contact number for several of the units. Also... the article linked is 4 months old. Do we really know what specific "unit" is handling it at this point? And did the unit in charge change over time?

(This is the article referenced: http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp)
 
I don't necessarily believe everything LE says to the public. I'm not saying they are lying, because they do not have to reveal everything to us. I think when they say, "We don't have any evidence that a crime was committed", what they may possibly mean is, "We don't have enough evidence that a crime was committed to prove it, make an arrest or name a suspect or POI". I am not convinced they have no evidence, just based on what has already been revealed. The Sheriff said they were planning an aerial search. That says a lot to me.
 
NCIC MP statistics for 2010:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010

692,944 people were entered in NCIC as missing in 2010. 62K were entered as missing in April. 355,243 total for the year were females who went missing.

Statistically speaking, it is far more likely that a missing person is either a runaway juvenile or voluntarily missing.

Look at those numbers compared to the number of detectives out there.

Resources are finite for these cases-Gail is blessed because not only is the media interested, HCSO has far larger resources to devote to her case than does SMPD.

For just adult females over 21 last year, there were 52,111. And those, of course, are just the ones reported, and who make it into the NCIC system.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010
 
I don't necessarily believe everything LE says to the public. I'm not saying they are lying, because they do not have to reveal everything to us. I think when they say, "We don't have any evidence that a crime was committed", what they may possibly mean is, "We don't have enough evidence that a crime was committed to prove it, make an arrest or name a suspect or POI". I am not convinced they have no evidence, just based on what has already been revealed. The Sheriff said they were planning an aerial search. That says a lot to me.

[bbm]

I'm having trouble drawing any particular conclusion from this. It seems to me that all statements are consistently noncommital. I think they are looking at all options. I sure hope they are. I think they owe her that.
 
[bbm]

I'm having trouble drawing any particular conclusion from this. It seems to me that all statements are consistently noncommital. I think they are looking at all options. I sure hope they are. I think they owe her that.

I definitely agree they should be looking at all options. I feel pretty sure that they have. I was addressing the foul play theory, though, in my post. I was trying to make the point that I feel sometimes one has to read between the lines. I don't believe LE always reveals everything they know to the public, nor should they. I suppose people could hear the Sheriff state that they are planning an aerial search and take that to mean that they could be looking for Gail's Jeep, where it may be obscured in the brush, if she was involved in an accident. I don't think that is what happened, so that is why I said, to me, it says a lot. To me, it says that LE does not believe Gail left her children on her own and is living a new life somewhere else. If they did believe that, I can't imagine why they would conduct an expensive search of that type. JMHO
 
Excellent point. I re-read the article after reading your post, and I noticed it says Major Crimes DETECTIVES are working on the case. It never says the Major Crimes Unit is handling it. I also notice in looking over the HCSO website, that the same (423) 209-8940 is listed as the contact number for several of the units. Also... the article linked is 4 months old. Do we really know what specific "unit" is handling it at this point? And did the unit in charge change over time?

(This is the article referenced: http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp)

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.... Perhaps that is the source of my confusion...
 
NCIC MP statistics for 2010:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nc...n-and-unidentified-person-statistics-for-2010

692,944 people were entered in NCIC as missing in 2010. 62K were entered as missing in April. 355,243 total for the year were females who went missing.

Statistically speaking, it is far more likely that a missing person is either a runaway juvenile or voluntarily missing.
Look at those numbers compared to the number of detectives out there.

Resources are finite for these cases-Gail is blessed because not only is the media interested, HCSO has far larger resources to devote to her case than does SMPD.


Wonder what the statistics are for domestic violence...And the number of women who have disappeared and vanished by the hands of their husbands or boyfriends..JMHO
 
I don't necessarily believe everything LE says to the public. I'm not saying they are lying, because they do not have to reveal everything to us. I think when they say, "We don't have any evidence that a crime was committed", what they may possibly mean is, "We don't have enough evidence that a crime was committed to prove it, make an arrest or name a suspect or POI". I am not convinced they have no evidence, just based on what has already been revealed. The Sheriff said they were planning an aerial search. That says a lot to me.

I don't see any reason why they would tell untruths...and as far as I know, they do not HAVE to reveal ANYTHING.

As for the aerial search, to me it says that Gail is still missing for whatever reason, but they are still looking for her. It doesn't seem to make any suggestion at all about evidence. Only that the leaves are coming down, and it would be a good time to look again.
 
For what it's worth, HCSO investigates domestic abuse via the Criminal Investigation Division.

http://www.hcsheriff.gov/cid/dv.asp


ETA: Here's part of the HCSO webpage on what victims should do. Hope it formats properly:

SAFETY IS OUR FIRST CONCERN.

The safety of victims and children is our greatest concern. We realize that danger increases when victims attempt to leave an abusive relationship.

When leaving, the victim should:

Know how to get a protective order.
Be aware of safe places where to go.
Place the following items with a trusted friend, relative or where the abuser cannot find them:
$50 or more in cash
Small bag with clothing for victim and children
Important papers such as:
Bank account numbers
Check book
Social Security number
Abuser’s date of birth / social security number
Insurance policies
Marriage license
Birth certificates for victim and children
Important phone numbers
Sentimental valuables
Medications
Extra house/car keys

DO NOT tell the abuser where the victim is going!
 
Responding to myself here: In looking at the things an abused wife should do, I see Gail did give money to people to hold for her, including her sister. But then the judge threw out DN and KN's paperwork apparently because Gail gave money to DN and it wasn't disclosed. It sounded like the attorneys and Councilor Black thought something hinky was going on because of those funds. So strange.
 
I don't see any reason why they would tell untruths...and as far as I know, they do not HAVE to reveal ANYTHING.

As for the aerial search, to me it says that Gail is still missing for whatever reason, but they are still looking for her. It doesn't seem to make any suggestion at all about evidence. Only that the leaves are coming down, and it would be a good time to look again.

I think we fairly closely agree. I wouldn't categorize it as untruths, just not saying everything. When I hear them say, "no evidence", I don't think that means they don't believe a crime was committed. That's just my opinion. They certainly don't have to reveal anything to the public, you are absolutely right. But, they have revealed some things and I just don't believe it is everything they have. And as I said, they shouldn't reveal everything. As for the aerial search, I agree it's a better time to look than during the summer because of the leaves. However, I can't understand why they would do it if they were convinced that Gail is living a life somewhere else and is voluntarily in hiding. It doesn't make sense to me. Some people might think it just means LE is keeping all options and theories open as possibilities, including foul play, and I agree. Definitely, all possibilities should be considered and investigated. I am just glad, according to that statement, that there will be some professional searches as there have been very few to this point. Searching for Gail is imperative. JMO
 
There is no doubt that Gail was planning to make her break from the marriage, after all people seem to forget she setup a new PO Box which I believe MP found out about. If it was a local PO Box then that would tell me that she was planning a divorce and not planning to split and leave her children behind. That's something for LE to consider when trying to figure out if she did leave on her own. I for one don't think she did leave on her own or her siblings would have heard from her by now. Sometimes its the little suttle things that are found that start to tell the story.
 
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